For those your WS involve in a A with a co-worker. <BR>Office romances which destory our marriage could be the toughest situation we are facing today. Yet, the company rarely take any actions to stop it from happening( or stop it when it happened). <BR>Hope this poll give us some lights and help us face it in some ways. Thank you!<P>1. Does/Did your spouse involve in A with a co-worker?<P>2. Is your marriage in recovery today? <P>3. If yes, Is your WS still working with the OP?<P>4. Do you feel in order to get a marriage back in track, the WS must change jobs? <P>5. Would you like to share some thoughts or your story to help those of us facing this tough situation?

Good idea for a poll. From what I've read on these forums, the majority of A's seem to involve encounters at work, usually involving co-workers but sometimes clients. <P>1. Yes H had EA on its way to becoming PA with a woman who worked for a company that had a contract with the company H worked for.<BR> <BR>2. Yes marriage is in recovery today. Praise God!!!<P>3. No WS is NOT still working with OW! Thank the Lord!<P>4.I think changing jobs goes a long way towards enforcing the No Contact rule. It certainly helped in our case. Yet the possibility of H encountering OW on another jobsite remains. H does not have feelings for her anymore and hopes he never sees her again. <BR> I have read on these forums where changing jobs to avoid OP is not financially feasible and it seems to work if both spouses are determined to make it work and practice the policy of Radical Honesty. I don't want to have to be in this situation though.<P>5. My H works in a traditionally male-dominated industry yet this did not offer him protection from an A with a co-worker. I firmly believe it is not lack of opportunity from outside factors which protects marriages from infidelity but rather the committment of both spouses to maintain and work for the marriage to remain healthy through the long haul. You know.... For richer, For poorer etc. etc. <BR> Our marriage had deteriorated to the point where, according to Harley's criteria, either of us was ripe for an A.<BR> My Christian faith held me to honouring my marriage vows and trying to work on the marriage. <BR> However my H allowed his dissatisfaction to grow. He stubbornly refused to make any serious effort at improving our marriage. He withdrew further and further.He was not looking to have an A but when he encountered this flirtatious young man-eater at work, he was ripe for the picking. <BR> When the fog lifted and he realized he stood to lose everything - wife, children, home, extended family, $$$ THEN he finally decided to make an effort at saving the marriage.<BR> Now he is so grateful that his life did not become another case of "Don't know what you've got til it's gone..." like so many others.

1. Does/Did your spouse involve in A with a co-worker? Yes, my wife is in love with a gay man. EA only<P>2. Is your marriage in recovery today? Not yet. <P>3. If yes, Is your WS still working with the OP? yes<P>4. Do you feel in order to get a marriage back in track, the WS must change jobs? She's looking, but only because she doesn't have enough work to do.<P>5. Would you like to share some thoughts or your story to help those of us facing this tough situation? At this point, I don't have any good suggestions other than recognize it early and make it clear you are hurt by the behavior. It took me about three years to accept that it really was an "affair." I believed the "just good friends" lines and thought that if it wasn't physical it wasn't an affair. <BR>

Yes, H had A with co worker for 2 yrs.<BR> <BR>2 We are trying hard to work through this, H says he has put it behind him, can't recall her face. I only found out it was a PA early in June, before that was told it was only lunches, business. <BR> <BR>3 OW and H quit jobs a couple days apart, H has different job, OW moved away.<P>4 It definately changed his attitude, almost immediately once she was gone. <P>5 H changed jobs after 32 years, to managment position. OW was office manager. They started to stay late, talking and within a few weeks H made a pass. They had sex in the conference room at least 3X a wk. I saw this OW socially once in awhile and she had a cold attitude that I never understood. <BR>H needed to go out of town to convention, asked her to to with him. They days together the week-end our great grand son was born. H got home, went to hospital to see baby, photos of this now haunt me because I know he came right from OW. <BR>H says affair built up to peak for about 8 months, then started to taper off, OW wanted more motels and dinners, but H didn't want that. They had one more motel stay, business, but had adjoining rooms. H was really having guilt by then (I was in treatment for cancer) and they argued. Shortly after that OW asked H to get his stuff together and leave me, he said no, that was never his intention. That ended it for her. He still tried to get her to stay after work but she would only talk. <BR>During this time H was distant, critical and not intimate. I asked if there was someone else, early on, suspected this OW. He lied right up until this June when I told him I had proof. I always had to prove something in order for him to fess up. The affair started in summer 98, ended summer 00, DD was June 01. <BR>H totally repentant, I have a lot of problems with triggers, and trust, but hoping this will ease with time.

