Everything hit the fan on Friday. H found out I had found the porn on his computer, and I finally had to tell him I thought the marriage was over.<P>He was actually pretty calm about it until later in the evening when he called and literally yelled at me over the phone for 25 minutes (over two phone calls). He also told me he was going to kill himself. Didn't know if he was serious or not, but to protect our son, I sent him to a friend's for the night (he didn't want to go - one of the hardest things I've ever done, but I was a basket-case, and I didn't want him to see his father yelling and screaming if he decided to come home).<P>I called a friend of H's, who had already been to see him, and he said he had calmed down. A little while later, H walked in the front door. Things got so bad, I had to call the friend again. And I ended up going home with the friend and his wife. While I was home, though, H threw our glass-topped coffee table over the sofa, where it hit the computer, broke the keyboard tray, and the glass shattered to pieces. Before I left, I picked up the wooden part, just so the top wouldn't scratch. He made a point, later, to break one of the legs off (it's repairable, but it will never be the same, and it belonged to my grandmother, and he knew it).<P>My son and I spent Saturday - Monday evening with friends. During the weekend, my H continued to say he was going to commit suicide, and also put knife holes in our walls (several in one area and a chunk in another), put a hole in our waterbed and made a big mess (thankfully the liner did it's part), tore my cell phone to bits, cut up my swim suit because he thinks it's too revealing, almost cut up a brand new outfit because the jacket had holes in it (crocheted), and he thought it was indecent.<P>After all that, he finally came to his senses sometime overnight Sunday night and agreed to move out tonight if I would give him one more chance. I agreed, but I won't even start marriage counseling until I see some long-term positive changes on his part. And I also told him he needs to see his shrink this week.<P>Tonight was the first chance I've had to repair some of the damage. Need to borrow a wet/dry vac for the waterbed, and it will cost probably $500 to replace the pieces that were damaged; I can probably fix the coffee table myself, but I'm not sure yet; a new cell phone will be about $150, and I'll have to repair the walls; somehow the computer keyboard survived, but the tray will have to be replaced. I'm furious, but I'm not throwing anything. <P>H said all of that just showed how much he loved me. I say it shows how much he hates me. He says that people sometimes behave like he did - I told him it's still not acceptable, and it's not okay. I don't think he gets it. <P>Am I an idiot for giving him another chance?

You need to call the police and press charges and get a restraining order. This man is totally out of control. With this type of violent behavior, you are lucky he did not attack you.<P>There is no way you can repair a marriage with someone who exhibits this type of behavior.<P>Sorry to be so harsh but your life is in danger. Do you know what it means when a person starts putting knife holes in things in a fit of anger? He is telling you that next time it might be you. In my first marriage I escaped with my life by a twist of fate.<P>Do not let this man near you or your child.<P>{{{{{{{{{{{{hug}}}}}}}}}}}}}}<P>Z<P>------------------<BR>He loves not who does not show love.<BR>----William Shakespeare

Violence is not pretty...I watched it over the years in my mother's marriages to my stepfathers...<P>You do not want to live in fear that he will do this again...I would not accept him anywhere near me until he had completed an anger management course...<P>I have had a lot of anger in my marriage...lots of yelling, some throwing of things...but never to the degree you describe, yet it still did it's damage...my H is now angry and doesn't feel emotionally 'safe' with me...<P>Make sure that you also get help to deal with this (and your son...he is seeing things he may mirror later in his life).<P>Hugs and Prayers,<P>Cali

First of all, NO! YOU ARE *NOT* AN IDIOT! <P>...to me, it sounds like HE is acting like one tho! You probably do need to get the heck out of there. Next time he might try to poke some holes into YOU or worse, your SON!!<P>Consider yourself hugged 3 times...

