Going to NY tomorrow, then when I get back, it's hotel then apartment.<P>Still no real "talks" with my W this weekend about "ground rules" of separation, our future, our expectations...<P>Just hasn't seemed right for that.<P>Still don't know whether to Plan B when I move into apartment.<P>It's gonna be a tough night...<P>zen

zen:<P>My thoughts are with you. One day at a time, one step at a time.<P>In the meantime, enjoy the Big Apple.<P>Godspeed,<BR>STL

zen<P>Sorry for your situation.<P>Keep your chin up...<P>Good luck <P>E

Thanks dudes...<P>I feel like such a doormat. I've fixed supper for both W and step-daughter and am serving it to them in bed...<P>I am getting used...<P><BR>zen

zen<BR>what a bad day for you...I've read a lot of your posts (I'm a newbie) and I don't think you're a doormat. I think you are a kind caring man who has gotten a raw deal. Don't change who you are because your W and step child don't appreciate it. Good luck to you!

Zen,<P>Please, you are not a doormat, you are a person with high morals, who stands behind the vows he made, who cares about his family, who wants his marriage to work, and who has worked extremely hard on it.<P>I am sorry that things have gotten to this point. I too am in a *downer* mood tonight. Things did not go well for me this weekend. Major LB last night. <P>It's just so damn hard. You Plan A, Plan A, Plan A and the spouse doesn't respond. I know your pain as do so many on this board.<P>How long are you going to be in NY? I don't know enough to counsel you on Plan B, but I have read some of your posts and know how much you have tried and how much you are hurting. I will pray for you and your W. <P>R3

Thanks so much for your support... I'm really feeling okay now...<P>W and I sort of held hands a few minutes ago... weird...<P>I'll be in NY for the Macworld Expo all week... Coming back next Sunday...<P>Just gonna keep playin it cool... And Plan A'ing!<P>zen

I'm not sure that you're ready for plan B. IMO, if you were, you'd know it would have to be that way. Since you are having doubts, I'd say you should stay in plan A a while.<P>In my experience with my WH, I found it much easier to plan A while we were separated... all the less opportunity to LB on my part (although I sure did some doosies!). I tried to think of it as a great opportunity to become his best friend again. Granted, my circumstances allowed me to see and talk to him everyday (because of the kids). It killed me not knowing what he was doing every night. When I would see him online (in various chat rooms or on icq), it would at least comfort me that he wasn't WITH any of the OW. Anyways.. enough about me.<P>Think about what opportunities you will have to stay in contact with your W. I know you want to continue spending time with your step daughter.. has she told you that she still wants to spend time with you too? I sure hope so. Not only would that make things easier on her, but it would most likely give you the chance to spend time with your W (even if very limited).<P>How old is your step daughter? Will your being gone affect how often your W will be available to spend time with OM? If it will, then this separation could work to your advantage.<P>Take care of yourself... and keep strong... but NEVER feel like you have to keep that front up on here if you don't want to. We're all here to help you along in your journey.<P>Karen<BR>

Zen,<P>I feel for you. There is nothing fair about what is happening to you. But you are not a door mat. You should feel proud that you did the right thing. You are the better person. Sometimes doing what is right is so very very hard.<P>Have a good trip and see ya when you get back.<P>Z<P>------------------<BR>He loves not who does not show love.<BR>----William Shakespeare

Well again, thanks...!<P>Topie, et al:<P>My step-daughter is 9 and she is the greatest in the universe. I love her MORE than I think I would if she were my own (it's a step-parent thing, I'm sure of you know what I mean). She is VERY attached to me... wonderful but terrible considering what's coming...she does not yet know. She is going to her dad's for a week tomorrow, then will be at grandparents' for a week, then we're going to tell her.<P>My W very much wants us to keep things as normal as possible for the little girl. I will keep my key and she and I will see each other as much as possible. This weekend, my W alluded to the three of us doing things together like movies, etc. so plenty of chances to Plan A, I hope.<P>As far as my W and OM... here I am in the dark. Rather than ask her about it, I've just let her tell me things... like the fact that he is helping her to get this loan to pay off debts... She is acting non-committal regarding him to me, but then again... wouldn't she? She will be able to spend more time with him in the next 2 weeks as I will be gone as will step-daughter. But she has been spending the night away from home when it has been just me there anyway. I think I am ready to spend nights apart from her and not think too much about what she is doing. I have a feeling that she may not be ready for the same feeling on her end...<P>She seems genuine about wanting the separation to work on her, and about keeping the possibility of reconciliation alive. But it could all so easily be a lie, just a face she has on until I am out of the house. It hurts to write those words, but I think they are appropriate at this point coming from a BS whose W refuses to end A.<P>I want this marriage to work more than anything. I think there is hope. All of you who look at your WS with that unerasable love mixed with heartache, I know where you are. But we have to be strong and be true to ourselves. We have to do what's best for us as individuals, not only now but for the rest of our lives. This doesn't mean selfish, just (in my case) more balanced...<P>I hope that this turns into a chance to strengthen the bond between my W and I, and I would really love to date her again. That also hurts to write... but it's the way the game is played now.<P>Take care all. I will have the laptop in NYC so I will still be with you.<P>Best,<BR>zen