Just a quick word from someone who found out too late about your Question #4:<P>The WS <B>MUST</B> find another job, in my opinion. There are many reasons, the most important being - <P><UL TYPE=SQUARE>*It pours salt into the wound of BS every time you go to work<P>*It keeps a flame, even if very small, alive<P>*The OP (OM or OW) sees WS daily, which keeps THEIR flame alive<P>*The OP sees how marriage is progressing, which in the case of a difficult recovery, can give them a sense of hope, and a chance to meet EN's<P></UL><P>In my case, I worked with the OM, and I have told this story so many times I'm sure ya'll are sick of it... but for those that haven't heard it, here goes...<P>I left my job to move with (and marry) my new H. My ex-H could never forgive my affair, and we divorced (so much more to the story, like his continued infidelities). Anywho, I left my job, finally, and on the last day there, OM came to me and said this:<P>"I loved you then, I love you now, I will always love you"<P>This, after 18 months of working side-by-side with him, the affair OVER the entire time.<P>No wonder my then-marriage was doomed to survive!<P>Now, I go out into the world (okay, a bit dramatic) and say - YOU CANNOT WORK WITH THE OP AND GET OVER THE AFFAIR. <P>**Same goes for attending the same church, same civic group or hobby group, same neighborhood -- MOVE, out of STATE if you have to...

<P>1. Does/Did your spouse involve in A with a co-worker?>><P>They did work together but the affair didn't start until shortly AFTER she got let go fromt he company. I guess my H thought it wouldnt' be "professional" to boink the office temps lol.<P>2. Is your marriage in recovery today?<P>2 years and going strong! <P>3. If yes, Is your WS still working with the OP?>><P>god no.<P>4. Do you feel in order to get a marriage back in track, the WS must change jobs?>><P>If my H had still been working with the OW there is no way I could have handled that. No way. The first six months I was a wreck when he rant to the gas station for 5 minutes. If I'd known he was going to see her at work every day I would have gone insane. <P><BR>

