We have so many close friends and have "grown" together with their extended families. The last several weekends have been overwhelmingly busy and we have not said no to any of these occasions. On two different occasions on both Saturday and Sunday, H appeared so normal, treated me as he did BEFORE the dreaded A, while only the day before spoke of leaving...do these situations help to thin the FOG? Sometimes, it appeared so because our friends kept referring to all these beautiful memories we created together, etc. etc., Today, he appears once again listless and depressed.

T-<P>I so understand you! My H and I have continued to visit with friends, go to church, etc. If our friends didn't know (from me) they wouldn't have any idea what has been happening the last three months...<P>One couple even commented on how eerie it is...and my H is not 'living' with us...<P>I can only hope it thins the fog, but I doubt it...What I think it does, when you are in plan A...is to create that 'safe' marriage to come back to...it creates space between what happened before the A to create the environment for the A---expecially if you have been changing yourself and getting stronger....<P>That's my opinion, anyway.<P>Cali

Terrified and Cali,<P>I have posted on and off here for a long time, but not really very frequently, and so I am not sure you will recognize me. I come and read here from time to time, and was interested in your post.<P>To sum it up, I was the WS. <P>Terrified- after reading what you've written, I have thought of all the times I have probably acted 'normal'..normal on the phone, normal at Christmas, normal while a sister talks of an x-husband's betrayal against her, normal while another talks of a friend who has been betrayed. I say nothing, because who am I to speak? On some of these occasions my H has been present, but lets on that nothing is wrong either. <P>I am not sure why I am able to do this. To me, it is almost a survial mechanism - if that makes sense. If one thinks too hard, or long about the wrongs they have done, they may literally loose their mind. So acting 'normal' can be a welcome relief.<P>Let me encourage you in that I think Cali is on to something here... it does perhaps create 'space' between the trauma of what has happened and the life that is still ongoing - the life that has a possiblity of being better....your married life.<P>It can be that 'normalicy' that causes one's eyes to open and see that life is more than the maddness that goes on inside the mind - and I can only speak as a WS on that point.<P>I may sound ridiculous, I realize, but when I am alone, it is then that the power of the fantasy/dream I had allowed to grow within, is more real. When I am at work or living life with the family I have been given, it is then that I can see beyond my selfish 'bent'. I see real people, real life, and real pain. I can even imagine the OM, in his real life, his real love, and real pains.<P>I am not completely sure how I got here. I imagine, thinking mostly of myself and my own problems surely played the largest part. But regardless, I would bet that your H, in a lot of ways wishes he had that 'normalicy' back. The life before the devastating mistakes. Your pain, his, and that of everyone involved.<P>If you have the strength in you...try...smile at him - touch his hand...during these times where things seem 'normal'. If you want him - and this is your ligitimate choice. If you have decided you do, reach out to him as a friend with your deepest heart, and he may then see there is no one else to whom he can be more safe to heal. <P>I am not sure that all WS's see that they are broken, but I know that I am. The OM I was involved with knew he was as well. Broken people - who know it - want to be fixed. They need the ones who want them, to reach out with love. Not that the WS left much to be loved...I can see that is true...<P>I imagine it is only the grace of God that allows BS's to reach out while in that kind of pain. It is truely miraculous. <P>I fear I haven't helped a lot. Worse, I likely made litte sence and spelled a bunch of words wrong. Forgive me, I am very emotional tonight...and without a dictionary. <P>Best of luck and love to you both.<P>-dawnn<p>[This message has been edited by Dawnn (edited July 16, 2001).]

Dawnn,<P>You made a huge amount of sense. When I started reading this thread I was going to say something like, "You know this really pisses me off. My WS can be so normal, act like nothing is wrong. It feels like a slap in my face." But your words were wonderful. Thank you. I now can see a different side to why my wife can't seem to be alone. And I can see a different side to why she clings so desperately to other people. I think you are right, they offer her a reality wherein she does not have to revisit what I'm sure she sees as her brokenness. She may not be to the point she really wants to be fixed yet, but you helped rekindle my compassion, and that was growing thin of late. Thank you.<P>Ish

Dear Dawnn, Your post was amazing to read. I looked at him yesterday during one of our social functions and realized that I really believe he wants it back. He's just not sure how to get there. The only reason I suddenly believed it is that he was there, at the function when he didn't have to be, right? Talking and laughing with our friends, none of which have a clue, as if there was absolutely nothing wrong and just at that moment, I think he understood in his heart that he didn't want to let this go either. Do you think I'm losing it by thinking this way?

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Dawnn:<BR>I am not sure why I am able to do this. To me, it is almost a survial mechanism - if that makes sense. If one thinks too hard, or long about the wrongs they have done, they may literally loose their mind. So acting 'normal' can be a welcome relief.<P>It can be that 'normalicy' that causes one's eyes to open and see that life is more than the maddness that goes on inside the mind - and I can only speak as a WS on that point.<P>Dawn<BR>My H and i have also tried to continue attending certain outings with friends/family. He always acts normal as if there is absolutely nothing wrong. Most times though it just drives me crazy as i start to think that maybe he just doesnt care. He too describes his actions similar to yourself but i guess from my anger i never took a moment to focus on what he really meant until i read your post. So i thank you as a WS for sharing your thoughts. I guess i understand that each and every one of us deal with our mistakes in a different way to what the other expects.<P>tears<p>[This message has been edited by tears of sorrow (edited July 16, 2001).]

