Nellie,<BR> If you feel someone is posting dishonestly, why don't you just ignore the post? Interrogating a liar will only inflame them, not prevent them from posting more. Why add fuel to something you don't thing should be burning in the first place?<BR> If the person is not lying, you are doing them a severe disservice by drilling them over typos/misspoken statements that they may have made due to lack of sleep, lots of stress, anger, etc.<BR> In any case, though I don't want to "pick on you," you don't seem to be doing anything constructive in this post. What are you trying to accomplish in this post? It seems to me that you aren't accomplishing anything other than confusing the situation.<BR> Why don't you let other posters determine for themselves whether or not a post is an honest post. We're adults, and can probably sort out the "poop" from the good stuff, all on our own.

You seem to be reading things into my posts that are not there. I never implied that you were an OW. <P>No, it is you that I am angry at, and others who feel they must resort to name-calling to justify their position. <P>And I am angry at those who interfere with attempts for a family to come together again. It sounds to me like the ex-wife is trying to do the right thing, by extricating herself from a relationship with a man who was apparently her affair partner.<P>I feel very strongly that when there are children involved, if an opportunity for possible reconciliation occurs, the decent, as well as sensible, thing for a new gf/bf to do is to step aside so as to maximize the possibility. It's not like you'd been married for 10 years when the possibility or reconciliation arose. <P>One possible reason that some posters lie, or leave out relevant details, is that they wish to get support for whatever it is they want to do, regardless of what the truth of the matter is. Or they don't want to portray themselves in a negative light. Or they want to give the people here who are standing for their marriages a hard time. Why do people make up imaginary identities? Who knows - there are a thousand reasons. <P>I did note that much of what you have said that the ex-wife said you apparently heard second-hand, which reduces accuracy in the best of circumstances. And I won't even comment on the trust I put in statements made by lawyers....<P>I think it is a mistake to marry someone who hates your ex-spouse. No matter how hard they try, they will not be able to hide the hatred from the children, in the tone of their voice, in the tensing of their muscles when the subject comes up, etc. A new spouse who hates the ex-spouse can not work effectively with him or her for the benefit of the children. And I see a lot of hatred in your posts. Whether or not it is justified is irrelevant. <P>I think it is a mistake for a new partner to EVER criticize the ex-spouse, just as it is a mistake to criticize your spouses' parents. On another board, I was reading a post by a divorced man who commented that if someone he was dating started criticizing his ex-wife, he dropped them like a hot potato. At the very least it causes a build-up of resentment.<P>I think it is a mistake to try to tell your spouse how much contact he can have with someone. Even in cases where it involves an OW, I don't think it is effective to insist on no contact - it has to be up to the H. Lori (Lostva) has commented on this in regard to her H. <P>JustLearning said,<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>If you have no way of knowing and you are unwilling to accept what someone posts here, then why do your respond? You are not helping anyone here lecturing a woman who has<BR>inherited the children of a woman that did not want them.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>I am unwilling to accept what someone posts when the facts don't add up. She did not "inherit" this child - I assume she knew what she was getting into. And it sure doesn't seem to me that the ex-wife in this case doesn't "want" her child. <P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>If that is not the case, then all advice is meaningless anyway. If it is the case, then the advice should be something more useful than essentially; go back and rewrite history. Which is by the way what you are telling her.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>I am totally confused by this paragraph. Could you please explain what you mean?<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>I am aware of your history and I realize you still carry a great deal of anger, especially toward men and apparently second wives even if they had nothing to do with the previous marriage. I also realize you feel no one should remarry on the off chance that the WS may come to their senses. But that last thing requires that the BS would ever want to be married to them again.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>I am not angry at men in general, nor at second wives. However, when second wives do anything to interfere with the relationship between a father and his children, that is TERRIBLY wrong. And doing anything to interfere with a man communicating with the mother of his children certainly falls in that category.<P>When did I ever say that no one should remarry on the "off-chance" that the WS comes to his senses? And why, btw, is it an "off-chance" - the Harleys certainly don't think so. I think it is a terrible mistake to date/remarry too soon. Many people do choose to stand for their marriage, and there is nothing wrong with that. Even if the BS does not choose to do that, it is a mistake to date/re-marry too soon - and I think "too soon" includes at least a couple of years after the divorce. <P><BR>

There are typos and there are typos. Typos like leaving out words like "not" certainly happen, but I find these particular discrepancies hard to believe. And if my pointing out discrepancies in posts bothers you, you can just ignore it if you want to.<P>Research has shown that the quality of a relationship between a father and his children after divorce is largely dependent on what the second wife/gf allows, whether she is an OW or not. Her trying to limit her H's contact with his ex-wife benefits no one but herself, and will seriously damage the ability of the child's parents to co-parent. <P> <P>

