My H has been around A LOT!<P>He basically only sleeps at 'the spot.'<P>He told me today that he absolutely hates that I posts here. He doesn't want anybody to know anything about him...especially strangers and he does not want me to come here anymore.<P>Is this an LB or not? Should I quit IF HE HATES IT SO MUCH?

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by JustPlainCali:<BR><B><BR>He told me today that he absolutely hates that I posts here. He doesn't want anybody to know anything about him...especially strangers and he does not want me to come here anymore.<P>Is this an LB or not? Should I quit IF HE HATES IT SO MUCH?</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Wow......this sux! This is definitely a LB.....but only if you recognize the works of the Drs. Hartley and MB. Therefore, I have a feeling that you are more aware of this than your H. <P>If it totally blows his mind that you visit these boards, perhaps a compromise is in order. Inform him that you won't post about him specifically or put him on the spot and that he is more than welcome to read your posts. If this still gets his goat, then perhaps a better solution would be to take a hiatus from posting yet still continue read the post of others. And, if you wish to respond to a particular post, you could e-mail the person privately. And....if this still isn't good enough to satisfy his sensitive self-esteem....tell him all options are out of the question and continue as you've been doing....if it so pleases you....LOL! But, seriously, what is the ultimatum if you do not resist coming to this site?<P>I'd hate to see you go, but this will happen at some point in your life. And, hopefully, your disassociation will be due to frolicking in your wonderfully renewed marriage with your H.<P>I'm sure that there are many here who can give you better advise. I anticipate their posts......<P>------------------<BR><B>Time heals all wounds as long as you DON'T pick at them!</B><p>[This message has been edited by GeezLouise (edited July 10, 2001).]

More...he has a new internet account for his 'spot.' We went through the usual...I told you I made a new acct. I don't remember or recall this...conversation...with my being very careful to not play the old tapes...<P>anyway, I told him that it would be 'honest and open' of him to tell me and tell me his new screenname...he said he didn't want anyone to know because he was just going on to look for information not to converse with people...<P>that's when he went into stuff about me coming here.<P>Later, he seemed angry so I asked if something I did or said had made him angry....<P>He said this whole conversation had made him think of the 'trust' issue. "I told you I do not want to have to go through this rebuilding of trust stuff..." My whole thing about being 'honest and open'... He said I just don't want to go through it....it's understandable, but I just don't want to do it.<P>I said...<I>Your ambiguity about 'us' and whether or not we can 'rebuild' our marriage...if you are willing to or not is detering me from restoring trust...I am not saying I would never have issues of 'trust' but if you told me-positively-that we were moving forward and you were committing to our marriage--I believe that I could trust you. I wouldn't have some of these same doubts. </I><P>End...he didn't say anything more...<P>I still feel by the things he is saying and doing that he is still very much on the fence and he wants me to 'convince' him to come back....<P>Cali

I think GL has some good comments. I don't think it's a good idea to leave us, you NEED support!! I mean if you knew your H would be wonderful and you didn't need us, okay, but what's the possibility of that happening??<P>That's weird, the only person my H WANTS me to talk to is you guys. Because you DON'T know him. He doesn't want everyone we know to know what he's doing. Tell your H you need support from somewhere, how would he feel if everyone in your life knew of your problems??<P>LOL,<BR>HbH

My issue is this...<P>When a woman is asked, told, ordered, whatever, to cut communications with people, it isolates her.<P>I always see this kind of isolation as a form of abuse.<P>It narrows the information she gets to mostly what comes from him.<P>What would it matter what you say to who if you're happy? But the point is that you're not saying happy things?<P>And if you are unhappy and not posting, does it make the unhappiness go away or does it just make it less apparent? Why should it be made less apparent for any reason other than there are changes made that promote the true happiness and you no longer have need to post?<P>Is part of convincing him that he should come back that you lose your voice, or does it just seem that way to me?<P>

I thought a lot about this exact question after BellDandy left. This looks like such a similar situation. I'm not sure there is a perfect answer, but I have thoughts.<P>You're thinking about POJA aren't you? Don't forget that POJA applies to two people in recovery who've made a commitment to work on their Marriage together using Harley's four rules. You're not in recovery. <P>LibbyDoe has correctly pointed out, and I will too, that this place is very important for YOU. Until H commits to the M completely you MUST take care of yourself first.<P>After he commits, you two should be able to negotiate things like this (GL has good ideas). At that point you'll be able to find out what his REAL problem is. Maybe you will change the way you use MB at that time.<P>I'm not saying that he isn't honestly upset with you being here, but the real reason probably goes to the core of his anger (lack on control???? shame???? ????).<P>I don't know how you can stop coming here and remain sane. I think you just need to find some way to minimize the LB aspect. Maybe YOUR stance is that this is something you can negotiate in RECOVERY. <P>Please get more ideas on this point before you do anything rash (like leave)!!!<P>--Jeffers<BR>