<B><BR>1. Does/Did your spouse involve in A with a co-worker?</B><BR>Yes, it did.<BR><B>2. Is your marriage in recovery today? </B><BR>Again, yes.<BR><B>3. If yes, Is your WS still working with the OP?</B><BR>No, real recovery started when several months after d-day she was fired and no longer saw him daily.<BR><B>4. Do you feel in order to get a marriage back in track, the WS must change jobs?</B><BR>There are exceptions to most rules. Take, for instance, the idea that one must eat less to lose weight. You can lose on 7,000 calories a day--if you're competing in the<BR>Tour de France. In our case the loss of daily contact on the job made a big difference.<BR><B><BR>5. Would you like to share some thoughts or your story to help those of us facing this tough situation?</B><BR>Not every employer/boss is without morals. I found out not long after she was fired that he had lost his job. An employee of over a decade, I believe. In my wife's<BR>case no mention was made of the A in re her firing, but we can read between the lines.<P>Only other thought I have at the moment is watch out for spouses socializing a lot after work without their spouse coming along. Seems to be both a danger sign and <BR>a breeding ground.<P>Steve<p>[This message has been edited by StillHers (edited July 20, 2001).]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by trying to live2:<BR><B><BR>1. Does/Did your spouse involve in A with a co-worker?<BR></B><BR>Yes, When I owned a technology company, I asked my wife to take a job in the sales and marketing department so she could travel with me to trade shows and to see clients. She had no experience doing this type of work but enjoyed the newness of it all and being able to hang out with me. Eventually I sold the company to a much larger company and she transferred into their sales department. Ultimately she was manipulated (no sales folks never do that…LOL)by her boss into believing I was violent and amazingly enough started having an affair with him at about the time my contract (post purchase) was up. <P>As I recall there was a book published in the early 80's called "How to pickup chicks" and the concept of convincing someone that their boyfriend was potentially dangerous was a topic in the "How to steal away a girl chapter". Guess it works for wives too.<P><B><BR>2. Is your marriage in recovery today?<BR></B><BR> <BR>We say it, but in reality the best I could say is maybe.<P><B><BR>3. If yes, Is your WS still working with the OP?<BR></B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Yes.<P><BR><B><BR>4. Do you feel in order to get a marriage back in track, the WS must change jobs? <BR></B>[/QUOTE]<BR>Must is a big word. I think some might be able to recover without this step, but as a gesture of good faith and remorse I feel that most folks should seriously consider this option. A possible lessor option might be for the WS to speak with the HR department and explain the circumstances and see what they might suggest. Probably not allot but, it’s all out in the open and occasionally dose humility is good for the soul. Also in case this was not the OMs first time at trying to "dip his pen in the company ink well" so to speak.<P><BR><B><BR>5. Would you like to share some thoughts or your story to help those of us facing this tough situation?</B><BR>Hope for the best, while looking for the worst. If your spouse is in a position of power, then you need to know that they could be named in a sexual harassment suit. Even if the other party to the affair claims the affair top be consensual. (even Harley agrees) If your spouse is named in a suit and you then file for divorce then you run the risk of having a judgement against your spouse before the assets have been divided in a divorce settlement. This is even truer if it is known that you knew of the affair prior to the sexual harassment case and did nothing substantial to alleviate your own personal liability in the situation. Plan A would likely look like doing nothing to most non-Mb outsiders. So you seriously need to look at what options you might have to protect your assets, and children. <P> BTW - I am not an lawyer, but I play one on TV (LOL). If you find yourself in this situation then get an opinion from a true professional and be wary of anyone who asks for a retainer or advises immediate action. Some lawyers can smell money and second opinions are relatively cheap in comparison to frivolous law suits.<P>Those of you that have wives in the work place need to know how much of an aphrodisiac office place power really is. I know, I've had it and lived it first hand. As a young guy that owned a company, I had a very young and attractive female employee approach me, while my wife was 2 offices down and her (the attractive female employees) boyfriend (also a good friend and employee) was across the hallway. On a few other occasions while traveling with several of my employees, I have been approach by single and married women(all non-employees) while having meetings in restaurants, hotel lobbies and bars. What I find completely interesting about the these scenarios is each time they happened was right after I was playing boss to folks in a social environment and the employees I was speaking to were listing intently on every word and taking notes on everything I was requesting. I have no proof except my own opinions, but I believe that some women who feel powerless sometimes gravitate towards men they perceive as powerful in an attempt to belong to something stronger. <P>For any of you who have spouses that travel overnight, then you will be testing your marriage on a regular and ongoing basis. The workplace itself is already dangerous. Everyone is at their best (dressed, behavior, and attitude) for at least 40hrs a week. Already looks better than the home front. Toss in the fact that you seldom see the people you work with sick, hurt or struggling to raise children and make ends meet. Now add a small dose of marital discontent and the unshaven husband in his boxers who's 20lbs over weight starts really looking horrific compared to the people you work with. It becomes much easier to forget that the very same husband is the one who is 20 over because of working OT and helping raise children and he's unshaven because it's Saturday morning. Now lets go on the road. Wow this is almost like a romantic getaway that you use to take with your spouse. No kids, no bills, someone always cleans up after you (and seems happy to do it), Nice hotel, great restaurants, drinks flow and it's all for what….yep that right it’s free…someone else is footing that tab. And then there are all these great people that seem so much more on the ball and together than your spouse. Poof the fantasy has just started and the seed planted!!!! Now let's throw in a few discussions between these great looking, on the ball folks about how their spouse just called and was lonely or was having trouble with the kids or trying to keep up with a full family schedule by themselves. Abracadabra hocus pocus and the seed was just watered and fertilized because now the parties involved have something new to talk about each time they travel besides that work thing. Yep…your right again if you guessed that the new non work topic is (party #1)"How are you and your spouse doing?". (party #2) "Well you know, same thing he/she has a lot of trouble while I'm gone and ….." (party #1) "Wow! That’s incredible….me too" (BTW- last line is rule # 3 from how to pick up chicks) Then Wammo!! The bond of commonality has started. Lots of after hour's calls, dinners, and yes more drinks with a good friend you work with. Then the fog sets as we toss in a shot of suspicious spouse for good measure and that same conversation turns to something like thisthe next time around (party #1)"How are you and your spouse doing?". (party #2) "Well you know, same thing he/she has a lot of trouble while I'm gone and he/she asked me if there's something going on between us" (party #1 pick one) 1) You know I've felt that too or 2) Your kidding as he/she thinks the rest of the night over drinks and then decides to timidly touch or kiss party #2 as the evening closes. <P>Before becoming married, I traveled extensively for business. My observation would be that 2-3 out of 10 of all married people who travel often today for a living are regular to semi-sporadic adulterers. The recent technology boom has reduced this number somewhat down from 4-5 in old days where executives and sales/marketing types did 70% -80% of business travel. I attribute that the fact that roughly 1/2 of the true technology gurus are somewhat socially inept and might have trouble getting laid in a whore house with a pocket full of cash. No jab intended, I know, I was a techo whiz and managed several others.<P>So it's quite an understatement to say that traveling for a living is probably the most dangerous situations for a marriage I can think of.<P><BR>I'll close my long winded response with a paraphrased quote from Harley (SAA I think)were he said "I could have made my entire career specializing in counseling for pilots and stewardesses".<P><BR><p>[This message has been edited by Hi Infidelity (edited July 20, 2001).]

