ok so ill start from the begining to give a full perspective, i searched for a site like this praying to get honest, objective helpfull opinons. from what ive read their here if available.<BR>about 2 weeks ago i came home to use our computer and saw that my wife had left it running while signed on under her name. nothing new there weve had this pc for over 3yrs, and i usually just click it her stuff and pay no attention to what she was doing, have done this dozens of times (had no reason proir to not trust her or so i thought). anyway as im about to sign her off i notice her email screen is up and thers at least 13-15 emails to the same person. no big deal i reasoned intially because id recognized the name, this guy was supposed to be a counselor for her brother as well as a coworker. what drew my attention was the greetings of the emails. they were much to personable to be just work related. so curiosity got the best of me and i began to read. <BR>of course u can pretty much tell what i found out by my presence in this site. turns out theyd been seein each other quite frequently outside of work and were intimate with each other. my nerves were so bad after readin this i was literally shaking. keepin y composure till i heard what shed have to say was my main focus nonetheless. <BR>when she came home with the kids (2 boys ages 3-7), i waited till the kids were put to bed and asked her to come to look at something on the computer with me. id left it runnin under her screen name as i had a feelin of what she might try to do (human nature, id forwared the emails to my account). as i opened the 1st email and asked her to explain what this wa her immediate response was "what was i doing reading her email!" she then jumped up and tryed to get physical while she deleted them. i of course sat back and let her. i know she was in shock by her expression and actions. <BR>i then proceeded to ask or confront her on what id read (she not knowing id emailed them to myself), she of course claimed amnesia. i told her how ifound them an that id forwarded them to myself so that we could go over them together she as exspected refused. <BR>i asked her several questions as she spilled out lie after lie to my face (weve been marrried 9yrs, each lie felt like a sword hitting me across the chest). but one question in particular seemed to really bother her. i ask if he was married. she intially claimed he wasnt, and that he wasnt seein anyone else as far as she knew. now to put this in another perspective me and my wife have had for a long time problem stemming from a past relationship shortly before out marriage. <BR>i did get in contact over the phone with him as i knew his name and she was un willing to give me his number herself, siting that our problem had nothing to do with him. i dis agree, because when i called this person to ask him the always intial question of wether hed slept with my wife his response was "well who are u sleeping with"? seems he knows we havent slpet together in a while and turns out shes divuled to him alot of other thins concernin our personal life. know wether he asked or she volunteered doesnt matter to me at this point. but of course he said no (turns out hes married also). my wife later comes back and confesses that hed told her he was seperated from his wif for a while now. when i looked up his phone number she was listed under the same address....? he also told my wife he lived in an area of town in which he didnt. when i tryed to bring this to my wifes attention she acted as if she really didnt care (think maybe she knew all along and was just tryn to through me off).<BR>i told he i wanted a divorce after listenin to 40mins of her lies. she proceeds to go into tears claimin she doenst want a divorce. after calmin down the next day i told her that if she didnt want a divorce shed have to set up our counseling ( that was a week ago). still no counseling. i asked her 2days ago if she and he were still in contact, she claims he left her a voice mail and she responded, thats been there only contact. (i feel in my heart of hearts shes lying to me). <BR>ive also tryed to call him and set up a time so that we could meet face to face, he left me a voice mial and hasnt called back since. i really want to find out if he is still married or not, callit a pride thing as i maybe a lil more understanding i guess if its a single man messing with a married woman (i know it doenst make a difference), but if he has a wife i feel as though she deserves to know shes beein played like i am.<BR>i ask my wife the other day durin our deep convo if she loved me, she replied yes. i asked her if she loved him she claimed she didnt know. i ask her if she wanted to stay married she said she didnt know. am i supposed to wait till she makes up her mind? if after 9yrs she feels shesgot to make a choie then ill make it for her is how i feel. <BR>and yes she sites the usual: you dont hold me. u dont touch me right, you dont listen to what i have to say.<BR>thats a cop out in this scenario i assure u folks, my wife came into this marriage with more than a lil bit of luggage, i used to pride myself on my patience and undersanding of what she told me she was goin through at whatever time. but for her to repeat over and over what ever it was and for me to have to come up with 100s of solutions on a regular about things i knew wed already dicussed, coupled with a nonexistant sex life, wore me down.<BR>thing is if i was such a terrible husband to make her go do thsi, why didnt she just leave me?<BR> am i wrong to want to meet him, i know there still keepin in contact?<BR>

