I'm so hurt and so angry. I feel like I'm going to explode with emotion. <P>DDay was 3/01/01. I've been in plan A ever since, and according to my H, I've done a wonderful job. We've both sought and are still in counseling with Dr. Harley. He's been great. I've read all the books and done the His Needs Her Needs and Love Busters questionaires with Dr. Harley. <P>Several times my H has committed to no contact with the OW and has fallen off the wagon. Yesterday, he finally wrote the no contact letter to OW and I sent it FEDEX today, to arrive tomorrow morning. I asked my H not to write the letter unless he were totally committed and was certain that he was ready. Wasn't that generous of me? He says that he loves me and can't live without me or the kids. We have been closer and more intimate than ever in the last 2 months. Just this afternoon my H asked me to take the letter out of the FEDEX box. He thought it wasn't right and that the letter was too cruel to OW. Can you belive that? Too cruel to the OW, but obviously not to cruel to me? I'm devastated. Every time he says he is going to end the relationship, he lies more and continues contact with the OW anyway. I had to beg him to admit to haveing contaceted her just today! I'm full-up with pain and hurt. My oldest son (10 years old) is in counseling because of the A. The OW is a mother of one of the girls in his school classroom and my son new about the A before I did! I'd like to kill my H and the OW. I know my emotions are running high, but I would just like to file for divorce and move to the other side of the country. Maybe then I can start dealing with the pain that H has inflicted and begin my life with my children anew. Without PAIN!<P>Can anybody out there offer me any peace of mind?

Well, one thing I can tell you is that moving across the country without your H won't give you the peace you think it will... sadly, it needs to be dealt with (which I think you're doing, just fine too).<P>Your H is being a poop. I'm sure you'd like to call him worse, and I don't blame you.<P>There will come a time when you won't question if it's best to divorce him. When that time comes, you'll know it, believe me. You aren't there yet. <P>Kill him, maybe. Divorce him, not yet.<P>My ex never did let go of the final (his fifth) OW. In fact, he's going on vacation with her next week. There came a time where I hit the wall emotionally. <P>So... in the meantime, post here, vent here...<P>By the way, did you take the letter out of the box? I couldn't tell by what you'd written, only that he wanted you to (which is ookie, by the way, and had to make you seeth!)...

Thanks for your reply. Don't take it personally, but I still don't feel better, and some how I think it will be a long time before I do. <P>I didn't take the letter out of the box. Even if I could have, I wouldn't. I want the OW to know what kind of games H is playing with both of us. She still belives that the only reason he hasn't left home and created a life with her is that he is staying for the kids sake. Which is total bull####! She has no idea that he wraps his arms around me everyday and says how much he loves me and that he can't live without me and doesn't understand himself why he turned to her and hurt me so much. She even believes that he is sleeping on the couch and not with me. Why do I get to be the lucky one to know all the details of the A why she lives in a fantasy world? It takes every thing I have to not call her and clue her into reality. What an idiot she is.<P>What should I expect now? And what do I do now besides cry and cry some more?<BR>

InLoveAndInPain,<P>I wish I could say that I have a guarantee, and all the superheros we wish to be in Maine's post wil come flying in to kill those awful moose brain worms and make it all better. I'm sorry for your pain, and your not alone, believe me. I've had the words I want a divorce on the end of my tongue so many times it's amazing I still have a tongue left after biting it down so hard!!<P>Thank god though, time does heal. Obviously it's not going to be able to really heal until you finally get the no contact in place though. This is the realy tough time, and the toughest time to advise anyone in. Obviously he is making some right steps, but also just as bviously he is still really not there. Keep posting, vent it out. It will pass. The one thing that kept me going was telling myself I cannot make such a major decision in anger, and gave myself permission to not make that decision until I felt better.<P>Good luck to you!! I trully do feel for you! Let's get out the MB frying pan tonite and give your H a big cyber smack on the head for making you do that!!<P>

