What does it mean when the OW's husband starts talking very very frequently with me. My H is the WS and starting having an A, as in my other posts. Now the OW's H knows about her A as well. OWH works out of town for weeks at a time. That made it even easier for OW to stray to my H. But enough of that. Now her H is calling me on a daily basis, and we talk for 2-3 hours at a time, like from midnight to 2:30am. We listen to each others stories about our WS, and how we feel and have been taken by the situation. He has since offered to help me financially, but he says only if I do not ever take my H back. He has made it clear to his W that divorce is the only way. He says there is no chance of reconciliation. He will be working out of town for 8 months straight starting next month, he offered his W about 2 weeks ago, for her and three kids to move with him and she did not have to work. He said she stuttered at the idea and never answered him, so he said okay, divorce is the only thing left in his book. Now my H has a clue that OWH has offered financial support where my H has given my zero. My H does not like the idea, although had not totally comfronted me with the knowledge of it, but has sortof brought it up. I just denied it. OWH has told me that he enjoys my company in conversation, says he wants to see me, for dinner, dance, so forth, but what becomes of this? Why are these feeling there? Is it an Emotional need we are filling with each other on our part, because we communicate with each other as betrayed spouses, I don't get it. He calls me during work and tells me he's thinking about me and can't stop. Last night he asked me what is becoming of us talking? He said he even told his Aunt that he was talking to me? I told him I don't have that answer, because to me it isn't nothing, or I think its nothing. My feelings are really screwed up right now, I think he is filling the gap that my husband has left. Although I was under the impression that he was listening to me and knew what I was going through and vice versa. How should I read into this? Although I like the attention I get from him since that part of my life is empty. I have no contact with my H, just when he calls for our daughter. I still cry after I see my H, especially when I see him up close, because he has no shame and has so called "passion marks" on his neck, from, of course, the OW. Gosh, it hurts so bad. But need some imput on this other situation with OWH? and what should I do about it? There is also another Man besides OWH. this OP, has come into my life when my H left me the 2nd time and now again the 3rd time. He tells me I should not go through this and just to leave H. He too, this other man, has filled a void in my life since all this ordeal. Send me roses and calls me, not as frequent as OWH, but everynow and then. Am I too, like my H, and having, or starting an A. Am I doing it for revenge. I don't know. It is the attention that throws me off. Need Help, quick!!!<P>[This message has been edited by stranger under same roof (edited July 13, 2001).]<p>[This message has been edited by stranger under same roof (edited July 13, 2001).]

Stranger, I think you know what's going on here. <P>If you want to work on your marriage, you need to stop your involvement with OWH. If something is to become of you two, then it can happen AFTER you've done everything to work on your marriage, you are over your H, AND you are ready to start dating. Now is not the time.<P>Yes, you are exactly right, OWH is meeting your EN's now that your H is not. You are vulnerable and you will start to have strong feelings for OWH if you do not end it now. Affairs can happen to anyone, if given the right circumstances, yes, even you, even me.<P>Just simply tell him that while you enjoy discussing things with him and all the attention, it appears as though your relationship is becoming more than just "friendship" and you cannot handle that right now. You need to distance yourself from him so you can deal with your H right now.<P>Good luck stranger. LOL,<BR>HbH

UM Okay bear with mne, but in reading it i saw only one thing in my head. The OWH is willing to help you AS LONG AS YOU DO NOT TAKE YOUR H BACK. He calls you and is in fact sort of Courting you during a time where you need validation of your worth. Could he be trying to destroy your marriage to pieces and this is for revenge. Sort of like your H destoyed his so now he has to do it back. And i think that him wanting to see you for dinner, dancing, and for that matter talking to you until 2 am is really innappropriate. I would tread carefully with this, something seems squirrly<BR>Maine<P>------------------<BR>IN the words of BOB the BUILDER!!" WE can fix it, yes we can!!!"

Stranger you r getting yourself into an emotional affair. And the fact that you lied to your H is the same thing as your H lying to you about his affair. And from the sounds of it, this OW's H only wants to sleep with you to get revenge on your H. Your H slept/is sleeping with his wife, and he wants to be able to say that he is shagging his wife too. Sounds like he may be using you to get over his bruised male ego. But he is definitely taking advantage of you since u are in such a needy state. Yes the attention is nice, but your headed for disaster if this continues.