Ishmael,<P>I am glad if what I said helped give a different view of the WS, and more importantly your wife. What you said about 'revisiting the brokeness'...and how your W may feel she doesn't want to revisit it, is true for me. Very true. I have come to the point where I see that I need (the need being - that I don't go litterally crazy) to have a few minutes a day where I am not thinking of it - specifically what I have done, all the people lives into which I have brought pain - most directly my H. <P>Similarly, I don't like to be alone. I never minded it before, but I am convinced now that when I am alone I am tormented to the point where I actually find myself crying out. Funny, sometimes what makes it all worse is that I know this isn't anyone's fault but my own. It is justice surely. <P>Anyway, I would just want to encourage you to do what you can not to give up on her. I know that there are times and good reasons for BS's to choose to walk away, each situation is different. God can bring her to a place of wanting to get 'fixed'. He can do amazing things with messed up people. I am hopeful He will in my case. If I didn't have that hope then I'm not sure going on living would be easy to do.<P>Thanks for your response, I am encouraged that it was helpful in any way. <P>take care...<P>Terrified,<P>No I don't think you are loosing it a all. I think your reasoning is right. He didn't have to be there. One of a million excuses could have been used, but he went. Is he making some kind of effort to be connected with his real life - the life he built with you?? I would venture to guess yes. I can't see the whole picture but this is a positive thing from my perspective. As I may have said earlier there is a deep desire for things to be 'ok' again. And for me that has been coupled with the desire to make things better, to heal. It is the hardest thing I've ever faced - I know that for sure. But if he is trying, and you can see it, then you have good reason to be positive about his acting 'normal.' <P>Hang in there Terrified. There is hope! : )<P>tears of sorrow,<P>I can understand how you can worry that he doesn't care...on the surface, but I would suggest that it is a 'cover'. Especially since you've heard him say similar things. When my H and I watch a movie and there is and adulterous scene (why are they everywhere these days??) I can feel myself shriveling up inside. At the same time rage fills me that I could have hurt someone so badly. So many people actually. If the subject of cheating comes up in conversation some direct or indirect way, i try to change the subject - I try to 'cover' - saying as little as possible. <P>Maybe that would seem to my H as me not caring or making light of it, and it is likely true that this whole approach is nothing short of the selfish. The same selfishness that started me down this road in the first place, I don't know. But in reality, what is happening inside me is that I am feeling terrified that I might get too close to the 'rage' inside, and litterally hurt myself because of it. <P>Sometimes, in the darkest moments, I am afraid of what I might do to 'get away from' this pain I have caused. I am hopeful, and would like to think 'convinced' - that hurting myself is the last thing I would ultimately do. Afterall, if I were to do that, the pain is increased to the very one I wish to take the pain from. But I can understand how that 'maddness' enters one's mind.<P>I read the post by 'I_cannot _think_ of _ a _ name' ......I think we all have. When I read her brief, numbed statement about the drastic measure her H took - I could do nothing but weep. This 'monster' (adultery/sin/disease) is horrible, ugly and tragic. Lord, how my heart grieves for her.<P>I am sorry, Tears, I guess maybe I am still running on a bit with this here. I think you are right, we all deal with things differently, we all have different ideas about how we would like to see things dealt with too. I guess it's up to each of us to try to find out how our spouse 'deals', and try to communicate enough to make sure we each have what we need to heal. However long it takes.<P>my best to you..take care. <P>

Terrified,<BR>It is amazing how WS can appear normal in public. I used to feel the same way, but one event made me count my blessings. About a week after D-Day, wife and I went to a sports bar with friends to watch our local NFL team in the playoffs. Before the night was over wife was kissing a man at the opposite end of the bar that she had coaxed into removing his shirt (team jersey). It was quite obvious that the guy knew she was married after holder her hand and looking at her ring. I was under Steve H's counsel at the time and did nothing. Our friends just sat and looked at me with disgust that I was doing my best to ignore the situation. A couple of the guys in our crowd had prodded me to do something and I told them she was a big girl and knew what she was doing. Finally they (guys at our table) stood up and told me "If I wasn't going to do something they were". At that point I walked over and offered to remove the shirtless mans head and defecate in his esophagus (P.C. version). Needless to say it was not a good scene. I should have just left without her. <P>So as difficult and awkward as you might feel in public, count your blessings it could be much worse.<P>

Dawnn,<P>Thank you so much for such a powerful testimony! I'm the BS and I have also wondered how my H can be so "normal" in social settings (esp. church - go figure).<P>Yesterday I thought I wanted a divorce to stop my pain, but today, and more so after reading your post, I have a different view of my H.<P>I do love him and I do want our marriage (heck, it's only been 1+ years)! I guess I can try a little longer.<P>Thank you!<P> <P>------------------<BR><B><I>RECOVER * REFOCUS * REGENERATE ~ BREATHE * RELAX</I></B><P>By Eleanor Roosevelt ~~<BR><UL TYPE=SQUARE><BR><LI>"People grow through experience if they meet life honestly and courageously. This is how character is built." <P><LI>"No one takes advantage of you without your permission."<BR></UL>