<BR>1. Does/Did your spouse involve in A with a co-worker?<P>Actually an X co workers wife with whom he could contact frequently through work ventures<P><BR>2. Is your marriage in recovery today?<P> No we are at a standstill with no progress or regress<P>3. If yes, Is your WS still working with the OP?<P>NO after i found out he continued to have contact with OW without my knowledge until he left his job by his choice a month later<P>4. Do you feel in order to get a marriage back in track, the WS must change jobs? <BR>Most definately I wouldnt want to be wondering if he was lying or not about seeing her... being as he became such a good liar during his EA why would he not lie now to cover it up?<P>

Ok, my turn, I guess...<P>1. Does/Did your spouse involve in A with a co-worker?<P>yes it did.<P>2. Is your marriage in recovery today? <P>Absolutely! <P>3. If yes, Is your WS still working with the OP?<P>Not now, but was for almost a year after we began recovery.<P>4. Do you feel in order to get a marriage back in track, the WS must change jobs? <P>I believe it's easier, but not necessary. Actually, with Robert and PT, her constant trying to get him back after he moved out of her home (yes, they lived together for months) worked on him hard for a couple of months or so. After that, it started getting on HIS nerves and eventually he had her transferred just to not have to deal with her. I was so past it be then, it was weeks and he had forgotton to tell me and i had forgotten to ask!<P>5. Would you like to share some thoughts or your story to help those of us facing this tough situation?<P>It's a strange, strange situation. I have to admit, the hardest thing I ever did was kiss my hubby goodbye each morning knowing that he was going to her, looking and acting her best (ahhhh, and she's 1/2 my age to boot!). but, once I started realizing that she wasn't my problem, my marriage was my problem and if it wasn't her, it would be someone else, she didn't bother me so much anymore. I can't remember the last time I asked if he saw or talked with her (they could still run into each other every now and then) and I don't worry if they do. It died a natural death. She wasn't the problem....our marriage was. We had left room for someone else to fill a space there - we're trying our very best to make sure that doesn't happen again. I guess I sorta got "de-sensitized" to his seeing her - the same for him, really. not a big deal any more. Wouldn't want them to go OUT, but I can handle a "hi, how are you and how's the wee one?" kinda conversation. (and that's a big thing - He wanted to adopt the little one and it was fondness for her that kept him there so long.)<P>He's been home about 18 months.<P>Lori

