I'm still having a lot of problems getting into the MB website, and it's still painfully slow when I do get in So I apologise for not being able to join in as much as I used to - but you are always in my thoughts and prayers and I am still lighting candles for you.<P>I've now been in Plan B since last Thursday evening - and today I got an e-mail from my WH - here it is:<P><BR>Hi (Paint),<BR>I think we better start to make some firmer decisions as to what we intend to do. I’m not prepared to be left in limbo, not able to contact the kids etc. I would rather attempt to come to a firm decision one way or the other, if we can’t even attempt that process, then maybe I should just file divorce and try and get my life going again.<BR> However, I cannot put my hand on my heart and say I absolutely want a divorce right now, I’m not that certain. Still, there are so many issues, that need airing and resolving I don’t know where to begin, and they are going to be difficult to bring up and for us still to stay calm and not get upset, and there could be issues I’m not even aware of. Yes, I have thought about a marriage councilor, but it’s still going to have the same effect of bring up conflict. <BR> I suggest this - lets meet in the evening, not at the house or flat. Can you get a baby sitter? Lets lay down the issues, maybe we can’t get at them all on our own. Then lets see whether it’s worth getting a councilor involved, whether we can resolve them ourselves, or whether there is just no way.<BR> And this is not just about me and what I want, this is about you too and what you want, and we have to be honest and open minded. Another words you have to be prepared for both outcomes to be a possibility, as do I.<BR> I am sick and tired of feeling like this, and I have decided I am going to get my life going forward, one way or another!<BR>Let me know your thoughts<BR>(WH)<P><BR>I also got 22 'messages' on my answering machine - all of them blank except for the last one, which was WH saying 'I've been trying to contact you all day, please call or e-mail me'...<P>I called him back this evening and we spent 3 hours on the telephone discussing our relationship. I was calm the whole time and didn't LB once - but I was also very firm about what I wanted, and that a lot of things would have to change, on both sides, in our relationship. He agreed with most of what I had to say and we are going to try and meet for dinner on Friday evening (if I can get babysitters!). <P>He wants us to write down all the issues that need addressing in our marriage, then he says we can go through them one-by-one and see if we think they either can or can't be resolved. His main issue, and the one he is most negative about, is that he needs and wants romance in his life again - he has discovered that he can be very romantic and tender with OW, but he can't at the moment feel that way with me. Sure, he can go through the motions, but there would be no meaning behind it. OW is continuing to work on her own marriage. He is not sure that he can ever feel 'in love' with me again, or spend the rest of his life with me - and he needs to resolve those issues because otherwise he says 'It will just happen all over again'. He agrees that it's mostly a problem within himself, and he also accepts certain things he has done in the past that has unintentionally 'moulded me into something he doesn't want'. <P>I'm a little bit hopeful....but don't want to rush into this. I'm very wary of being hurt all over again, and to be honest I've got so used to the 'freedom' of living without him that I'm quite enjoying it! He has some drastic 'Mid-Life-Crisis' ideas for the future, that will effect the standard of living he has worked so hard to achieve for the past 20 years. I'm wary that these ideas will turn out to be a big mistake too, but at the moment am trying to be supportive. <P>He's still contradicting himself at nearly every sentence - alien speak/fog - is still very much there. For example, one minute he was saying "I want to sell the house, it's much too big and I want somewhere more cosy and simple", then the next minute he's saying "I get annoyed when the kids invade my space with their toys" and "I never had a room to call my own personal place" (How getting a smaller house is going to help, only someone with moose brain worms would understand!).<P>Anyway, would appreciate thoughts and comments - especially on the content of his e-mail to me. Oh, and by-the-way, he said that it wasn't the 'no contact' that was bothering him.....(oh yeah?).<P>love and hugs, Paint.<P> <BR>

Wow Paint,<P>I am stil up here and glad GQII is up. I really needed it tonight (oh yea every night lately). ha ha....<P>Your H's letter does sound hopeful. Me, I would want to jump at it but you know me I am a deprived woman with an H that doesn't know up from down at this moment. <P>You are right to keep your ground. Your H is still in the fog yet he is seeing that the oW is not for him. How long will that thinking last? Can you live with some waffling? I hope he stays in the mindset of the letter. <P>Now after his letter and talk, what action do you expect to see and he expects to do? That's where the real test of your restoring your marriage comes in. Sometimes that effort wears out quickly. <P>You have my prayers and support. <P>L.

It sounds like your husband has been doing a lot of thinking and he is reaching a point where he realizes his life is going nowhere and wants to act.<P>He wants to work on things and come to an agreement with you. Now is the time for you to start really pondering your life's goals and priorities and write them down on paper so you both can discuss.<P>Make up your mind that you will have a civilized conversation and be objective (no getting upset, listening, not interrupting, not assuming or finishing his sentences in your mind, no yelling, NO crying). Being prepared in writing will help you keep your thoughts clear on the day of the meeting.<P>In the meantime HIRE A SITTER! And let him pay for it! It's a worthy investment.