Cali,<P>I can understand his feelings about you posting here. You have been forthright about many things and it sounds like he is having trouble owning up to his actions. And I wonder if he sees that you are growing and does not like this. Wants the old you back because that’s whom he is used to.<P>But I am very troubled when a spouse attempts to deny the other their support. Would he be willing for you to get a different form of support – like counseling? Is he willing to fork out the money for that? One thing that MB has over counseling is that it is available at almost any time you needed it. No waiting a week or two.<P>Asking you to give up posting here is sort of like asking you to give up some medication. Trying to isolate you is a form of abuse. As a matter of fact, one of the first things an abuser does is to try to cut their spouse off from any friends and support they have. I am not saying that your husband is an abuser, all I am saying is that isolation can cause a very unhealthy situation.<P>Your compromise is a good one. Just start doing it and invite him to lurk and read here. Remember to be totally honest and open with him. This should give him some comfort.<P>Z<BR><P>------------------<BR>He loves not who does not show love.<BR>----William Shakespeare

Cali,<BR>I don't have any words of wisdom for you about posting here or not as your H wishes (although I'm sure I know how much this helps YOU!). But one thing did pop out from your post & it's this:<P>"I still feel by the things he is saying and doing that he is still very much on the fence and he wants me to 'convince' him to come back...."<P>What are ya waitin' for? Still on the fence? Pull him off, towards you!<P>Now, I do have to admit. . I know a lot has been going on between you & your H lately, but I haven't been around too, much to read it all & know ALL the details, just some-so I hope that this doesn't go against anything that's happened lately. Just jumped right off the page at me though!

Well Cali,<P>Let me start by saying that my H said the same thing. I told him that this place was where I came to get support, part of the support I actually needed from him and that if could show his support of me and the family to me, then I could post less. <P>This was a challenge he chose not to take. But it became evident that is was just another excuse, reason to be angry at me and not heal in our marriage. I was willing to stop posting if our marriage could be saved, but H was not willing to even try. He accused me of exposing his life on the internet. Hm.....didn't he and OW already do that in many e-mails? On yes, they used initials instead of names, well I use initials and a nick name (Psyco Babble). <P>So this could be an LB. Why not stop posting about him and post about yourself or help others? Is he ok with that? How about not posting for let's say 2 weeks? You can e-mail some of us here? My e-mail is here. <P>Prove to him that you are willing to work on your marriage. Time will tell how true his statement was and how much it really bothers him.<P>Just my 2 cents. <P>L.<BR>

Hi Cali,<BR> So what would he say if you stopped coming here and went to Parents Without Partners for your support???????? Your sister is right on the money honey. He's trying to manipulate you. What does he really care what a bunch of strangers know about him? We don't know who in God's green earth he is!! A very good point was made POJA is for those in recovery. Someone who can't commit to a marriage is not afforded such a luxury. Do you have POJA on that he won't see OW anymore or look around for OW#2 while he's deciding whether or not he wants to be married. You need to be very careful about giving him too much influence in your life when he's moved out of your house and refuses to commit to the marriage or there won't be any consequences to him moving out. Please go back and read my other response to you on a thread of yours from a few weeks back about not making this separation too easy on him and letting him get away with murder or you maybe separated a lot longer than you wish.

Cali,<P>This is STL speaking through zorweb....<P>It's a love buster for him to ask.<P>STL (via Z)<P>------------------<BR>He loves not who does not show love.<BR>----William Shakespeare

Well my 2 cents for what it is worth. Is another test, he knows he has no legitimate reason to tell you not to post, if you aquiesce you are telling him you will "do" anything, therefore you are being manipulative (and weak). He doesn't mind your strength, he likes it, he just doesn't want you telling him what to do. Here he is telling you what to do, tell him to take a flying leap. He will appreciate your honesty your strength is one of the things he admires.<P>btw, quit (do I sound like a broken record) asking him stuff, like screen names and such, it just feels controlling. Might say, hey H, do what you want, but I would like to know your screen name if you feel like it, so I can follow your stuff, but it is totally up to you. You let him know you are interested in him (important) but you are not um......smothering him, or convincing him. Your toughest task is not to debate with him in any way. As for sitting on the fence, sure he is, leave him be, he will get off when he is ready, I disagree he wants to be pulled off, he is watching you very very closely.<P>and H if you are reading this soap opera, I am just trying to educate these fog shrouded bs's, not trying to horn in on your life, so don't mind me. btw, she seems to be trying really hard, if my opinion is of any value. Don't push too hard or too long, otherwise you may just end up on the outside looking in...permanently, be sure that is ok before you go there, this is a serious business.<P>[This message has been edited by sad_n_lonely (edited July 10, 2001).]<p>[This message has been edited by sad_n_lonely (edited July 10, 2001).]