Hi Ilaip,<P>Have you read Trueheart's letter to the WS? You might want to share it with you H. Since he is more attentive to you, the info in there may help him break it with the OW. Sounds like this OW is blaming you for him leaving her and that you are forcing him to write the letter. <P>One of the many excuses my H used. Yes, they do think they have to protect the feelings of the OW because it is a part of them out there also. See if you can explain to your H (not sure about this one), that OW is not a family member so saying no or go away to her would be like telling the fuller brush man that you are not interested in buy his merchandise. Get it? NON FAMILY MEMBER. Don't treat her like she is a family member. That is where your difference lies. <P>Be prepared for a backlash. If OW is the strong manipulating one in this relationship, she may come back with a vengence and that is what you H needs to see. He needs to break it off with OW because he wants and needs to not because he wants to please you. Only then will he explain it enough to break it off. <P>My H weakly told OW at least 5 times that he was going back to his family. It was so weak, I almost barfed. One time she called him within 1 hour after he told her and she agreed never to speak to each other again. Oh yea, this was after a lot of tears. Go figure!!!! <P>Since this is still relatively fresh for you the pain is more intense. OW may be jealous and in my case, OW called up during the 1st week and left over 30 voice mails and setup another secret voicemail account. That helped get them back to gether behind my back. Even got OW supposedly preg, then she supposedly miscarried. So don't underestimate the OW. Your H needs to prove to you not the other way around. <P>Take care of yourself. Let him do the work and cleanup. <P>L.<BR>

You ARE the lucky one to be hearing the truth about your H's A from him. . . he's lying to her & telling YOU the truth. Even though, I KNOW how yucky it is to have to hear the things he is telling you! But you have made you a safe place for him to talk. I too heard many things I did not want to hear, but it has paid off. It took months of his waffling, not wanting to completely let go of OW (yes, he cared about her feelings too. . even told me once, "she has feelings, too you know". . .I just said "I know she does". Barfed pretty much as soon as we got off the phone!!). But he just kept comming back more & more to me, b/c I listened, b/c I cared about his feelings, even though they made me feel rotten.<P>Please hang on, you are doing wonderfully if your H is talking to you, he's hugging you. It may take him a while to actually take that final plunge to have no contact w/OW, but I think he's getting there.

I'm doing better today. Thanks to all of you and the MB forum. The support is tremendous. <P>My H was very supportive of my pain and anger last night. He understands that he was responsible for putting me through this torture once again and was willing to accept that responsibility. He held me and I cried and shared and cried some more. He apoligized for responding to the OWs phone call yesterday and still feels that sending the letter was cruel and would have wished to have ended it by phone. <P>I know that I have to be the strong one why he works his way through the fog. Unfortunately, I feel like my strength is running out. I find myself falling apart more often now than on DDay.<P>I don't trust that he will call her and tell her to ignor the letter. I know that in his mind, he still feels very weak and he himself knows that he will fall off the wagon and contact her, knowing that it will kill me. He states that he knows that he has to end it with her and that the A is a fantasy that will go nowhere. But that he has feelings for her and cares for her. He doesn't want to hurt her. <P>So why is it OK to hurt me??????? <P>Orchid,<BR>I did read TrueHeart's letter and thought it was great. I also infomed H that I would like to read it to him this evening. He was very open to the idea.<P>I am prepared for a backlash from OW. I have pulled my kids out of the private school that they have attended now for over 7 years and has been in my H's family for over 45 years. (H graduated from same school 33 years ago) I know she is waiting to be able to see me on campus with our kids once school restarts in August so that she can stalk me as she did at the end of the school year in April-June. She's sick!<P>How much longer will this last? I feel like a piece of me dies everyday.......

I'm doing better today. Thanks to all of you and the MB forum. The support is tremendous. <P>My H was very supportive of my pain and anger last night. He understands that he was responsible for putting me through this torture once again and was willing to accept that responsibility. He held me and I cried and shared and cried some more. He apoligized for responding to the OWs phone call yesterday and still feels that sending the letter was cruel and would have wished to have ended it by phone. <P>I know that I have to be the strong one why he works his way through the fog. Unfortunately, I feel like my strength is running out. I find myself falling apart more often now than on DDay.<P>I don't trust that he will call her and tell her to ignor the letter. I know that in his mind, he still feels very weak and he himself knows that he will fall off the wagon and contact her, knowing that it will kill me. He states that he knows that he has to end it with her and that the A is a fantasy that will go nowhere. But that he has feelings for her and cares for her. He doesn't want to hurt her. <P>So why is it OK to hurt me??????? <P>Orchid,<BR>I did read TrueHeart's letter and thought it was great. I also infomed H that I would like to read it to him this evening. He was very open to the idea.<P>I am prepared for a backlash from OW. I have pulled my kids out of the private school that they have attended now for over 7 years and has been in my H's family for over 45 years. (H graduated from same school 33 years ago) I know she is waiting to be able to see me on campus with our kids once school restarts in August so that she can stalk me as she did at the end of the school year in April-June. She's sick!<P>How much longer will this last? I feel like a piece of me dies everyday.......