Paint, <P>This could be good news. Wow!<P>I have an idea to throw out to you. <P>If you do compile your list of issues, why not put them in a MB format. What I mean is to list the ENs and then which issues fall under which ENs. That will start getting the MB concepts out there and on the table.<P>Z<P>------------------<BR>He loves not who does not show love.<BR>----William Shakespeare

Good idea Zorweb - in fact I have the whole gamut of questionairres printed out from months ago. I already mentioned the book 'His Needs, Her Needs' to him last night.<BR>I'll go through the questionairres myself in order to check what my own needs are, and how important each is, then see if he takes an interest in them....<P>He's still in the fog somewhat, because he wants to carry on as 'friends' with the OW, (his reasoning being that it only got physical once and they have remained 'friends' for the past 3 months...). He still doesn't understand what an EA is..... I'm not going to push it just yet, I need to get him to agree to counselling first and make some headway there - hopefully the counsellor will do that bit of dirty work for me! I'd like for him (and us), to talk to Steve Harley - but don't know if he would agree to that yet, or if he's ready to hear some home truths about his affair?<P>Best wishes, Paint.

Hi Paint. I thought you were in plan B? (I'm one to talk, huh?)... <smirk><P>That's great that your H seems to be coming around. If you don't get anywhere on Friday, go back to plan B, only this time be sure he knows what he needs to do to get YOU back.<P>I actually had this same type of talk with my H when I first broke plan B, not sure if you remember... It looked promising, but no headway. I went back to plan B again (OW left the next week - hmmm was it because I had broke plan B and filled some of H's needs?? I think it had something to do with it), then I broke it a 2nd time, this time with him agreeing to reconciliation. Now I'm not in plan B anymore, but it is slow going...<P>I think these talks can be good, but I have to warn you, it is VERY difficult to go back and forth, don't do it unless you can handle it. You have to start plan B all over from scratch and it hurts. You miss your H, you have hope now, you don't really want to be in plan B, but you now you have to... Also, depending on your H, plan B could lose some of it's effect if you do this. It's hard, do what you feel is right. it is much easier just to stay in plan B and not break it at all...<P>good luck on Friday, I hope everything goes well for you. LOL!<P>HbH

Hey Paint...<P>I missed you too. I was thinking about you yesterday and was so mad I couldn't get on GQ to ask how you were...<P>Sounds like things are moving forward for you...that's what I keep focusing on with H...how to move forward...<P>I don't want to go backwards and I don't want to stand still...<P>Just remember babysteps and GO SLOW...put one idea at a time out there and see where your H takes it...<P>Hugs and Prayers,<P>Cali

Good work, Paint. A big ditto to Z's suggestion. Maybe give him a copy of SAA?<P>Also, what did he commit to as far as the "no contact" is concerned? This should be your most important condition. Without this, talking about ENs, etc. may be futile.<P>WAT

Well, Paint, it's obvious you have gotten his attention anyway...that alone is sometimes an accomplishment while they are in the "fog". He's making all the right sounds and if he's for real then you need to be prepared to handle this talk on Friday so that you can start getting things headed in the right direction. <P>This will probably involve a lot of restraint on your part...because he's may still say things that have the potential to upset you very badly. But if he's willing to meet you half-way then you have a chance...if you don't let your emotions get the upper hand and LB. As you've discussed...go into this meeting prepared...especially prepared to deal with the "not in love with you and don't know if I will ever be again" scenerio. That's a real sticking point and right now probably just needs to be addressed with an understanding accepting heart...because it's not something that can be fixed overnight. But you must get at least an agreement to some kind of plan to get things back on tract...even if very slowly...or I would go back to Plan B until he is ready to commit. Don't settle for limbo to continue...especially with OW still in picture. <P>I think you can do it...and my best wishes go with you.<P>Faye

Hi there again,<P>I just found out that WH called his sister this morning and told her about our conversation last night - she says that she feels hopeful for us for the first time and that he sounded much more positive <P>HurtbyHubby - I actually found it quite easy to go into Plan B, I think because he's already living apart from me, it wasn't such a shock to the system. I felt....relief...more than anything, that I could just relax now, rest and refocus myself. I will go straight back to Plan B if things don't work out, I feel strong enough to live without him now, if necessary.<P>Cali - we'll both get there eventually! It's good to see some of our efforts and plans starting to work - it gives you renewed faith in the Harley principles.<P>WAT - He hasn't agreed to 'no contact' with the OW - and that is something that will be a big issue for me. He's taken a step forward and I don't want to push him back again at this stage, so I've not made any comment on this - but from what he says, she is planning to move away from the area anyway. I am very, very aware that him being in contact with her poses a very great risk, and I'm prepared to go straight back to Plan B if and when necessary. I'm treading carefully with my eyes wide open. I don't think he would accept that demand from me as he's still unsure about whether he really wants to give our marriage a go - but hopefully would listen to what a counsellor had to say about it. I have to get him to the counsellor as the first step, then deal with the other issues. <P>Buffy - I've heard so many hurtful things that I think I'm fairly immune to them now....Nothing could compare to what he put me through the night of d-day and the week after - and now he admits that was the one night he slept with her! To say I've been through hell is an understatement, and I survived that, so I reckon I can survive anything now! I'm prepared, I know I am. The truth is finally coming out and it's just disgusting - I know now why he says he 'hates himself'...<P>hugs, Paint.<P>

Paint,<BR> I'm so excited for you! I don't think I've ever posted directly to you before, but I've certainly read your story, and prayed for you.<BR> It gives ALL of us hope when we hear about "baby steps" being taken. Oh, the BIG stories of 1 year in recovery, 2 years in recovery, etc. are fine and wonderful to read about, but when your WS is GONE and you don't know when or IF you will ever hear from them, hearing about one who is making *small* steps toward home is truly encouraging and exciting! It makes us all believe ours will come around, too, that they all are pretty much on the same script, just different time tables.<BR> I will continue to pray for your recovery and for your H who is still so fog-bound and confused right now. Remember the words of [H] - "Confusion is good. It means the fog is lifting."<BR>Lupo