From the "horse's mouth"...Dr.Harley says:<P>"One of the most common smoke-screens used by unfaithful spouses is to express shock that their spouse would be so distrusting as to ask questions about their secret second life. They try to make it seem as if such questions are an affront to their dignity, and a sign of incredible disrespect. They figure that the best defense is a good offense, and so <B>they try to make their spouses feel guilty about asking too many questions.</B> <P>I am a firm believer in letting each spouse do as much snooping around as they want. Nothing should be kept secret in marriage, and no questions should be left unanswered. If a spouse objects to such scrutiny, what might he or she be hiding? <P>Another type of clue is records of communication such as telephone records, letters and e-mail. Most affairs depend on repeated contacts and evidence of those contacts can usually be found"...<P>He goes on to say: <P>..."It's not only patronizing, but it's also false to assume that the betrayed spouse cannot bear to hear the truth. Illusions do not make us happy, they cause us to wander through life, bumping into barriers that are invisible to us because of the illusion that is created. Truth, on the other hand, reveals those barriers, and sheds light on them so that we can see well enough to overcome them. The unsuspecting spouse of an unfaithful husband or wife wonders why their marriage is not more fulfilling and more intimate. Knowledge of an affair would make it clear why all efforts have failed. <P>After revealing an affair, your (betrayed) spouse will no longer trust you. <B>But lack of trust does not ruin a marriage, it's the lack of care and protection that ruins marriages.</B> Your spouse should not trust you, and the sooner your spouse realizes it, the better." <P>---------------------------------------<P>Dear Cali: Now, as much as we'd all like our WS's to *see the light*, I learned that it's next to impossible to try to "educate" them BEFORE they are ready to do the homework.<P>So, the best I can offer you is to post some of Dr. Harley's *magic* that I'm hoping will bring you comfort. And, by supporting you in posting here: Don't feel guilty about being here!!!! <P>Peace, ~Marie<P><P>------------------<BR>I tell you the truth, if you have faith as small as a mustard seed, you can say to this mountain, 'Move from here to there' and it will move. <P>The Bible<BR>Matthew 17:20

Thanks everyone...<P>GLouise...I told him that for the most part, lately, I am just posting to people as replies...and that if it would make him feel better, I wouldn't post about him....he said he really didn't care as he wasn't going to come here to read them anyway...(flip/flop).<P>HbH...that's also part of what I said...don't I get some support?<P>LibbyDoe...I know...can you even believe the stuff that comes out of his mouth now? He'd say to anyone else whose H had done this to them, that they should tell him to take a flying leap...<P>Yep, Jeffers...POJA was exactly what I was thinking of... and you are right...we aren't there yet...but I feel the need to do something as a 'proof' of faith...(like I've done nothing so far ...)<P>Z, mthrr, and STL...yep...he lovebusts a lot! (can we say sarcasm, rolling of eyes, twisting of mouth, crappy attitude?) I am 'trying' to hard...I am making it too 'easy' on him...it has been hitting me square between the eyes the last couple of days...how much work I am doing...the fact he can acknowledge the changes I've been making on the one hand, and then dismiss them so easily on the other hand...the fact he can just say "I don't want to do the work to rebuild trust...I don't want to be attached to anybody..." GRRRRRR.<P>bitsy...If I knew how to pull him off the fence, I'd do it...it's just a feeling based on his actions (being around a lot...though he'd probably say it was to be with the boys) and his words (see I told you this trust thing would come up...I just don't want to go through it...)Like if I could wave a magic want and there would be not repercussions for what he did, he would stay...just my <I> feeling...woman's intuition, if you will...</I><P>SnL...I am posting with him on the couch in full view of the computer...is that like telling him to take a 'flying leap?' BTW...I did not 'fish' for his screenname...he mentioned he was on Internet last night and since I was on too, I asked how since we 'share' an AOL acct. that's when he told me about creating a new acct. I asked if I could have his screenname so that we could IM each other and that's when this all started....<P>Marie...yeah...I was reading about that, too...That was my point to him...I also said that if I knew he was 100% committed to marriage and rebuilding, I wouldn't have as many 'trust' issues...I couldn't promise NO trust issues...but the ambiguity of our situation just magnifies my insecurities.<P>Hugs,<BR>Cali