This "fog" is really unbelievable. I feel sorry for my wife who is caught up in it and doesn't find the way out. I wonder if there are ways on how to fight against that fog. Is it at all possible for us BS to do anything to help them find out? Or do they simply have to hit bottom? Is the only way for them to experience how their illusion and fantasy gets shattered to pieces on the hard floor of reality? I'm in a kind of plan B and have no contact with her. Sometimes I want to remind her of our good times or let her know all the things that I learn about marriage and about me, but I guess the fog would keep her from really listening to it, and somehow up to now it was that way. The fog seems to be like a filter, allowing only thoughts to pass through that speak for the affair and for whatever they do. <P>Do you know any fog killers or fog lifters?<P>I guess a powerful one would be prayer.<BR>Another one might be to give them no reason to justify themselves, even though the fog experience gives them the ability to take the most stupid and abstract arguments to defend themselves. This is incredible. I've heard the most ridiculous things from a very intelligent woman. <BR>If I meet my wife or talk on the phone with her I call it a success, if she didn't have to defend or justify herself. It takes so much to convince the WS that we are not their enemy. They have to make us their enemy in order to keep up their fog system. It's tough to react in love when confronted with hate, but I think it is a huge fog killer.<P>Any other ideas? <P>mike

I think they have to figure most of it out on their own. <P>Prayer, plan B, and the BS getting on with their life seem to be the most effective fogkillers I have seen. That and sending the OP off to a deserted desert island. Hmmm...<P>Any travel agents out there that can get us a good deal?<P>

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by mikoman:<BR><B>Another one might be to give them no reason to justify themselves, even though the fog experience gives them the ability to take the most stupid and abstract arguments to defend themselves.</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>This is the essence of Plan A. Removing all spousal reasons they might have as an excuse to have an affair. Tersely stated, disarm them.<P>WAT<P>

'Fog Killers' that I believe worked towards my WH was sticking to the law. No bending. Staying in REALITY. <P>He wanted out, so I kicked him out. I kept insisting that he officially change his addresses with various government offices (revenue Canada, Ont. Health, his drivers licence, etc). He was slacking off in his child support payments (as minimal as they were), so I told him about the FRO (family responsibility office) and how I was going to go there. A real kicker for him, was me changing the kids surnames. Instead of the kids having only his surname, I got them hyphenated (pretty easy, since my maiden name... which I never changed on any id, was already a middle name for all the kids). At one time he insisted that divorce was what he wanted, so as far as visitations go, I stuck to a time schedule based on ages of the kids (which a lawyer had given to me... it's a guideline used by most courts in Canada and the U.S.).<P>Reality is what hit him. 2 weeks after telling me he wanted a divorce for 'sure', we were starting on our road to recovery. We've been on it for about 1 1/2 months now. He has officially moved all of his things back in.<P>I guess reality really sucks when you're a WS. <P>Karen<BR>

Sorry for crashing this thread but ... WOW Topie. Sounds like you used a hybrid MB/Tough Love Plan.<P>You certainly did induce a damn good shot of reality into him. I would have never thought of the "surname" thingie. Whoa!!!<P>Jo

Resilient:<P>You like the surname thingy, eh? <P>Actually, it was something VERY important to me. Both H and I are the last chance to pass on our surnames (which is why my maiden name was put as a middle name for all of the kids to begin with).<P>My attitude was, "why should I give H the HONOUR of having his children with only HIS surname? They're MY kids too!!".<P>Even though we're in recovery now, I still don't plan on changing any names. The only change that MAY take place, would be for me to hyphenate my name too (and of course, H would be more than welcome to do the same to his, should he desire).<P>Karen<BR>

To Karen - I love it: "Reality sucks when your a WS."<P>Gotta work this in to future responses.<P>WAT