What are you? Hired help? I read what you wrote as VERY bad. He'll pay you money if you'll do what he says. Is that controlling, or what? DON'T FALL INTO HIS FOG!!!<P>You at least need to have OWH and the OM out of your life completely right now, just to decide if you want to try again for your marriage. I don't know how long that would take, but by keeping in contact with them, you'll only end up waffling, just like your H is doing.<P>How fair is any of this to your daughter? Put her first for now, and think of what would truly be best for her. (is it to have mum dating other men? is it for mum and dad to be back together again? ).<P>Getting flowers from someone, and getting their undying attention.. how wonderful that is!! It is so easy to fall for someone when they can give you those things that you need. But would you rather be getting that from your H? If the answer is yes, then you know exactly what you need to do.<P>Be careful! And go with your gut feelings! They rarely lie to us!<P>Karen<BR>

Dear HBH: Yes your are right, I need to concentrate on working things out with my H right now. It is just so hard, it already seems like it is over. H treats me like crap sometimes. One day H is very nice an civil with me and other days he is rude, cold and ugly with me. Just like a rollercoaster as every one describes. It just confuses me, because it makes me want to stop trying. He doesn't seem to care about me anymore. So it makes me wonder. But I also read on the posts, that he is in the FOG, he is still drinking. But yet, it is so hard to put up with the knowledge of him still seeing and sleeping with this OW and all the other women as well. I have respect for myself and do not do anything. The only activities my life consists of is work, my daughter's baseball practice and home. Sometimes me and my daughter will go to my mom's house or a friends house to visit, but that is basically it. My friends ask me to go out dancing and stuff, I tried it one day last week and I just ended up telling myself that I was not ready for that. So I haven't gone out since. But I do think about it. Am I wrong to feel that I deserve to go out and have some fun! But yet I also do not go, because this is a fairly small town, I might run into H out in the clubs and stuff, so I stay away. As for the OWH, how do I back off, or tell him to step back, even that seems hard for me, especially taking it that we are filling each others ENs, I will feel like i am abandoning him or vice versa. I guess I just need to say to him, talking friends only?? or stop all contact?

Stranger, you need to stop all contact, you are in over your head. Yes, it will be hard, but it is something you must do. You are not ready for this right now.<P>I don't necessarily think this guy is out to get you, but the timing is just wrong. Trying is right, you are starting to get into an EA. You know that is wrong, regardless of what your H has done to you. Yes, it feels good, why do you think affairs happen in the first place to WS's?? Now, at least you can understand the feelings your H has for OW and why it may be so difficult for HIM to let go. You are beginning your own version of the fog with OWH, you may not see it, but we do.<P>The same thing we've been saying about WS's applies to you right now. End the relationship with OWH, work on your marriage. Yes, get out and have some fun!! But just don't do it with OWH, or other men that will meet your EN's!<P>There may be a time and place for other men to start meeting your EN's. Now is not that time.<P>Good luck. <BR>HbH

Thanks to all for your input: I see a totally different perspective. I know I don't want nothing with OWH, his ego is bruised and your right. He wants to be able to tell my H that he had his wife, if it got to that point. Good thing he is out of town. Get rid of that problem and temptation real quick. Okay, so I get rid of the male sexes in my life at the time, including my H. Just wait and time will tell. Patience is a virtue, is that what they say. Absence makes a heart grow fonder, {or further apart}. So okay, deep in my heart I know talking to OWH is not good, it would upset my H very much. And yes I lied to H about talking to him because I didn't want H to be upset at me. But gosh, it is so hard because, I know what H is doing and I just swallow it all. I don't talk about any of the situations with him and OW, but yet H knows that I know, and all is out in the open, so while he continues with his life with her in it, it continues without my life in his basically. I wonder, does he still think about me?! Thanks for your advise. It was very very helpful, I needed that rock to hit my head. Put me straight in gear again. It is so strange how someone else filling your EN can become so overtaking. I guess I know now how H got in this situation with OW. It is just so overwhelming and makes you feel so ??????????????????? unexplainable. But I still don't get it, and I'm sure everyone gets tired of hearing this. But how can someone like me, BS, deal with WS and OW and other women and hearing plans from WS that he is going on with his life as a single person, without me in it, and find hope at the end of the tunnel, especially after the emotional rollercoaster we have to deal with. It just almost always seem like there is no hope, especially when I need to see that there is on his part!