Zen,<P>You are going to the concrete jungle. Been there done that. But the Mac Expo, oh... my H would love to be there also. He is a big mac fan. Me... Pc girl.<P>About the doormat comment. I understand your sentiment but I need to tell you that while I felt like that also, it took a few good people here to kick me in the butt and make me remove the doormat theory from my head. I have since graduated to the door. Ah... I have the key and control who goes in and out of my life. Well in theory it sounds good, in reality it is harder to do. <P>So, you are not a doormat. OK???? You are your family's foundation and life support. Soon that will become evident to your W. Your 'daughter' will make sure her mom knows that. Your W may even know that (because of her comments let you keep the key and still do things as a family). <P>You have a good trip. Try Junior's Restaurant in Brooklyn. Huge menu and good service. At least that's the way it was back in '84. I was not impressed with NY style pizza. Another place is Mountain Charley's in Times Square. Not sure if it is still there but a fun steak house. <P>Take Care,<BR>L.<P>

zen -<P>Your comments make me feel so sad - I really feel for you. From the heart, I know it seems almost unbearable - your emotional pain and hurt, and it seems like you just can't go on. Too feel so brokenhearted - I know how the dispair feels, especially when your brain says "I'm leaving", but your heart and soul says I love this person and I don't want to leave. Alot of people have written you some great things - so I don't know what I could add. The way you talk about your step daughter - can't you give some more time in Plan A? If you walk out, it will be such unbearable pain - I hope you won't have to do it. Please reconsider - the fog can be so thick that it is hard to make it through.<P>Good luck to you. You are a wonderful person, and your wife should know this. hugs, aftershock

Zen.<P>I agree, your not a doormat, you are a wonderful warm and compassionate man. I've read most of your posts and have come to admire your spirit. "May the mountain sun warm the cold and lonely spirit, take the warmth that lingers there, a medicine bag full of light when only darkness surrounds you," my great great great Grandfather, Chief Wantanka of the Chippewa nations.

{{{{{zen}}}}}<P>It took me a day to write this. Your heartfelt words lend no peace to the torment you must feel. If I could make it better for you, I would. You're definitely in my thoughts and prayers.<P>Love,<BR>Nell <P>------------------<BR>One faces the future with one's past.<BR>--Pearl S. Buck

Zen,<BR>Let us know how everything is going. I know how you are hurting. I really think things may be easier oncce you are separated. It was SO hard for me at first when he left, and every now and then I cry so hard and hug my extra pillow and feel so lonely, but for the most part, it is getting easier to Plan A while separated. I KNOW that I can't know where he is or what he is doing all the time - or ANY of the time. He is his own person right now, and I try to respect that and wait for God to work on him. <P>I feel like we are dating again - (except I am in love with him and he's not in love with me - YET) but when you date someone, you don't know where they are or with whom, and every chance you get to see them or talk to them, you are on your best behavior to "impress" them - you know what I mean? We all feel like doormats when dating, because we want the other person to only see our good side. We don't dare be mean or show our bad habits! Remember what she loved about you in the beginning and BE that way while you are separated. I know my H loved my independence and strength - I lost it in the marriage - am gaining it back in separation - he is NOTICING and liking it.<P>please don't move to Plan B yet. try plan A for a while. you will know when it's time. <P>------------------<BR>Faith1<P>"Then Jesus answered, 'Woman, you have great faith! Your request is granted.'"<BR>Matt 15:28

Zen,<BR>Enjoy your time in NY as best as you can.<BR>I use to have those sad feelings all the time- this might be the last night I will ever spend with my WH; this might be our last night out together; this might be the last time..... But thing do get better.<P>Your W is not ready for a D, which give you a lot of room to plan-A her. My WH wanted a D as soon as the A is out on the table. I thought it is all over, but plan-A worked for me. You can make it if you have your heart set on it! Wish your trip go smooth and we will be here for you !!<BR>