You are not an idiot! You have strong feelings for this man, but that does not condone what he did. I have to second Zorweb, in that a restraining order is the way to go for now. He should not be allowed near you for now. He needs some serious counselling for his anger. That is NOT, I repeat NOT, a show of love and affection. It is anger, pure and simple, and could be directed at you next time!!<BR>Your first priority is keeping you and your son safe from that type of outburst!!<P>Trueheart

So Very Confused,<P>I wanted to drop in and check on you this morning. Please post here and let up know that you are ok.<P>You probably know this already but.....<P>This is a marriage-building forum. Generally we would not advise a person to leave their spouse. But yours is a very different matter. Until the violence is dealt with you cannot work on marital recovery because it is too dangerous for you and your son.<P>I know that it will be hard to call the police. So to give you the strength you need, think of your son. Is this the home you want him raised in? Do you want him to see this behavior and feel that kind of fear? It will cause him sever emotional damage. From what you described there is probably still plenty of evidence in your home of your husband's rampage. So call the police. Tell them that you are afraid of your husband. They will understand the hours that have lapsed. This is a very hard thing to do.<P>You know, in a marriage each spouse should strive to help the other be the very best person they can be. If you do not call the police on this, you are enabling your husband’s violence. You are not setting the limits that will teach him the right way to treat you and your son. And he will never work on his anger and violence. You will actually be doing him a favor by calling the police because he will have to deal with his behavior in the light of day. Most abusers do their dirty deed in the privacy of their home. They do not exhibit their behavior to the outside world. The behavior is more likely to continue as long as it is a dark secret. Men who are abusive and violent at home tend to down play their own behavior. When you, as a woman tell them that their behavior is out of hand they will just tell you that you are exaggerating. I know this from experience. Well, if his behavior is so OK then let him face several male police officers who have been trained to take no BULL and tell them that. Sometime men need to hear it from men. <P>By the way, it may seem that your husband was totally out of control on his rampage. But answer me this. Did he break any of his favorite things? Or only yours? I’d place money on this one. Usually when a person is throwing this type of fit, they are actually very much in control and pick and choose the items they destroy very carefully because each one of them has a message. Remember that the violence is meant to teach you that he is in control and that if you do not do, as he wants, next time it will be you. This was a very big warning.<P>Please call your local battered woman’s hot line and get some counseling.<P><BR>Please let us know how you are doing.<P>Z<BR><p>[This message has been edited by zorweb (edited July 17, 2001).]

What u said really worries me:<BR>"H said all of that just showed how much he loved me. I say it shows how much he hates me. He says that people sometimes behave like he did - I told him it's still not acceptable, and it's not okay. I don't think he gets it."<BR>HE DOESN'T GET IT! Usually when someone is angry the will throw something in the heat of their anger and then be done with it, which still isn't good......but your H's anger lasted over 48 HOURS and threating suicide! This man needs psyciatric help. Nothing you can do including taking him back will help him. He is manipulating you and if he doesn't get SERIOUS help one day it may get worse for you and your son! And please don't say "HE WOULDN'T HARM US". He will!<BR>

So Very Confused,<BR>Your husband is a violent maniac. You need to GET AWAY FROM HIM AS SOON AS POSSIBLE!! This is serious business. Do NOT justify ANY of his behavior. It is violent, dangerous, and against the law.<BR>GET AWAY FROM HIM NOW!!!

Thank you all for your replies, and your support. I should have mentioned that H moved out late yesterday - before son and I came home. However, he tells me that if decide not to give him another chance, he'll move back home.<P>Over the weekend, he said that if I called the police, he would commit suicide before they could get in the house. And he doesn't believe that they would have taken him away - after all, he says, he wasn't threatening me, and he wasn't hurting me.<P>And zorweb, you are right. He only damaged things that were considered mine. He hasn't slept in the same bed as me for years, so even our son calls the master bedroom "Mommy's bedroom," so it was considered my bed. He knew how much that coffee table meant to me, and it was my cell phone that he destroyed, and my swimsuit. The walls are "joint property," but a minor detail. <P>My son is not "seeing" any of H's actions, and I refuse to tell him what happened to "everything." He probably knows more than I'm telling, for he knows who was in the house all weekend, since we weren't.<P>And today H says this didn't mean anything: but where did he put a hole in the waterbed? Right where I sleep - and with a knife.<P>This morning I awoke depressed. Maybe because I'm not getting enough sleep; maybe because I feel totally helpless; maybe because the only place I had to sleep was on the sofa, where I don't sleep well; maybe because although H says I am now totally in control of his life, I still feel like he is controlling mine. If I say I'm going to file for divorce, he'll move back home, and will threaten suicide again. <P>More than ever, I am<P>So Very Confused