Nellie,<P>You were lecturing this woman about marrying her H, and being in the way of reconcilliation. However you continually seem to neglect that she said that the exW had married a year before their meeting. <P>I would suggest that while it is possible, it is highly unlikely that the H and exW are going to get together since the exW is now married to someone else.<P>As for the paragraph you didn't understand, allow me to rephrase it.<P>Quite simply, if a person is lying here, the our advice will be meaningless. So it makes no sense to question the truth of what is being said. Therefore, it is best to treat the statements as true when giving someone advice. <P>If you don't believe they are true, then why bother to respond to them. If you are confused, then ask for clarification, but why don't you do that before unloading on her as you did.<P>As for keeping exW from children that wasn't the post here. It was to decide if her H sleeping with exW while commited to her, and while exW was married to another man, was something she should be worried about. Further, how worried she should be and how much should she address the issue of the H having little contact with OW (she is the OW now, Nellie no matter how convoluted your logic is). All of this is wrapped up with he acknowledgement that exW should see her child.<P>This is a complex issue, and not really very addressable by: your the W and H will always be W and H because they have children, even if both are remarried approach. <P>Quite frankly the exW sounds loony to me. She walked away and gave up custody to her H. While I am a male and think more men should have custody, it makes me wonder when either parent doesn't want their children.<P>So lets get back to the initial issue of hlcdlc's H having contact with exW, with whom he had an affair. He did after all since exW was already married to another man.<P>God Bless,<P>JL<p>[This message has been edited by Just Learning (edited July 16, 2001).]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>it is highly unlikely that the H and exW are going to get together since the exW is now married to someone else.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Not for much longer, according to hlcdlc has said. <P>I did ask for clarification. Unfortunately, the clarification wasn't very clarifying, since it seemed to conflict with another statement she had made. <P>There have been many cases where I read something on this board that I found hard to believe, but I said nothing because I had no evidence one way or the other. However, when people's posts are inconsistent as to facts, I am going to point that out. <P>Actually, the H was not a WS, since he was not married at the time. Assuming that the ex-wife married her affair partner, I do not consider that marriage morally valid, so that in reality she was not a WS and he was not an OM. <P>I don't think we can assume that the ex-wife gave up custody because she did not want the child. Perhaps she gave up custody so she could get treatment for alcoholism or gambling, or perhaps she was overwhelmed by depression - we have no way of knowing, but I don't think we should jump to the conclusion that she doesn't want her child. <P>Let's say two people get divorced and later marry people whom were not affair partners. Let's say the ex-spouses have an affair. I still say that no contact CAN NOT apply in this circumstance, because they are inextricably linked by the common bond of their child, and NEED to have a special, close relationship. Yes, there is always the risk that that relationship will become sexual, but that's the risk you take when you marry someone with kids. If you don't want to accept that risk, then you shouldn't marry a parent. <BR>

Nellie,<P>Then I take it you have no more to offer hlcdlc. She should not have married a divorced man.<P>Oh well!<P>I do hope your pain heals with time.<P>God Bless,<P>JL

No, I do not think she should have married a divorced man who had already demonstrated that he was still interested in having a sexual relationship with his ex-wife while seeing her. I think that that is just asking for trouble. <P>

Nellie,<P>It's a little too late! HLCDLC is married to this man, and apparently cares enough to get other opinions from this board regarding their situation. Including yours! She is trying her best to handle this matter appropriately. There are some valid concerns that were brought up. She can take it from here now, and make a better choice.

JL, Haloheart:<P>Thank you for your support. The level of contact is my worry, although to be honest as time goes by, the less I worry about the possibility of anything EVER happening between the ex and my H. If he was a BS, he was unaware of it until after the divorce, and did not want her back in any case (or he would not have married me). We go to court this afternoon on the custody suit--as she is still gambling (has never sought help), and is continually late in picking/dropping off situations because she is at the casino, so I don't think we have much to worry about. She herself is alienating my H more than anything I could ever say to him.<P>I do NOT ever say anything negative about the child's mother to her or in front of her; I am divorced from my children's father and I know the importance of maintaining positive relationships with all parents involved. I knew I was inheriting this child; I love her dearly and have no problem with that. She adores me and my children. But her mother bad mouthes us, and makes the child feel incredibly torn because she loves us too. I want her to have a good relationship with her mother, but at least right now, it seems her mother is incapable of pulling her weight in that regard. She needs help; she is unwilling to get any. We have offered to get her help; she refuses and insists she 'has it under control'. <P>Must run; my stepdaughter wants some waffles for breakfast. Thanks again to those of you who have tried to help and defend me. Nellie must have been through (or continues to go through) a rough experience.

Oh, and you may not consider my H's ex-wife's marriage MORALLY valid, but it is certainly LEGALLY valid, and I'm willing to bet her new Husband finds it morally valid!!