My H keeps saying he has to leave (even though he has to leave our 2 year old) because he can't live with me any longer. He just can't stand it anymore. Is this fog or does he really hate me?

To be honest, I think it's a little bit of both. After all, there was an environment created BEFORE the onset of the A that he got lured (or lured himself?) into.<P>I don't believe that someone would say hurtful things that weren't true to them to some extent. Just remember, hurtful things are said and done based on emotions... not reality... that's where the fog is taking over.<P>I also believe that hate is too strong a word here. It's more of a case of really disliking.<P>Now for some more of what is meant to be constructive criticism here (so I hope I haven't offended you). Are you aware of any of the things you do that keeps him disliking you? Even those little things, when changed, can really make a difference. For example, my H HATES it when I am eating something with a fork and my teeth slide on the tines, making an awful sound (only with really hot food). So I now make a conscious effort NOT to do that.<P>It sounds silly, I know. But it's all part of plan A. You have to be honest with yourself, and discover what it is that irks your H, and change those behaviours or actions / reactions. It's a tough job. It took me a couple of months before I started to get it. Once that happened, the changes happened too.<P>Try to stay focused on your goal. Easier said than done, but logic can work better for you than emotions can right now. <P>Take care,<BR>Karen<BR>

Hi T25, Thank-you for your response. Right now, it seems that everything I do doesn't agree with him. He keeps saying "Now, you do that...how come you had to wait until it was too late to..." So even though I'm changing my behaviour, it's bugging him that I have. For example, he said I never wanted to watch him play soccer or hockey. Now I've been making a conscious effort to go but he HATES it when I do. Another example, I never wanted to take vacation and just clean the windows or do things around the house. Now I do...he can't stand any of my changed behaviours. As he puts it, it makes him angrier.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Terrified:<BR><B>...he can't stand any of my changed behaviours. As he puts it, it makes him angrier.</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>It means you're doing it right. He's angry because he no longer feels as justified in his anger as he did before. So it's anger mixed with indecision and confusion. Things haven't stayed the same and he doesn't know how to react. I'm a beginner, but it sounds to me like you're on the right course.<P>SaltWater

I think that's bulls**t spewing from his mouth. I'd take it as your plan A is working. You are not allowing him to validate his reasons for wanting out of the marriage now. Keep it up! (guilt is so treacherous for a WS to deal with, especially when in the fog. but you know what? you're not MAKING him feel guilty, you're only doing what you should have done long ago. Take pride in the fact you've realized where you went wrong in the relationship. That's a MAJOR step. Dealing with the onslaught of new personal discoveries all the time, well, that's a different story.. but you'll get used to it.. I have! ).<P><BR>Karen<BR>

I think that when the BS starts to make the changes in themselves that are necessary, the WS's get angry because it makes it very difficult for them to justify their behavior and they take it out on the BS's.<P>I began making the changes in myself long before I learned of my W's affair. I took a long, hard look at myself and realized the things I did that lead to our emotional estrangement and helped create the climate for an affair.<BR>I recently wrote my W a letter acknowledging the things I've done that contributed to our problems. She responded by asking me for a divorce. I talked to Steve Harley about it and he basically said she's angry because I took responsibility for the things I've done and now she can't hold that against me anymore. That makes it harder to do what she's doing and she doesn't want to focus that anger on herself for what she's doing. Skewed logic, I know, but that's how WS's think.<P>Keep working on making yourself the best W you can be. He may resent you for it and be angry with you, but someday when he comes out of the "fog" he might appreciate and love you more than ever. If he doesn't, you'll still be a better person.<P>Just my take on it. I may be wrong.<P>sad dad

Yep, big time!?!?!? Now he is angry that you are taking away the reason to justify his A. <P>Poor baby!!!! Take it away. My H told OW that he no longer could use me as a reason for his A, that I was doing everything right. Guess what? Big LB to OW. She was mad. Then I became the focus of her attention to make me look bad and that was an LB. H said he kept defending me and she would get angrier. <P>When I learned this, I chuckled. Yeah one for the gipper!!! Then I let them have at it. The more they talked about me, the less they talked about each other. Hm..... good move. So keep up and be nice, keep going to the games and whatever. His anger can't stay in high gear forever. <P>L.<BR>

Yeah, for what it's worth, a lot of the anger is really at themselves and it's been redirected towards YOU. At least that's how it's going here at my house. I catch all kinds of #$&*, then hear about how it's really herself that she's angry at. I mean, come on... What do you have to do to a rational person to make them REALLY ANGRY? It's usually a LOT. WS's are IRRATIONAL.<P>I was really good to my W in our marriage, and she still had an A. Since d-day, I've LB'ed a little (you can't control emotions) but all in all, I'M the one who should be angry, not her! It's ridiculous! It feels so bad to be the target of all that. But you gotta just smile, and don't give 'em anything to work with. They'll realize it all one day...<P>zen