Another situation I need help on: Next week, from Wednesday thru Sunday, my daughter will be playing in a baseball tournament, it is a 7-8 hour drive. My son will be back from his summer with his father, my EX. My H wants to hitch a ride with us to this tournament, since that drive is a lot for one person, he says he will help me with the drive and expenses to travel with her. Staying in same hotel room, what should I do, how should I read into this? This brings up OW and OWH, because she will call him all week long on H cell phone, and OWH will be in this same town I will be in. Of course I know how to handle the situation with OWH, step back, now OW and my H; me and my H and kids, what do I say to him, do I talk about us, OW and whats up? Or just take it day by day, and enjoy each other's company, and after the week is over go back to our usualy and customary away from each other's life?

IMO, your hope is your daughter. So long as your H comes over to see her, you have your opportunity to plan A. <P>The hard part is getting on with YOUR life right now. Think about it.. if you're still doing the same old same old, what changes can your H see that would turn his head? (in a GOOD way, towards YOU). <P>What little things have you been wanting to do for a while now? Something as simple as repainting some rooms? (the bathroom is a small, easy, good start). How about any other projects around your house? Do you have some photos you need to arrange? How about rearranging the furniture?<P>I am only suggesting those things, because you sound like you really aren't ready to get out of the house. I can understand that, and relate to it all too well. I'm sure you can think of some things that you've been putting off for a while, and then get to them! <P>Take care,<BR>Karen<BR>

Your right. There are lots of things I have been wantind done to my house, and they never got done because H never wanted to. That is a great idea. Bathroom sounds good. Furniture movement sound even better. Something different that doesn't seem like my H is still there. Everything has been left as is. Even locks are still the same. H still has keys. Now that my son is coming back home after summer vacation, I think my days will be a little more filled. Not only with my daughter, but with my son as well. Homework, dinner and TV. Sound good. No I don't think I ready to get out of the house. OR maybe I just need that little push from my friends. Don't quite sure know. Another questions, my contact with MIL is very daily. It is like an update session on H and OW; and myself. Is this healthy? If there should be no contact with H, is it the same with MIL, since she is like the info gap to H and my world!! HHMMMMM. So what are some suggested conversation starters for this 4-day trip with H and children?

SUSRoof! Hi there, what you need is to take a deep breath & spend some time on yourself, maybe a bubble bath, get a freind to give you a facial or if you have some spare cash get it done proffessionally get your hair done (change the style)or some new perfume etc etc etc I am sure you get my drift I felt so S--T! last week so I have to confess that I made an appointment got the hair done bought a couple of new tops & then went & bought some perfume & lippie & I felt great afterwards take some time for yourself rather than acting as a councillor to this OW H (keep away from this you are doing all 3 of them a favour if you comply with this guys wishes! tit 4 tat is all it will be!) You don't have to spend money to feel better though just do something that you enjoy SPEND THE TIME ON YOU!!!<BR>Cheers<BR>Cally

OH MY GOD!!!! I tell you this from the heart, being an old school dog, I know the tricks of the trade and how the game is played better than anyone. OWH has one of two things going on in his world, one, he is emotionally unstable(not a good base for a relationship) or two just looking for revenge buy shagging with you. Either way, either road is not a good road to travel since either way you could get hurt. As far as borrowing money from OWH, big NO NO. Nothing is free in this world. You are an emotional wreck, and I do not blame you for that, it is only natural. This is when the predator goes after the prey, is when they are at their weakest.<P>Liebling

