Please, if you could give me your take on my situation I would truly appreciate it. D-day was 11/19/00. H has since gone back and forth between myself and OW. I moved out of state end of Jan but came back end of March. Did not come back to him but he came back to me and kids shortly after our return. Other than the out of state separation, we'd been together and apart for only 2 weeks at a time. H recently left again about 5 weeks ago. He has moved in with OW and doesn't try to contact me...barely keeps in touch with our kids. The day he left he told me that he was in love with her and wanted to be with her. He said that he still loved me but didn't have those "in love" feelings for me anymore. Later he told his grandmother that he was still in love with me, always would love me, and would never love anyone the way he does me. He told her that he left because he felt that he could never fix what he did wrong and that he didn't think he would end up with OW. H has contradicted himself so many times since this all began. He has said one thing one day and completely the opposite another. I can't help but to believe that he knows exactly what he's doing and what/who he wants. He has told me that OW has lied to him and me (I've talked to her on several occasions), but has also told me that he has so much more in common with her than he does me. He says that he doesn't spend a lot of time with her but lives in her home. He says that he doesn't interact with her 2 daughters but I find it hard to believe that he could be so cold to innocent children that are around him day in and day out or that she would be ok with the man she supposedly loves ignoring her children. He has said that he loves our kids so much that at times, they are the only thing that keep him going but yet he only saw them twice in the first 3 1/2 weeks since he's been gone. Now things seem to be changing again. He was here to see our kids last Sunday. He spent quite a bit of that time with and around me. He actually opened up to me and told me that he didn't think it was going to last with OW because he didn't trust her. OW was living with someone else when she got involved with my H and now he says that he always wonders if she'll do to him what she did to so-and-so. Also he's told me that she gives him grief because he talks to me. She doesn't really have to know this but apparently he tells her that he does. He also tells her that it's mostly about our kids. This past Sunday he stayed almost an hour after the kids went to bed and she let him have it for that because she knows when bedtime for our kids is. He was here again today. He called from his grandparents house a few doors down from me. I told him I'd send the kids down. He says "Aren't you going to come down too?" I told him I would after a bit and I did. We talked for a little bit then he spent some time with the kids. I asked him point blank why he was still with her if he didn't trust her and didn't think it was going to last. He said he didn't know, that he couldn't answer that question. He doesn't deny that he still loves me and seems like every time he sees me, he has to touch me. No hugs, nothing so obvious...little things like moving hair away from my face, pointing out (touching) a bruise, running his finger down my nose....that type of thing. I think maybe, he's finally starting to come out of the fog that everyone here says WS's are in during an A. I've read the info on the MB site and I've been following a lot of the posts almost daily. For the first few weeks, I didn't want any contact with H, barely spoke to him when we did have to be around each other. Last couple of weeks though (the few times I've seen him) I've been doing my best to be the "concerned, caring, here-for-you but no pressure, judgements, or expectations" type of person I feel he needs right now. I want him to know that he gave up so much to be with so little. Still, I'm trying to figure out what I want. I don't miss him much and sometimes I don't even feel that I still love him. I don't think I want him back either but then I wonder if maybe I'm denying to myself how I really feel. I think maybe I've been on preservation mode. I'm questioning all this because being around him today was especially hard. I wanted to cry so bad, I wanted to hold him, I wanted to tell him that I want him back and that I'll wait for him. Why? If both WS and BS can reply....please try to help me understand at what point my H might be at in this whole mess and maybe if any of you experienced the confusion/feelings/thoughts I'm having right now, you can give me some insight. Thank you so much for taking the time to read this. <BR>