I'm doing better today. Thanks to all of you and the MB forum. The support is tremendous. <P>My H was very supportive of my pain and anger last night. He understands that he was responsible for putting me through this torture once again and was willing to accept that responsibility. He held me and I cried and shared and cried some more. He apoligized for responding to the OWs phone call yesterday and still feels that sending the letter was cruel and would have wished to have ended it by phone. <P>I know that I have to be the strong one why he works his way through the fog. Unfortunately, I feel like my strength is running out. I find myself falling apart more often now than on DDay.<P>I don't trust that he will call her and tell her to ignor the letter. I know that in his mind, he still feels very weak and he himself knows that he will fall off the wagon and contact her, knowing that it will kill me. He states that he knows that he has to end it with her and that the A is a fantasy that will go nowhere. But that he has feelings for her and cares for her. He doesn't want to hurt her. <P>So why is it OK to hurt me??????? <P>Orchid,<BR>I did read TrueHeart's letter and thought it was great. I also infomed H that I would like to read it to him this evening. He was very open to the idea.<P>I am prepared for a backlash from OW. I have pulled my kids out of the private school that they have attended now for over 7 years and has been in my H's family for over 45 years. (H graduated from same school 33 years ago) I know she is waiting to be able to see me on campus with our kids once school restarts in August so that she can stalk me as she did at the end of the school year in April-June. She's sick!<P>How much longer will this last? I feel like a piece of me dies everyday.......

I'm doing better today. Thanks to all of you and the MB forum. The support is tremendous. <P>My H was very supportive of my pain and anger last night. He understands that he was responsible for putting me through this torture once again and was willing to accept that responsibility. He held me and I cried and shared and cried some more. He apoligized for responding to the OWs phone call yesterday and still feels that sending the letter was cruel and would have wished to have ended it by phone. <P>I know that I have to be the strong one why he works his way through the fog. Unfortunately, I feel like my strength is running out. I find myself falling apart more often now than on DDay.<P>I don't trust that he will call her and tell her to ignor the letter. I know that in his mind, he still feels very weak and he himself knows that he will fall off the wagon and contact her, knowing that it will kill me. He states that he knows that he has to end it with her and that the A is a fantasy that will go nowhere. But that he has feelings for her and cares for her. He doesn't want to hurt her. <P>So why is it OK to hurt me??????? <P>Orchid,<BR>I did read TrueHeart's letter and thought it was great. I also infomed H that I would like to read it to him this evening. He was very open to the idea.<P>I am prepared for a backlash from OW. I have pulled my kids out of the private school that they have attended now for over 7 years and has been in my H's family for over 45 years. (H graduated from same school 33 years ago) I know she is waiting to be able to see me on campus with our kids once school restarts in August so that she can stalk me as she did at the end of the school year in April-June. She's sick!<P>How much longer will this last? I feel like a piece of me dies everyday.......

I'm doing better today. Thanks to all of you and the MB forum. The support is tremendous. <P>My H was very supportive of my pain and anger last night. He understands that he was responsible for putting me through this torture once again and was willing to accept that responsibility. He held me and I cried and shared and cried some more. He apoligized for responding to the OWs phone call yesterday and still feels that sending the letter was cruel and would have wished to have ended it by phone. <P>I know that I have to be the strong one why he works his way through the fog. Unfortunately, I feel like my strength is running out. I find myself falling apart more often now than on DDay.<P>I don't trust that he will call her and tell her to ignor the letter. I know that in his mind, he still feels very weak and he himself knows that he will fall off the wagon and contact her, knowing that it will kill me. He states that he knows that he has to end it with her and that the A is a fantasy that will go nowhere. But that he has feelings for her and cares for her. He doesn't want to hurt her. <P>So why is it OK to hurt me??????? <P>Orchid,<BR>I did read TrueHeart's letter and thought it was great. I also infomed H that I would like to read it to him this evening. He was very open to the idea.<P>I am prepared for a backlash from OW. I have pulled my kids out of the private school that they have attended now for over 7 years and has been in my H's family for over 45 years. (H graduated from same school 33 years ago) I know she is waiting to be able to see me on campus with our kids once school restarts in August so that she can stalk me as she did at the end of the school year in April-June. She's sick!<P>How much longer will this last? I feel like a piece of me dies everyday....... :