It's sooo easy for someone who is abusive (verbally OR physically) to go back over their outrageous behavior and make excuses--I didn't mean it, I was just angry, it won't happen again... blah, blah, blah!<P>Until he gets help and displays a pattern of repentant behavior, probably over a period of A YEAR or so??? I don't know, but it should probably be for a LONG time, IMHO, I would not, could not trust nor believe him.<P>If someone could be set into such a rage where they are destroying things, threatening suicide (so you'll feel sorry)--they are trying to manipulate and control YOU. He is not healthy. Ask yourself (and I have had to ask myself this before, so I'm not judging you, but), what is sooo unhealthy about YOU that you would choose to stay in such an unhealthy situation. Your son deserves to be protected even if it hurts you because of the compassion you feel toward your husband!!! LOVE & PRAYERS from California

RE: However, he tells me that if decide not to give him another chance, he'll move back home. <P>This is one more threat to try to control you. Call the police, show them and tell them what he did and ask for a restraining order. He will not be able to move back in if you do this.<P>RE: Over the weekend, he said that if I called the police, he would commit suicide before they could get in the house. And he doesn't believe that they would have taken him away - after all, he says, he wasn't threatening me, and he wasn't hurting me. <P>Your H is using suicide threats to control you (do you see a pattern here?). Listen, is a person is going to commit suicide; there is nothing you can do to stop them. They will find the privacy in which to do it. This is an idle threat. Even if it were not, you would never be responsible for his choice to do so.<P>Again call the police. In the future, if this happens again, call 911. You do not have to stay on the phone long. Just let it ring a couple of times and then hang up. They are required by law to go out and investigate any hang-up calls. They will be there. Or just leave it off the hook where your H cannot see it. The 911 staff will know what is going on and will send a team out. <P>The next time your H threatens suicide just tell him: “ I truly hope you do not. But in the end that is between you and God.” If you responded a few times like that, it would defuse the power of control he thinks that threat gives him. You would see the threat go away.<P>RE: My son is not "seeing" any of H's actions, and I refuse to tell him what happened to "everything." He probably knows more than I'm telling, for he knows who was in the house all weekend, since we weren't.<P>Your son knows. Children are incredibly perceptive. Just remember that sometimes their imagination is worse then reality. Radical honesty is so important in a family where this type of abuse is going on. Your son does not need to know the gory details, but I would encourage you to explain the situation to him in a way that demonstrates the proper way to handle such a situation. Believe me, when your son saw what happened it put fear into him. If you do not believe me, ask him. Ask him if what he saw scared him. By not telling him something and being supportive he is being taught to protect the abuser by hiding the situation. This is not something you want to teach your son. What I used to tell my son is that he father has anger control problems. That his behavior was inappropriate and that I as either going to encourage him to get help for it or we could not live with him any longer because it was a dangerous situation. <P>RE: And today H says this didn't mean anything: but where did he put a hole in the waterbed? <P>You know this means something. Something terrible. Please call the police. Yes you are depressed from it. Depression is a form of emotional exhaustion that comes from holding in the anger you have. If I were there I would call the police for you because I know that you do not have the strength right now to do this. But you have to before all of the evidence is gone. You cannot let this man back into your house without him being in months and months of anger management counseling<P>RE: I still feel like he is controlling mine. If I say I'm going to file for divorce, he'll move back home, and will threaten suicide again. <P>He can only control your life if you allow him to. Please call the police and get their help. Stop this cycle of abuse before you son and you are further hurt by it.<P>Z<P><P>------------------<BR>He loves not who does not show love.<BR>----William Shakespeare