<BR>Hello and Welcome to Marriage Builders!<P>First, I would like to share two links with you. Just click on the underlined links here, and read –><A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi10_tour.html" TARGET=_blank>Tour of Marriage Builders</A> and <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/forum/Forum29/HTML/000553.html" TARGET=_blank>General Welcome</A>. <P>Please read everything you can on this site, post and read often!! <P>I have been betrayed and betrayer, so I have the dubious honor of knowing what infidelity does from BOTH SIDES of the situation. <P>I believe in the concepts espoused here, if applied properly. One idea that has worked *wonders* for some couples is Plan A. Read about it here –><A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi8113_ab.html" TARGET=_blank>What Are Plan A and Plan B</A>.<P>Use what you learn here to make your marriage a safe place where you do your best to meet the <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi3300_needs.html" TARGET=_blank>Emotional Needs</A> of your spouse,and avoid <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi3400_lovebust.html" TARGET=_blank>Love Busters</A> whenever possible. . When a decision must be made, use the <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi3500_policy.html" TARGET=_blank>POJA</A> to determine the final outcome that you can both agree upon.<P>Many couples find that counseling is VERY helpful, and the counseling provided here is excellent for several reasons; but the most important is that it goes along with the concepts here. Check it out here –> <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi7000_counsel.html" TARGET=_blank>Counsel Link</A><P>Again, welcome to our community, and feel free to write often and ask lots of questions!<P>------------------<BR>~Sheryl<P>And we know. We who have seen. ~Pellegrino

Dear Mad Season,<P>Here is a thread called the 5 stages of grieving. In addition to the threads from Nyneve, this is one that really helped me. <P> <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/forum/Forum34/HTML/002494.html" TARGET=_blank>http://www.marriagebuilders.com/forum/Forum34/HTML/002494.html</A> <P>You will learn that what you are feeling is not unusal. It will also help you see how you can progress. There may be times of going backwards a bit but it puts it in smaller steps and helps you see how you can get better. Recovery and healing is something that affects both the BW and WS. <P>Do you have a right to be angry, frustrated and hurt? Yes. Does your WS? yes. Why? Because of the reasons for the A both before, during and after. Are your feelings more important than his? For you yes, for him? should be. Right now however, his feelings are warped and he may be very confused. How do you deal with it? Read the info in Nyneve's post, there you will learn about plan a vs plan b, how not to LB (love bust) how to add to your love bank and so much more. Sounds silly? Yes. until you understand the basic concepts as outlined at this site. <P>You will hear about how much being at MB has helped many of us, this is true. Some marriages recover, others divorce, yet all who participate here recover if not for the marriage for themselves. <P>You have a lot of reading to do. Post your thought inbetween. This will help you. If you can also have a session or 2 with Jennifer or Steve (over the phone), you will find it benetical. One thing that does not escape most WS's is that they notice that when we apply the info here, most of the WS's comment how much better we the BS's have become. Pretty good huh? Let's help you get there. <P>Take Care,<BR>L.<BR>

Nyneve and Orchid,<BR>Thanks so much for your replies. I've checked out some of the links and will continue to keep going back to them. I've actually been reading the MB site for some time. Mostly though, I've only been reading the member posts. Right now I'm at the point where I guess I'm trying to figure out if I even want my H back. My understanding is that the desired outcome of doing Plans A and/or B is the return of the WS with the added benefit of bettering/taking care of ourselves. Am I correct in this understanding? If so, do I even want to Plan A while being confused about what outcome I want? I'm sorry....my thoughts go round and round. I hope this hasn't come out as confusing as I am confused.