I will tell you that you probably don't want to meet him. I've been there and done that NOT by my choice and things can get volitale and one of you or both of you will go to jail. <P>Please read my situation at <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/forum/Forum37/HTML/010792.html" TARGET=_blank>http://www.marriagebuilders.com/forum/Forum37/HTML/010792.html</A> . <P>I have been where you are at and believe me, you sound like me... you don't want yourself to go where I did. I am lucky that I am alive, with my children and my wife, although we are still seperated... I didn't go to jail, but there were times that I suppose if I'd gone alittle farther, I would have.<P>Read what is on the site and buy the book. Sit with her and discuss, gently what you did to cause this also. Yes... you helped cause this.. she is wrong for acting on it, but you both were wrong somewhere along the way. To keep her, you are going to have to button down and find some gentleness, meekness, patience, a loving spirit and God. All of those things will come and go with fits of anger, depression, rage and thoughts of suicide. Make sure you have a plan... the MB plan is a good one and stick to it. I didn't and now I am paying for it. <P>H2Y<BR>

She didn't leave you because you are still fulfilling your some or most of her needs. Now this OM is fulfilling some of them. You need to figure out, through the MB plan which needs your not meeting and correct those issues with yourself, before she will leave him. If she runs home and you haven't resolved those needs, she will leave over and over and over and over again. Believe me, you don't want that.<P>Take your time, don't do the stupid **** that I did.

Hi dennard,<P>I can really relate to what you're going through. We also have 2 boys (4 and 6). We've also been married 9 years. The OM for my WS is the hubby of one of her friends.<P>When I approached my WS with the evidence and asked her to explain what was going on, she reacted in exactly the same way your wife did. She behaved like a cornered animal - her eyes were wild, her mouth dry and one lie poured out of her mouth after the other. I was so shocked by how she reacted I was actually calm. She also told me I was despicable, pathetic, no fun and all the rest of that garbage. Very, very painful stuff. D-Day for me was mid-July this year.<P>For me, I'm concentrating on my relationship with my WS. I've decided that at this time, it's not going to help to approach the OM - a so called friend. My WS would see this as a big LB and it might drive her away from me before we can sort this out. And, what's the OM gonna tell me that's going to help me and my relationship - I suspect nothing.<P>No, this is my responsibility. I feel like I've let my wife down in some big way. I just have to work out what these ways are. It can't be materially - she really can't complain there - but emotionally. And I've found this MB stuff really helpful for me to understand and put in perspective some of the emotional stuff. Both her needs, and mine.<P>I've also taken positive actions. HN/HN says we need to spend 15 hours a week together - no Kids, no friends. So I've been doing this (trying at least). This last weekend, I arranged the babysitter (her mum) Friday night. I took my wife to a really nice bar - and we talked. And talked. And talked. We haven't done this in a long time - mainly because life gets in the way, kids, job, family, you know the stuff. I even took the chance and kissed her passionately right there in the middle of the bar. She never stopped me (she actually returned the kiss) but said 'you haven't done that in a long time'.<P>Saturday, we ran together in the morning. I took her shopping in the afternoon - treated her to some nice jewelry - and then had a family evening. On Sunday, again just the family and then in the evening, when the boys were in bed, a bottle of wine and talk, talk, talk.<P>Last night - I took my wife to a concert (Mozart) - and we finished the evening in a wine bar. Last night was the best night we've had together in ages. <P>I've arranged to have the boys at her mums and booked a weekend away for us - just the two of us. I got her involved in the decision and she's overjoyed. We've also booked a family vacation at the end of September. <P>It's hard, hard work and the pain, humiliation and bitterness is hard to handle but focus on your wife and your relationship - don't focus on the OM. Accept you're also to blame for what happened and try this MB stuff - it really does seem to work.<P>Hang in there dennard - I'm with you man.<BR>- Paul.<P><BR>