I'm doing better today. Thanks to all of you and the MB forum. The support is tremendous. <P>My H was very supportive of my pain and anger last night. He understands that he was responsible for putting me through this torture once again and was willing to accept that responsibility. He held me and I cried and shared and cried some more. He apologized for responding to the OW’s phone call yesterday and still feels that sending the letter was cruel and would have wished to have ended it by phone. <P>I know that I have to be the strong one why he works his way through the fog. Unfortunately, I feel like my strength is running out. I find myself falling apart more often now than on DDay.<P>I don't trust that he will call her and tell her to ignore the letter. I know that in his mind, he still feels very weak and he himself knows that he will fall off the wagon and contact her, knowing that it will kill me. He states that he knows that he has to end it with her and that the A is a fantasy that will go nowhere. But that he has feelings for her and cares for her. He doesn't want to hurt her. <P>So why is it OK to hurt me??????? <P>Orchid,<BR>I did read TrueHeart's letter and thought it was great. I also informed H that I would like to read it to him this evening. He was very open to the idea.<P>I am prepared for a backlash from OW. I have pulled our kids out of the private school that they have attended now for over 7 years and has been in my H's family for over 45 years. (H graduated from same school 33 years ago) I know she is waiting to be able to see me on campus with our kids once school restarts in August so that she can stalk me as she did at the end of the school year in April-June. She's sick!<P>How much longer will this last? I feel like a piece of me dies everyday....... :<BR>

I'm doing better today. Thanks to all of you and the MB forum. The support is tremendous. <P>My H was very supportive of my pain and anger last night. He understands that he was responsible for putting me through this torture once again and was willing to accept that responsibility. He held me and I cried and shared and cried some more. He apologized for responding to the OW’s phone call yesterday and still feels that sending the letter was cruel and would have wished to have ended it by phone. <P>I know that I have to be the strong one why he works his way through the fog. Unfortunately, I feel like my strength is running out. I find myself falling apart more often now than on DDay.<P>I don't trust that he will call her and tell her to ignore the letter. I know that in his mind, he still feels very weak and he himself knows that he will fall off the wagon and contact her, knowing that it will kill me. He states that he knows that he has to end it with her and that the A is a fantasy that will go nowhere. But that he has feelings for her and cares for her. He doesn't want to hurt her. <P>So why is it OK to hurt me??????? <P>Orchid,<BR>I did read TrueHeart's letter and thought it was great. I also informed H that I would like to read it to him this evening. He was very open to the idea.<P>I am prepared for a backlash from OW. I have pulled our kids out of the private school that they have attended now for over 7 years and has been in my H's family for over 45 years. (H graduated from same school 33 years ago) I know she is waiting to be able to see me on campus with our kids once school restarts in August so that she can stalk me as she did at the end of the school year in April-June. She's sick!<P>How much longer will this last? I feel like a piece of me dies everyday....... :<BR>

Hi everyone!<P>Well, unfortunately today seems to be no better than the last several days. <P>My H did call OW and chose to help her to feel better about having received the no contact letter. Prior to his sending her the no contact letter, our agreement (per Dr. Harley)wass to agree to a plan to recover our marriage which included permanent separation from OW, or he continue his plan to stay in contact with OW and I would implement my plan which is PLAN B. Of course, he thought that PLAN B sucked and felt that he would die if he had to leave me and or the kids. So to avoid PLAN B, he appeased me and wrote the no contact letter. I had a strong feeling that he was not 100% committed to the no contact letter, and sh##, I was right.<P>So, today he is packing and moving into his parents home. He hasn't begun to pack, but says that he will take what he needs for tonight and will be back each day to get what he needs. I balked at that and informed that that was fine for today (he's short of time and needs to get to work) but that would not be aceptable beyond today. <P>In our relationship, I've always been the stronger, more decisive one. H has always relied on me and leaned heavily on me to basically be his mother figure. I informed him that he needed to take responsibility for what he has done to our marriage and our kids future. First by seeking counseling to deal with the issues that are causing him to be so indecisive and feel like a constant failure, and secondly to help him heal from himself. I also informed him that I love him with all my heart and will be here for him when he is ready. We both cried, hugged and kissed each other and made arrangements for the next couple of weeks re: the kids and our finances.<P>Can anybody relate to what I'm going through? <P>I feel numb and somehow also relieved. I now know that when he contacts OW, I won't know and that will lessen the daily pain that H has inflicted on me regularly. Not knowing when and where and how he contacts her provides me with such a sense of relief. Does that make sense? <P>Can anybody suggest how I get through these next weeks/months without the love of my life?