Update from the weekend: I can only post on weekdays from my work computer, so the weekend news is this: OW H showed up at my home on Friday night, around 11:00ish at night. I hadn't been home all day and all night. My D was at a sleep over at one of her tball friend's house, so I was going to paint the town red. I have my little SIL with me and we went to my house after 10:30 to get ready to go out. Now, my H was out of town this weekend, and I knew about it; although he did not want me to have knowledge of this, but of course with this information circle I am in, everything gets around. I made him aware Friday noon, that I knew of his trip, so I told him to have a safe trip, he was quiet. Well OW told my H about her H being in town for the weekend. Friday night, OW couldn't get a hold of her H, and she knew my H was out of town. She figured that me and her H were shacking up. So of course, the info circle took action, she assumed me and her H, she called my H and my H assumed that I was out with her H. My H called my home number twice, once after midnight and once after 1:30am. Then he called my cell phone twice, left ugly message. He called his older sister, who was also out of town for the day, asking if she knew my whereabouts, now, just for your info, I don't ever talk to his older sister, just HI and BYE when I see her, she is not one in the circle, then to top it off, he also calls his BIL's brother, who has a daughter that plays tball with my daughter, and they were out of town as well. So he was desperately looking for me. Since he failed to contact me, he called his mom's house, twice asking if she, MIL, thought I was with OWH! He finally got a hold of me on Saturday around 4:00ish. Boy was he upset, asking me why I don't return his phone calls, where the hell was I, and taking under consideration, he still has not given me his new cell phone number, although I do know it. He himself has not willingly given it to me, so I will assume that I don't have/know it. But let me tell you, I did like the attention that it put out. But I would never do anything with OWH. Even OW told her H she was jealous and pist off because of our communication, OWH told me OW was going to call me and give me a piece of her mind, OWH told her, go ahead, that I had a big piece to give her myself, that we were only talking, we were not f@#%ing each other, like my H and her. Anyway all is quiet now. OWH is gone out of town again, my H is back into town since Sunday noon, H and OW met each other at a lake for a Sunday meet and greet, I miss you thing. They both arrived to there homes almost simultaneosly, to coincidental, OW called her H to let him know she had just arrived from her day at the lake and that he can now drop of the kids, OWH called me almost right after the drop off to see if I heard from my H. My answer was no, cause I hadn't. But within a few minutes MIL called me saying that my H had just called her to let her know he had just gotten home and he was tired from all the sun. Damn him(H) and damn her(OW)!! OWH told me that his W wants a relationship with my H. They(OW and her H) have already hired lawyers for their divorce and have discussed divorce stuff. Now with all said and done; everyone know that I still love the man(my H); with all my heart. And I hear all different things, (i.e., don't go back, always look forward never backwards; once a cheater always a cheater [which by the way is the closest one to fit him]; and that he is my H and we took vows and I should work on our marriage), now with all that aside, I understand that it is totally up to me. The decision is very hard, especailly when I know I still love him deeply and care for him, but yet I care for myself as well and I don't want to get hurt again for a 4th time. I have read other posts and there was one person that her H had had an affair about 5-6 times during their marriage, I can't remember if they are still together or not. But that is too many times. Does that go to show that if they did it once they will almost always do it again. Which comes to my conclusion, when do you draw the line? When do you say enough is enough? Deal with it your whole life? Do I think he will EVER change? Do they every change? Well I went out this weekend and went dancing, I put on some nice clothes, I have since done my hair, and I look good, I danced and danced, that my calves are very sore right now. I even met some guy that was almost 10 years younger than I was, it was pretty weird, but only danced, then I told him he could be my younger brother, he could not believe my age. Which actually made me feel better. But I went out because I knew I would not run into H. Should I still go out, even though I know I will eventually run into him? OR should I just lay low. I wasn't ready to go out before, but something just lit my fire and I am glad, because I really had a blast.

So you think, that since OW H has a personal vandeta (not sure of spelling of that word) on my H, OWH is trying to get some revenge on my H, by maybe trying to get me attached to him, and then maybe eventually saying that he had his wife too! I thought about all that too. I am not going to borrow money from him, although the talking to him, is still up in the air. I feel that he is in the same boat as myself and understands me very well. OR maybe I think he does. So, maybe he is just using me as bait or something to plot revenge against my H and his W. Sounds possible. Sometimes I just tell myself I don't want to know anything about H and OW, but its addicting. MIL and OWH usually have the stories to tell me and somehow I just get pulled in by the gravity and want to listen to the juicy gossip that hurts me deeply!<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Liebling:<BR><B>OH MY GOD!!!! I tell you this from the heart, being an old school dog, I know the tricks of the trade and how the game is played better than anyone. OWH has one of two things going on in his world, one, he is emotionally unstable(not a good base for a relationship) or two just looking for revenge buy shagging with you. Either way, either road is not a good road to travel since either way you could get hurt. As far as borrowing money from OWH, big NO NO. Nothing is free in this world. You are an emotional wreck, and I do not blame you for that, it is only natural. This is when the predator goes after the prey, is when they are at their weakest.<P>Liebling</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>

You're just going to keep hurting yourself listening to OW, OWH, and MIL. <P>Who knows why OWH is doing what he's doing. It doesn't matter, does it? You may find out he's being vindictive, but the only way to do that would be after it was too late. Or, you may find out he really is just looking for someone to talk to and meet his EN's. Either way, it doesn't matter, you still have to seperate yourself from him...<P>HbH