1. Yes, my wife is having both an EA and PA with her boss, who is also a woman. They have known each other for ten years, became best friends, and at some point a few years ago decided to take it a step further. But even though this by definition is a homosexual relationship, my wife has adamantly told me, Steve Harley and other counselors that she is not.<P>2. No, we are not in recovery. I believe some progress has been made because I revealed the affair to close family (including my daughters). If my wife was seriously committed to this new relationship, she would have come out of the closet at that time. During the last month or so I have seen some softening. I believe this is to my Plan A and also the pressure from our kids. Hopefully soon...<P>3. Yes, she is still working with OW. This is going to be a major sticking point and I am going to have to be careful in handling it. She has a very good job and fantastic benefits. On the other hand, I cannot be sure how much of this is due to the relationship with her boss. My wife is very good and dedicated at what she does. I have no doubt that she deserves her position. OW is lifetime worker (26 years) with company. You wanna guess how may times I have fantasized about going to HER boss about this? In reality, I could do this as a last resort.<P>4. Like I said, it would be a major sticking point to make her quit. The only way this could happen would be if my wife eventually sees it as the only way for our marriage to recover. It has to be her choice, not mine. Like the others, I can't see full recovery unless OP is completely out of the picture.<P>On the lighter side, my wife was very actively seeking another job when she first informed me of the affair. Their whole idea was for her to leave the company, TAKE my kids away from me, and buy a nice big house together. That way they wouldn't have any trouble worrying about being found out at work. Right idea for the wrong reasons. Here we are ten months later and they are still trying to desparately hide it.<P>5. I see success in sticking to a good Plan A for as long as possible. Meet as many needs as you possibly can and don't give the WS any added reasons to stay away. Like Steve Harley told me, eventually my wife will see the ruins all around her that she has caused. I need to be the one standing there with open arms when that happens. <p>[This message has been edited by Always Hopeful (edited July 20, 2001).]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Hi Infidelity:<BR><B><BR>Those of you that have wives in the works place need to know how much of an aphrodisiac office place power really is.<P>...I have no proof except my own opinions, but I believe that some women who feel powerless sometimes gravitate towards men they perceive as powerful in an attempt to belong to something stronger. <BR></B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>I think this was very well said and quite true. Women often seem to just really admire strength in a man in general, and those powerful in the job setting at least appear to be very strong.<P><B> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><BR>I'll close my long winded response with a quote from Harley were he said "I could have made my entire career specializing in counseling for pilots and stewardesses".<BR></B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Long perhaps, but not long winded at all IMO. That's a great Harley quote, and I thought the post as a whole was interesting and thoughtful.<P>Steve<BR>

Just an afterthought to question #4:<P>Why does the WS have to change jobs? What's wrong with the OP doing that instead?

1. Does/Did your spouse involve in A with a co-worker? yes his secretary<P>2. Is your marriage in recovery today? Hopefully well on it's way to recovery<P>3. If yes, Is your WS still working with the OP? Yes (UGH)<P>4. Do you feel in order to get a marriage back in track, the WS must change jobs? My H is the manager of a business and changing jobs at this point isn't an option. Although he has been talking about relocating to California if the opportunity presents it's self.<P>5. Would you like to share some thoughts or your story to help those of us facing this tough situation? I'm dealing with her by pretending she doesn't exist. When I have to speak to her on the phone I am polite and nothing more. (good thing we don't have video phones lol) I never mention her to H and I am plan A'ing hard. It seems to be working.<P>And I am with the opinion of Always Hopeful that the OP should change jobs...life would be so much easier lol<BR>

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Always Hopeful:<BR><B>Just an afterthought to question #4:<P>Why does the WS have to change jobs? What's wrong with the OP doing that instead? </B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Or...better yet, being fired. <evil laugh><P>But the thing is, I waited, and waited, and waited, and he (OM) never left. He was offered a job elsewhere on campus, but didn't take it (too far from me? He said so). His sig. other (he had a commmon-law wife he wouldn't marry, should that have been a hint to me?) was contacting me in nasty emails, and I should have told her what he was up to: things like, spelling out F@CK ME with the keys off a keyboard I was working on... tsk, tsk... what a pig.<P>

1. Does/Did your spouse involve in A with a co-worker?<BR> Yes, H got involved with co-worker.<P>2. Is your marriage in recovery today? <BR> No, H is living with OW<P>3. If yes, Is your WS still working with the OP?<BR> Neither one is still working at same company.<P>4. Do you feel in order to get a marriage back in track, the WS must change jobs? <BR> I felt this strongly but at time H and I were "trying" <BR> he refused to quit his job.<P>5. Would you like to share some thoughts or your story to help those of us facing this tough situation?<BR> Only related to the work situation....H got involved with co-worker. Waffled back and forth quite a bit...refused to quit job or even switch shifts. I talked to company CEO who looked into possibly letting OW go since my H isn't the first she'd been with. Couldn't do it...offered my H different shift. H wouldn't switch but on another time he came back, he wanted to quit so bad because after he broke it off with OW, supposedly everyone he worked with turned their backs on him. They told OW lies about H, how he was only using her and such. Apparently, some of the guys there weren't too happy because my H and OW were involved. She'd been with many of them and egos were bruised. He did quit 2 weeks later, I wasn't working at the time (f/t mommy), and all we had was his last paycheck for income. Of course, he went back to OW before quitting. By this time, she also had quit. Supposedly, so that I wouldn't worry about H working with her and so that she wouldn't have to see him. It was a time he had come back yet again. Who really knows the truth anymore?<BR>