kevan - Probably because I don't find him all that attractive or interesting. I still have feelings of affection like I would for any family member. But he's grumpy, often comes across as condescending, and keeps saying he wants to 'be us' again. Well 'us' sucked (please excuse my language) for years and I don't want to go back there. Maybe it's because I don't feel connected to him before we go to bed and I can't just flip a switch. Foreplay is non existent. He says it's because I just fall asleep. If I try to force the feelings, he can still tell that I'm not really all there, and that causes a different kind of trouble.<BR>SeenTheLight- there is no romance here, and I don't feel particularly inclined to initiate it. Any suggestions?<P>------------------<BR>When we walk to the edge of all the light we have, and take that step into the darkness of the unknown, we must believe that one of two things will happen - there will be something there for us to stand on, or God will teach us how to fly.

Marissa:<P>Sexual expression in a relationship is the physical manifestation of an abundance of love units. Mr. Godek's book has nothing to do about sex (well, only as a consequence of being romantic), it has to do with depositing those love units via romance.<P>The book is worth the read: tons of small things to start with. Hopefully, he will reciprocate, and the love units will start accumulating again. And ... well, you both regain a meaningful sex life.<P>Godspeed,<BR>STL

Lexxy and Marissa-<BR>I'm also the WS, in recovery for over a year. Mainly an EA, in some ways might as well have been a PA.<P>I think the answer is yes, you can regain, or very much increase, the sexual desire for a spouse, but it may take some time and a lot of work. <P>As JL has said Lexxy, your situation won't begin to be resolved until you stop seeing OM. <P>I did not get involved with OM for sex, but for attention and affection. Once given those things, I found my physical attraction to him soar. Aftergetting over the A, and spending a year working on my marriage, we have had some ups and downs (understatement). In many ways our marriage is back to how it was pre-A. Which isn't great. But, in other ways it is entirely different. <P>Now I know that my lack of sexual desire for my H is not because I don't love him, but because he isn't meeting my needs. He understands it too. So if he is gone for a week, and has no time for me, he doesn't feel neglected or rejected when he comes home and my desire level is at absolute zippo. Like Marrissa said, I can know that he wants sex, but if I feel no emotional connection to him, I can't just "flip the switch." HE understands this, and just holds me, so we can talk and reconnect, so I don't feel pressured.<P>So the issues in your relationship may be different. But I guess what I have discovered is that my marriage is a priority, and I am working on it. If the sex isn't always great, well that's part of the ups and downs. But sometimes the emotional connection is there and things are fine. I know for us, that if we invest more time together, really focusing on each other, the desire is there for both of us. It isn't a magic pill or a "switch" it is a direct result of meeting each others needs. And when we don't, the passion goes flat for a while.

I am a 38 year old W. I have been with the same guy for almost 8 years. We bought a house together after only 6 weeks. Our relationship has been rocky over the years trying to adjust to each others ways. Since early on, I have had a flirtatious relationship with a good friend. It has become sexual since April. My H does not know and I don't want him EVER to. I do not have a sexual relationship with my H and am trying to decide what to do. He has become my best friend has been very good to me considering all the turmoil and differences over the years. Since my affair, I am not sure that I want to leave my H but am caught in the middle wanting them both. My friend has dumped his GF and wants me. I can't resist him.<P>What to do...

<p>[ January 10, 2002: Message edited by: LonelyAtNight ]</p>

My husband had an affair and left home three times for the OW. He came back after just a couple of weeks each time. Everytime he comes back, he can't seem to get enough of me. He is affectionate and passionate. However, after awhile, he becomes unresponsive. We have been back together for about three months now. Everything has been going great, except for our teenager is really rebellious. About the time the trouble started with her, my H became withdrawn again. He tells me he loves me, but he's not affectionate at all, and is not interested in sex. He performs when I initiate it, but he kisses me on the cheek and acts as if I'm his sister. The OW has gotten married to another guy, so I really don't think he's seeing her again. He gets mad when I want to talk about it. I know he is capable of feeling passion for me, because he has proven that.He is going through a major mid-life crisis, and I have been trying to meet his emotional needs, but he doesn't seem to care about my main EN--affection.What should I do?

As I read these posts I find that like so many other areas, all things begin in the mind. Before an A actually happens it starts off in the mind. And before long turns into reality. So does sexual attraction. If you were attracted to your H at one point in your life, then you can become attracted to him again. It's a choice you make. Instead you seem to dwell on the negative and think of all the reason you don't have any feelings for him in that area.<BR>So go back and think of all the reasons you can feel attraction for him sexually. He did eventually get the vasectomy. You have him at home. He love you. You must love him somewhat. So now turn your attention towards thinking in sexual terms towards him. This is very hard<BR>as when you have those negative thoughts you have to consciously replace them with postive thoughts. And it takes some time, but if you didn't want to make your marriage work in every sense of the word, you wouldn't be here trying to get answers or suggestions to help you.<BR>But I found for me, the more I think on something the more likely I am to act on it. And since I want to make my own marriage the best it can be, I make an effort to think of my H in every positive light I can. and it works!!<P>So this is my suggestion. And I hope it helps you.<BR>Debbie

I have posted on this board for almost two years and have not had sex with my wife in almost two years. She was the WS and had both EA/PA with a man she still is in contact with.<P>I have seen many books that talk about this topic and in almost all cases a women will have a very hard time giving herself phyically to two men at the sametime. No contact with the OP is critical to the success at rebuilding the desire. Any contact can put the WS back to ground zero with their feelings towards their spouse.<P>In many ways I have given up even trying that part with my wife anymore as I know she has no desire for many of the reasons that were listed above. Unfortuneletly, I don't have as much compassion for some of the WS's that other folks do on this board. WS's speak of pain and confusion of not being able to connect with their partners and complain as to why they can't?<P>It should come as no surprise as to the reasons that they can't reconnect. An affair of any kind breaks the most important bond of a marriage and that is trust. Once that goes it takes two very special people to forgive each other and I don't think any of us realize how fragile a marriage is until we have to endure something like this.