Dennard,<P>I recommend checking out the Plan A/Plan B material. I would also recommend talking to Steve. Your situation is similar to mine and both above is helping. I'm not through it yet but viewing the posts in the Plan A/Plan B Forum, it is very encouraging. These plans are all about patience. <P>The affair is all about our WS having some needs filled by us and some by OM. Plan A will show your W that we can fill them all. We BS's will eventually meet all of our WS's needs when they get their head out of the fog--the fog that makes the affair desireable. SAA compares an affair to an addiction. So hang in there.<P>You're not alone. Stick with it and try and develop a Plan A with Steve. <p>[This message has been edited by mikenu (edited July 19, 2001).]

Dear dennard,<BR>First of all, let me say that I'm so sorry you are going through this mess. You were smart to save the e-mails so you can know the truth, BUT... I don't believe that you really want to keep them around and keep reading over them because what's the use in that, you know? It will only hurt you more.<P>Also, does it really matter to you what the guy looks like? Won't that simply anger you further? Do you really want to put yourself through that right now while you are so upset about everything?<P>I could be wrong because I have not walked a mile in your shoes, but it sounds like your wife told you that she needs more affection and conversation from you. You asked if you should tread water while your wife goes through the fog? I think you have to if you want to keep a stable family for your kids. They are worth it, huh? It's not fair, but it can work and in the meantime, while you are waiting (on God), HE will strengthen you! <P>The reason why I came to this site (just stumbled on it), is because we were having marital problems. We reached a stage of conflict where I had withdrawn so badly that I was not interested in meeting any of my husband's needs--albeit, I didn't even know what they were! When I found the emotional needs questionnaire, we began to both go through the questions and set dates where we could sit down together and read our answers and the information turned out lives around. Then, we would just print gobs of MB info, take it with us on dates and devour it. <P>I knew he needed sex and recreational companionship, but not as much as was revealed in the questionnaire. He knew I needed affection and conversation, but not to the degree that we discovered in MB questionnaire. It is very detailed and you get to really find out where you stand.<P>Since you guys are both in a stage of conflict right now, it is probably best if you just wait until things simmer down. Wait until you can be rational and I know it's tough because both of you are in such an emotional state but you have to try and wait. Otherwise, you will do or say things out of the wrong spirit. (Be angry and sin not...)<P>Another thing, sometimes there ARE no solutions. Sometimes we just have to give each other a big hug with a little pat on the back and just reassure each other that things will get better because GOD is in control, not the circumstances. Hang in there!

id like to 1st thank each of you very much readin and responding to my post, your input has been priceless for me, and has helped me to sort out all kinds of thoughts. i feel as though im losing my mind at this point.<BR>we sat down 2 nights ago with her not intendin to discuss this but i couldnt help it. so i began by asking her if she loved me, her reponse was yes, i asked her if she wanted a divorce she says she doenst know, i asked her if she loved him she claims she doenst know (i feel that by that answer she may but is afraid itll make things worse by admitting to such). i asked her if shes broken it off with him to which she replys that they communicate through voice mail but havent seen wach other (doenst make since if after 5months of messing around all of a sudden now they cant seem to catch each other), does this sound crazy or it just me. doesnt sound like she has plans on closure to me. she says we should go to counseling, will that setting help her to be honest with me?