Sit down and make a plan for each day, and then NO MATTER how you feel - do it. Include the kids and time for yourself. <P>You will get through it. Don't let him back until after he writes the no contact letter and delivers it. Not on the promise that he will do it.<P>Good luck.<BR>HbH

Thanks, HbH. Your message really helps. <P>Yes the kids and I have made plans to go out to dinner tonight, and vist Alcatraz in San Francisco this weekend. I know that making plans with my kids and my sister (my sister and I are very close) and working out at the gym will help to distract me from the pain. <P>I've written the PLAN B letter for H and will send it to him next week, per Dr.Harley. I've pretty much already said aloud to him what the letter says, but hopefully the letter will reinforce the ideas.<P>Is there anyone out there who has sent the PLAN B letter and if so what was the response from your WS?

Hiya InLove...<P>First off....congrats for being strong and following Dr. Harleys principles, which do work!! It may take some time, but they are designed to help you grow through all of this, as well as repair your M. <P>Secondly, I hope your H reads that letter! I hope it strikes a chord in him and stirs the fog. All I can offer you about the Plan B letter is be strong and don't waiver. I see WS as students in my classroom that will test my limits to see if what I say is truth or if hot air. He needs to understand you are driven by love, not anger. He needs to understand the depth of what he has done and how much he is loved by you. He needs to see that the OW is smoke and mirrors. I wish you the best!!<P>*Go confidently in the direction of your dreams.*<P>Trueheart

Thanks TrueHeart for your words of encouragement. <P>It is hard. A big part of me wants to wrap my arms around H and tell him that everything will be alright. I need to feel his love and be loved. That's why PLAN B is as hard for me as it is for him. <P>I just recently left him a message on his voicemail letting him know of an appt we have with our son's counselor that we both have to be in attenedance for. He called me at work and was upset that I didn't say I love you and I miss you. I find it difficult to be intimately responsive on a voicemail message when I'm supposed to be practicing PLAN B, which is no contact with the exception of the kids and our finances. I want him to know that I love him always and to not give up on taking care of himself, getting rid of OW, and coming home to our marriage.<P>Should I leave terms of endearment on my messages or when we do speak by phone?

InLove...<P>I would let H know that right now, you would love to be able to say those things, but you cant. If you are in Plan B, then be in it fully! I would tell H that you cannot feel comfortable right now with those terms of endearment until such time as he is totally committed to the M and you. When he can write and deliver the NO Contact letter, when he can commit to you and the M, and you have let him come home, then tell him how much you missed him and love him. By you giving him that now, it fills a need and enables him to keep the safety net in place. If he needs to go *find himself*, then you cannot put yourself in a position of giving yourself hope, only to have him take it away by seeing OW. So, tell him, even though you love him with all your heart, you are not going to give him that type of leeway in this M. <P>Just my opinion, but as a WS, I would hate hearing that and would rather work to hear what I want!<P>*Go confidently in the direction of your dreams.*<P>Trueheart

TrueHeart,<P>I hear what you are saying. But we are talking about a man that is very needy and very weak....has even threaten suicide a couple of times if we separate. He feels so unloved and is so worried that I will have an A because of what he has done to me. I've never given him any reason to believe that I would be unfaithful, nor am I interested in responding to our marital problems by having an A myself. He is constantly jealous if another man looks at or talks to me. He always wants to know where I am and what I'm doing. Dr Harley said that I should provide him with answers to his questions because I could act as a role model for him in terms of what I expect in return in order to build my trust in him. Remember, H had the affair, not me. Go figure.<P>I have told him more times in just the last 24 hours that I love him and I will wait for him. But it takes only a moment of silence from me to him to undo all of that. <P>The burden that I bare to keep him, myself and the kids going is exhausting. <P>Has anyone else experienced this type of WS?