I do agree in some ways, but in my case the connection was broken long before the A, or the A would never have happened.<P>------------------<BR>When we walk to the edge of all the light we have, and take that step into the darkness of the unknown, we must believe that one of two things will happen - there will be something there for us to stand on, or God will teach us how to fly.

All:<P>Just some thoughts on sexual intimacy after (and perhaps even before) an affair. For those who do not know: I am approaching [this topic] as both a former BS (my exW) and now as a recovering WS.<P>As the BS, sexual dysfunction in the marriage began before my exW's affair(s). This was before I had ever heard of MB or Dr. Harley. The emotional betrayal of the affair, combined with her refusal to give up the affair, robbed any desire for sex. Did I miss sex? Yes, but at the time I was concerned about the overall state of the marriage and the welfare of the children.<P>In retrospect, having now read <I>Surviving an Affair</I>, <I>His Needs, Her Needs</I> etc. and the material on this site, I look at what transpired in my previous marriage in a different light. There was no emotional needs fulfillment going on by either of us: we were both fixated on our individual emotional needs.<P>Without meeting my exW's ENs and her meeting mine, by neither of working together within the realm of the rules of honesty, care and protection, the marriage was doomed to becoming just another divorce statistic. Which is, in fact, what happened.<P>Conversely, as the WS, my wife (zorweb) found Dr. Harley's book <I>Surviving an Affair</I> and we both read it. We both had the same desire: to preserve the marriage. We both committed 100-percent to working on recovery. The more we read of Dr. Harley's concepts and ultimately following the link here, the more we began to realize the importance of meeting each other's EN within the framework of the rules of honesty, care, protection and time.<P>The sexual dysfunction of the past did not occur, because by aggressively applying the MB concepts, her love bank was never entirely drained (though I imagine I was getting late notices from the bank). By working together and committing together, both of our love unit deposits began to grow.<P>In addition, we found Gregory Godek's <I>1001 Ways to be Romantic</I> to be extremely helpful. Both conceptually and practicably, as a huge device in furthering love unit deposits in each other's accounts.<P>I cannot stress enough, therefore, about the importance of the EN questionnaire and the importance of radical honesty, and providing an environment that provides care and protection. Without meeting <I>all</I> of the ENs of your spouse, and having your needs met by your spouse, the marriage suffers. The area in which it tends to suffer earliest is in sexual relations.<P>Another key ingredient not mentioned above: counseling. Either collectively as a couple, or individually. It, too, is part of the equation. In my previous marriage, my exW only went through the motions of counseling, and her lackluster participation hastened the downward spiral. In my current marriage, the counseling has served to augment and expand upon the foundation that the MB approach provides.<P>For what it is worth, then, that is the roadmap that got zorweb and I onto the road to recovery. A very bumpy road. If they would only teach this in high school ... sigh ... perhaps future generations would enter into marriages with a much healhier outlook and map to follow.<P>Hope this helps you in realizing your own road.<P>Godspeed,<BR>STL<p>[This message has been edited by SeenTheLight (edited August 03, 2001).]

I have found two articles by Dr. Harley that directly address different aspects of this age old question. One article is "Changing a Willingness to Make Love into a Desire to Make Love" and can be accessed at <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/ss/50-1.html" TARGET=_blank>http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/ss/50-1.html</A> <P>The other article is "How to Overcome Sexual Aversion" and is posted at <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi5047_qa.html" TARGET=_blank>http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi5047_qa.html</A> <P>Both of these articles show that if there is a will, there is a way.<P>Blessings!!

I think the big underlying problem is indeed the differences between men and women. Women need that affection...then sex. Foreplay doesn't start when the clothes go off and the lights go down. It starts with the silly little card left on the windshield in the AM, it continues with the phone call at lunchtime just to say I love you. The hug and "I'm so glad to be home with you" at dinner. The laughter doing dishes together, the sharing of the day no matter how bad, the "is this a cuddle night?" and knowing it's ok to say yes I'm exhausted...this is a more powerful aphrodisiac then any I've ever found.<BR>Men, on the otherhand, seem to associate sex then affection..they seem to connect with the act of sex, then let the affection get in there...Now, this is just my opinion and would love to hear from others is they agree or disagree.<BR>And??who raised the question about size..sure it matters, just like my breasts will never be as perky as the OW again, and I'm sure she has no stretch marks...those are all the things we really magnify in our minds after betrayal for sure! It's getting past our physical attributes. There's a chapter in the book Passionate Marriage that talks about sexual peaking..you know ..guys at 18, women at 35...well, I like his take on it...there's a big difference between "genital peaking" and sexual peaking...genital is the 18M/35F...sexual peaking is knowing yourself and your partner well enough body, mind and soul and really connecting...can happen at any age.<BR>Just a little more fuel for the fire of this thread.<BR>T<BR>