Stranger...<P>Run!! Do not walk...run to the nearest exit and leave OWH in the dust. First off....neither of you is in a position to talk to the other about this. This situation is what leads to *I didnt plan for that to happen*, or *We didnt honestly mean for anything like this to happen*, or *It was only once, and now I feel horrible*, or worse yet, *They deserved it, we deserved it, and it meant nothing*.<P>If you continue to talk to him, your head is gonna spin faster and faster. Hes gonna say all the right things, and the next thing that you know, you feel horrible, and he ends up saying, "I'm sorry", or worse, "Can I see you again?" You need to cut off all contact with him, if he persists in that direction. He is going through the D with OW and you don't need the extra entanglements. They cause you to lose focus and make you think weird things...LOL. <P>IMHO, get out of that situation. But, like you, I find it interesting that H and OW have such a DOUBLE STANDARD!! WOW...does he really believe you OWE him any explanations whatsoever, especially when he is still seeing her? <P>Keep the faith!!<P>Trueheart

Okay, here comes my wild imagination again. TO answer your question, it (OWH calling you, sharing feelings and information and meeting EN's) means you could be walking into a worse mess than you can think of. Here are possible scenarios:<P>1. You fall in love with each other and marry. Just like a movie. And bring the history of H's affair with OW along as part of the "and how did you two meet and fall in love?" story. You have to make arrangements for your exes to share the children's events (baseball games, last day of school, father daughter dance, holidays and weekends) and deal with two hostile exes. They can wreak infinite havoc in their malice.<P>2. Or, you continue to talk and share information and feelings, support each other. You don't go any further. But your H and his W spread rumors around town. The rumors are believed because there are reported sightings of the two of you, innocent as they may be, together. The rumors hurt your children.<P>3. Or, you begin dating, bound together by pain that nobody else understands. The core of your love is the shared pain and shame at being betrayed. Your exes will always be part of your lives. Conversations will abound with shared glee at their bad luck, this is not a good glue to keep you together.<P>4. Last, you break off further contact, even by phone, and improve your life, doing things together with your daughter and her friends' parents. I liked the suggestion about painting the bathroom. Go from there. At the end of 6 to 8 weeks instead of emotional exhaustion you will have a clean pretty room, you'll find things you'd lost while you're cleaning (maybe an heirloom necklace or a letter from an old friend, maybe a $100 bill.) Change the lightbulbs to a warm pink. Think what kind of nice person has a well-cared for home. You deserve that, don't you think?<P>Don't get tricked into the briar patch that the other 3 are in. Walk away.<P>------------------<BR>Belle, Domestic Goddess

Your right, I do get hurt by MIL, OW and OWH. Ever time they have something different to say, I will hear it. MIL talks to me EVERY morning. It has been approximately 2 months (+/-) a couple of days since D-Day, and every day and all those days MIL and I talk every AM about what's new, if I heard from my H and if she has her from her son, vice versa, or heard from OWH, etc. Just gossip, but yet I am drawn into it. I tell myself that I will stop, but I just can't, it's like an addiction. I want to know my H every move, like keeping tabs on him and OW. I know that is probably not healthy, but now I'm just used to it. I guess I need to start backing off, maybe my life will be better without all the info.<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by hurtbyhubby:<BR><B>You're just going to keep hurting yourself listening to OW, OWH, and MIL. <P>Who knows why OWH is doing what he's doing. It doesn't matter, does it? You may find out he's being vindictive, but the only way to do that would be after it was too late. Or, you may find out he really is just looking for someone to talk to and meet his EN's. Either way, it doesn't matter, you still have to seperate yourself from him...<P>HbH</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>

Trueheart: You are right as well as the others that have posted to me. I spoke with OWH yesterday, he got a new phone number and he gave it to me and made me aware that his wife did not have it yet. I was the first one. He wanted to see me on this trip that I am taking with my daughter, he is working in the same town I will be in. My H is going with me, I know several had said I shouldn't, but I also think he should be with his daughter watchin her game. OWH keeps asking if my H will be there, as if he is already being possessive over me. I guess it is getting to deep. I have already told him that nothing will become of us. I still have feeling for my H and I know he still has feeling for his W. But I feel that we are both in this revenge stage; which is bad, and I will not do. So now, how do I cut of all contact. Change my numbers or just tell him back off! Even that seems hard to do. I just really thought we could talk; I really didn't ever read into a relationship with him, just a friend to talk to.