It's so funny...he leaves to go to his soccer game in an angry fit and then calls right before the game and right after just to check in. Maybe you're all right? He goes from being angry and wanting to let everyone know, asking me what to tell his parents to "what time are we leaving for the party tomorrow"??? I know I've said it before but this is so hard. My mind is so far gone sometimes that I just don't know what to think. I think the advice to ignore anything H says since it's subject to change momentarily is probably right on the mark.<P>Thanks everyone for listening. I think I'm in "MB fog" because I can't live without reading and writing every day.

Don't you just want to scream sometimes. My H is so far under the "fog" it's unreal. Yes, I feel like he hates me too. He tries to do EVERYTHING without me. He has made his brain believe he is NO longer married. Does your H think he is Mr. Stud man too? My H has a family history of over weight people. My H was by no means too over weight. But now that's all he wants to do is lose weight. He takes his shirt off and sits or lays in the sun to get his belly tan. His whole family is just sick of him. He walks around smoking like he's Mr. sexy. Then he does what ever he can to avoid me. He won't even stand close to me. There's NO care at all. We used to be VERY close. We will be married this October eleven years. I've known this man all my life. We grew up only a couple of blocks from each other. NO ONE knows who he is. I hope this is really "fog" because it scares me to death. I do NOT like this stranger. I miss the other person. Oh, but then I am the one that is blamed for him losing his "self". Too bad there isn't some drug out there for the men of the "FOG" to take. I sure would invest money in the stock of that company I would be rich. Just hang in there. All I do is read, read.... this really helps me understand a lot of things. I am also having my H's mother read this too. We are an old fashion christian family that grew up in a small town where things like this people have not heard of. NO ONE knows how to handle this or what to do. This all happened to me on May 29, 2001 my father does NOT know. He would just kill my H. Not literally but it would be VERY nasty. I never knew how hard this would be. This MB site has done great help. So keep posting.<P>My thoughts and prayers go out to you,<BR>LOVEMESS

Hi LM, My H is also pretty focused on himself these days...absolutely would prefer that I wasn't around. The only reason he's still around is because of my daughter so he says. Yes, it is definitely a very difficult time. <P>Hugs to you hoping your ordeal improves.

T:<P>Just a thought. Generally, "hate" expressed by a WS to the BS means one of two things, both having a common root:<P>1. They are redirecting their sense of anger caused by shame, guilt, etc. caused by the affair; or<P>2. They are redirecting anger they feel due to conditions (whether based on revisionist history or not) in the marriage prior to the marriage, and thus use it as a tool for self-justification. They are angry because YOU caused all this.<P>Meeting ENs via Plan A is a means to undermine #2. Plans A and B can address #1.<P>Godspeed,<BR>STL

Terrified,<P>I have been doing plan A for more than 10 months, since d-day#1 of my H's A. It has been nearly 10 months since the A ended.<P>Everything your H has said, as described in this thread, my H also said in the days following d-day#1 and d-day#2. "Staying for the kids only", "I am completely cold to you. In fact, I never loved you.", "I don't want to be with you", "How do I know your changes are not just a trick?", "The changes you have made make no difference in how I feel about you and about our M", "I do not want to spend the rest of my life knowing that I settled for you!", "Can't you see that I don't care about our vows; I have already broken them", etc...<P>Ten plus months later, we are still together. H is now saying he loves me more than ever, wishes he could change his terrible choice more than anything else in the world, and having trouble understanding how he could have "forgotten" what a wonderful person and spouse I am (all his words). Just this morning, he told me that I am his best friend and that he is so lucky that I am a forgiving and compassionate person. The last time we talked about ENs, he told me that I meet all his ENs extremely well and that he could find nothing wanting.<P>We are not yet recovered, but I hope we will be, in time. There are still many, many challenges facing us, not the least of which is my ability to believe anything he says. Still, I am usually pretty optimistic about our recovering our M and building a better relationship than we have ever had.<P>I just wanted you to know that the things my H said really made me wonder whether any amount of plan A could turn his head and heart back to me and our family. H actually continued to say these "things" regularly for more than six months after the A ended, although the cruel comments were further apart.<P>Plan A worked for us. It kept H around long enough to remember some of the good things about me and us; it showed him that I had listened to his complaints; it showed him that I meant the vows we took, even when he had forsaken them.<P>------------------<BR>Never give up. Never, never give up.<BR>~ Winston Churchill