zorweb,<P>You're right - I can't do it and I hate the fact that I can't.<P>I stopped by my H's office today to look in his car for the bag of trash he took with him, that I knew had my destroyed cell phone and swimsuit in it. It also had one of my favorite outfits and an older swimsuit in it, destroyed, and probably every workout leotard I own and one of my tank tops (although they weren't damaged). Also included was one of my letter openers (broken in two) and a bottle of my perfume.<P>I told a couple of friends today that I would call some type of domestic violence hotline tonight, but I can't bring myself to do it. So, BINthereDUNthat, you're right - there's something wrong with me, too.<P>SVC

So Very Confused<P>I understand your reluctance to make that call. It is so classic. I did it too with my XH. And do you know what, the one time I did the judge threw the evidence out because she said I was playing games. Can you believe that? I finally get up the courage and the judge hassles me about trying to smear the name of the “good doctor”. You have evidence this will help you. Did you get the bag out of his car? Or if you call the cops just tell them that it is in there.<P>I understand that you need help in making that first call. Don’t we all. There is something strange in the human brain that keeps some of us from being able to do it. I wish I had told someone who cared enough about me to make that call for me. But no one wanted to get involved. I pick my friends more carefully now. The people I surround myself with now would do it.<P>I understand what you are up against. Making the call to the domestic violence hotline is not as drastic a step as calling the police. Please pick up the phone and call. Do not think of yourself, think of your son.<P><BR>Z<P>Ps. Email me if you would like.. zorweb@hotmail.com<BR>

zorweb,<P>I tried to e-mail you, but it says your e-mail address doesn't exist. But here was the jist of the e-mail anyway:<P>I'm trying so hard to do what I think is best, but know I am failing miserably. I did, just now, e-mail the local shelter for domestic violence. I just couldn't bring myself to call them. I sent them the link to this post; figured that told everything anyway. <P>I am not a weak person - normally - but right now I feel very weak.<P>And I do have a friend who would call for me, but I'm avoiding her, because I know she would. I don't want to be a victim of domestic violence, but I'm seeing myself become more and more like one every day. It scares me.<P>I keep telling myself to do it for my son, but I still can't bring myself to do it.<P>And yes, I took the bag out of H's car. I'm afraid he'll notice and go crazy again. If, by chance, he goes ballistic, I hope that I will have the courage and strength to call 9-1-1. I cannot live through another 3-day period like I just went through.<P>Your encouragement is much appreciated. I was thinking about asking for your e-mail address because I really don't think I belong on MB right now, but don't know where else to go. <P>SVC<p>[This message has been edited by So Very Confused (edited July 19, 2001).]

You belong on here if you want to be here, and you need support right now, it's ok. I agree with everyone, you need to call the police before the evidence is cleaned up, or things get worse. What are you afraid of? Why are you afraid? The things you are afraid of could happen, if you let them. Don't let him call the shots and control you, make the call or let someone else. You need to get this documented! Like you said yourself, this is not acceptable behavior, and not ok. you started off sounding like you were alot more together and going to protect you and your child, but now you are sounding co-dependant, why? What changed? Is this how you want to live? Take a good look in the mirror right now, and really look at yourself, what is this doing to you?<P>You should also take your son and leave yourself, not a bad idea if you go where he can't find you, (take sentimental stuff with you!). Definitely talk to a lawyer and find out your options. Also, please talk to your H's shrink and tell him what happened too. I take it by the fact that you refer to him as having one and you knew enough to get you and your son out for the weekend this is not a first time incident, is it?<P>If you allow his threats to immobilize you, that is the only way he is going to be able to hurt you or himself, or your child. Get out of there, and/or get a restraining order, please.<P>scaredinny@hotmail.com<P>