Hi dennard,<P>I don't know if counseling will help her tell you the truth and I don't know if she told you the truth it will help you. From my perspective, I didn't get the truth from my Wife, she still doesn't tell me everything (or anything) about the OM and her feelings and now I've stopped asking. It's hard to get it (the A) out of my head and it's really hard to stop that flood of nasty thoughts but I'm trying. It's as though with each passing day, I'm able to cope a little better.<P>Early on, I was able to establish that my wife didn't romantically love me anymore - actually I hadn't realised that there were different levels of love. For me, love is love. Anyways, it hurt and she said she loves me but we take this to mean more of a long friendship type of love. With the help and guidance of MB I've been able to do some things which have really helped. Romantically that is.<P>This whole situation has also caused me to reflect very hard on my own behaviour - and, it pains me to say this but I have to admit that I haven't been easy to love. No excuses - and I could give thousands - but it's a fact. I surprised my wife by hitting this head on, and I appologised for hurting her and letting her down. <P>At first she didn't react - she kinda sat there stunned. Now, weeks into Plan A I feel her moving towards me. She even appologised for her own behaviour and she is keeping her part of the deal: She hasn't contacted the OM although I know he's contacted her (once in the last 2 weeks).<P>I can't force her to break the contact with him but I'm hoping that in time she'll come to do this herself.<P>It's real hard dennard but hang in there - if your wife is anything like mine, she'll be as confused as hell. Get yourselves a copy of His Needs Her Needs and start reading it together - Harley is bang on in so many ways and so many places.<P>- Paul.<P>

Yeah, I agree with Freddy that counseling won't guarantee that your wife will be open and honest. Take it one day at a time and don't think so far out into the future that you start to get confused. Take one small step at a time and Harley's Steps to Rebuild Romantic Love is a great and practical workbook to incorporate into your strategy. God bless!

thanks Bin & Freddy, your points of view are priceless at this time for me. about the day to day behavior, its exactly what i have to do. meanwhile she carries on (or attempts) regular everyday conversation as if none of this never happened. this leaves me feeling humiliated, mad, and just adds to the hurt. i dont understand how she can do that, leaving me to feel as if ive not really known her at all for the past 9 yrs. <BR>i realize now that my situation and what i may be sayin is not unique at all. throughout our entire marriage when ever there was a problem she wouldnt hesitate or would make it an issue to discuss. of course lookin back most of the time these issues would include somethin i did or hadnt done, guess it made it easier for her to blame whatever problem on me over and over.<BR>but this is the most crucial thing we'll have to over come as a married couple and i dont feel as though shes tryn to salvage anything about this marriage.<BR>she found in my truck the other day an apartment book. asking me about it i replied that i had it for whenever she decided what she wanted to do, that if astayin married wasnt part of the plan then id be prepared (which iam). her response was one of supposed shock and saddness (not sure if she was just acting sad to say).<BR>im gettin tired of waitnin on her to decide if she wants to stay married to me, its almost an insult.

dennard,<P>don't wait - you need to be plan Aing your heart out. This way you make her know that you want her. She still has to make her own decisions but you can show her that you've made yours. Have you got yourself a good Plan A ?<P>To give an example, part of her problem with me is that I've put on too much weight. Stress at work has been enormous (for the past couple of years) and I've been enjoying a beer or two when I get home. She never said no to the large paycheck at the end of the month and she never stopped 0enjoying the money. But I'm still overweight !!! Anyways, I had her tell me what she wanted me to weigh and it meant I have to loose 22lbs - ouch !!!! So, I've attacked the problem and I've dropped 16lbs in the last 4-5 weeks. 6lbs to go to my target. Hard work but it's paying off - AND, get this, she's interested in making love with me again - not just willing (like the sacrificial lamb) but interested (if you know what I mean).<P>Get Plan Aing. <P>

I also know what you mean about wanting brief contact with OM. Although I've had a tiny, but envigorating, encounter with him when W flew him in with her to my town. He denied his name and ran, so there's a real conversation buster there. I STILL want to call and calmly reenforce the fact that there is a reality and that I am connected to it. I can't imagine that the whole A thing is nearly as much fun when the BS calls occationally. Any thoughts?<BR>

If your wife does not know whether she wants to stay married that usually means she wants to see what will develop with the OM and wants you to stay on the sideline just in case. In my opinion, your wife should be begging you to forgive her not doing you a favor by staying around. She should have stopped all contact with the OM. If you allow yourself to be treated as a second place choice than you will be a second place choice.