Dear SVC,<P>Wow, you are really in the middle of a violent situation. We had an incident last week, H called the police while I was throwing out his clothes (not packed, just throwing out his work suits, dress shirts etc. All lother loose items were in a big garbage bag. <P>The police came and saw him pushing me so they arrested him, held him for 2 1/2 days. The a 7 day restraining order was put into affect. <P>Now we both know that anger management classes are needed. My H says he is remorseful over some of what he has done. So am I. I was told that I should have filed charges the previous 2 times. I was scared and did not want to ruin my H's reputation but that was not a good enough reason then or now. <P>L.<BR>

Was also thinking about this and I could be wrong, but it seems like your husband's personality swings and threats of suicide seem like a very depressed person in need of more than anger management. He could be experiencing a brain chemical imbalance that medication could cure... IF he is willing to get a check-up. Do you think he would see a doctor and be willing to admit his terrible mood swings?

ScaredInNY,<BR>Why have things changed? Looking at reality. When I posted Monday night, I didn't realize how much danger could really exist. You guys have shown me that. Doesn't make my decisions wiser, but I guess that's why. And it doesn't make me happy. I am afraid; afraid of making the wrong move; afraid of saying the wrong thing; afraid of what he might do if there is a next time.<P>My H has a shrink for other reasons - this is the first time anything similar to this has happened. He's thrown things on a rare occasion, but never anything of mine, and never anything as substantial as a coffee table before. And I do plan to get sentimental stuff out of the house very soon.<P>Orchid,<BR>You hit the nail on the head - I don't want to ruin my H's reputation, especially since he owns his own business. No, that's not the whole reason, but it's part of it. Also, I don't want him to commit suicide. I dealt with the suicide of a family member several years ago, I don't know that I could deal with it again. I realize this probably clouds my judgment, but it's part of my history.<P>BINthereDUNthat,<BR>H says he's going to see his shrink. I've told H to has to tell shrink everything that happened here this weekend. He asked "what if I forget something?" I told him I'd make a list for him. H asked if I wanted to go with him. I said no, but maybe I should. I told him at least six weeks ago that he needed to see his shrink, and tell him what he was feeling (back then worthless, suicidal, etc.), and when he talked to his shrink, the shrink just told him we needed marriage counseling. Obviously, he didn't tell the shrink everything he was thinking - probably just that I said he needed to see the shrink.<P>And, H called at 6:15 this morning. Realized the bag was gone. Was upset, but not angry. I told him I just wanted to see my stuff, and see if anything could be salvaged. He's afraid I'll use the stuff as evidence against him, and asked me to throw it away. I told him I was surprised he hadn't already. He is beginning to realize, I think, how bad the things that he did are, so maybe he really will get help. And isn't that the goal? For him to realize what he's done and get help? Do I have to get the police and/or a lawyer involved?<P>SVC

Well, I can't tell you what to do. Getting the police involved when loved ones are acting crazy is not easy but you might just want to call the police, describe the symptoms and perhaps they can tell you if you have a serious problem?<P>I think that since everything has been sort of cleaned up tho, it is too late to file a police report, although, it might have been a good idea to take pictures of what he did. I know, it's too late for that, but not if it happens again. Consider yourself hugged and in my prayers!

So Very Confused<P>Don't know why the email address did not work as it exists. I get email there all the time. Maybe you made a typo? <P>zorweb@hotmail.com<P>Try again ok?<P>Wow, I understand what you are saying. It's so hard to call the police. There is also a state of shock that sets in during and right after a violent episode that also paralyzes a person. So maybe the slow approach is a good one. Start contacting people. You made your first step with the email. <P>BINthereDUNthat had a good idea. Maybe if you called the police for advice. They might send someone out and help you prepare for the next time (and there will be a next time.) Than tell your H that you have put the mechanism in place to protect yourself. Tell him that in the future, if he behaves this way you will call 911 and it will be him ruining his reputation not you.<P>I know that you do not want to be an abused spouse. It’s a terrible thing to admit to oneself. But you also need to face reality or this is going to go on and on for years. <P>{{{{{{{{{{hugs}}}}}}}}}]<P>Z<BR>