Dear Mad Season,<P>Here try switching around the reason for plan A/plan B. <P>You said: "My understanding is that the desired outcome of doing Plans A and/or B is the return of the WS with the added benefit of bettering/taking care of ourselves. Am I correct in this understanding? If so, do I even want to Plan A while being confused about what outcome I want? I'm sorry....my thoughts go round and round. I hope this hasn't come out as confusing as I am confused."<P>Instead think of it this way: Plan A/B is implemented by the BS to <BR>1. try to help the WS back to the marriage. Plan A<BR>2. help the BS preserve the love that is dwindling for the<BR> WS. Plan B<P>There does this help clear the confusion a bit? It did for me. I was in the same situation not long ago. Try searching on some of the posts I started. I actually went from GQII to d/d back to GQII. Never went to recovery even though H came back 4/29/01. RE: H came home, then got OW possibly preg (never verified), also got me preg (then I miscarried). Oh the pain. Don't want to go there again. Never felt like recovery. Now H says he is back to stay but this is all relatively fresh for us. I am the one not sure now. H is helping me see that he truly means to be with his family. Says he now knows that the only time he can be truly happy is with us. No one else. REALLY??? Well, I don't want to be dropped again, so I am being cautious. <P>Read my posts, sometimes you laugh, cry and get mad. The full gammut of emotions. Whatever it is (I was mentally preparing myself for D), I knew I could make it. With or without H, this place, my belief in God and my family/friends, helped me believe in myself and keep the respect for me and my son. I give you this info in an effort that it may give you a new focus. Instead of the confusion of trying to help your WS back, maybe you need to keep bettering yourself first then when they are ready you will be in a better position to help them or show them how to help themselves. I told H, he can still have a relationship with God and his family (son and relatives) even if we were divorced. H did not want it that way. (CHICKEN!!!) Just kidding. H knew how important our marriage was. That crazy fog confused him for a while. H is not out of it yet, still has some issues but looks like he is getting better. <P>I have not updated my story yet, since it is still fragile, but those that have known me here since Jan 01, know this is an improvement from before. <P>Hope this info is helpful. <P>Take Care, <BR>L.<BR> <P>

MS--<P>Sorry for your pain and confusion, I do believe that there is a little bit of FOG for us BS's too (our confusion). Seems that we have to take our leads from our SP that are so fogged in.<P>There are not many here during the weekends, busy doing things at home with families and such. So be patient, there will be more around with support and advice. <P>I am not the best to give advice, my story is not unfolding the way that I wish that it would. I have some of the same thoughts as you about do I want my H back, I think for sure that I want the marriage back though, but I know nothing else, I went from my parents house to be with my H at 18 yo.<BR>I give lots of support though, just don't feel that I am the best at advice.<P> So tell me a little bit more about yourself, your daughters how old are they? How long have you been married?<P>I have worked on myself the past 6 months and feel good about myself and the things that are going on in my life outside of my marriage and that is good. My kids have noticed some of the changes that I have worked on.<P>Do keep posting, even on the weekends! There are a few that check in! You are doing a great job not LBing! I think of my H as a person with an illness, that needs my support and my understanding, it helps me to deal with some of stupid, idiotic things that he says and does, can't explain them, nor can he, but helps me not LB. Never yell at or punish a sick child.<P>Take care, Dawn

Orchid,<BR>Thank you for giving me a different way of looking at Plan A/B. I see that I wasn't quite understanding them. Now I guess I need to do some major reading so that I can figure out which plan it is that I need to be implementing. I will definitely look for your posts. It's funny how just a week or two ago I thought I knew exactly what I wanted and how I felt....now I'm almost clueless. I don't like feeling like this, it's not something I've really experienced before with regards to this whole mess. It's either been yes, I want H back and will do what I need to to have that happen or no, I'm done with it all and moving on. It's hard enough that with this A, my whole life has become an uncertainty. To not be sure about how I'm feeling really makes me want to crawl under the blankets and not come out.<BR>Not an option, right? Yeah, I know.<P>I also wanted to say that I truly hope your relationship with H keeps getting better, that your marriage only gets stronger. It amazes me how so many of you are able to hold on with so much certainty to the love you feel for your WS! God Bless~<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Orchid:<BR><B>Dear Mad Season,<P>Here try switching around the reason for plan A/plan B. <P><BR>Instead think of it this way: Plan A/B is implemented by the BS to <BR>1. try to help the WS back to the marriage. Plan A<BR>2. help the BS preserve the love that is dwindling for the<BR> WS. Plan B<P>There does this help clear the confusion a bit? </B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P><p>[This message has been edited by Mad Season (edited July 21, 2001).]

Dawn,<P>Thanks for the support and for sharing some of your story with me. A little background on myself and my family....H and I have been married for 4 1/2 yrs, together for 6 1/2. We have a S (5yrs) and a D (soon to be 4). I was a full time mom until this whole mess. Went back to work in May. This has been very difficult, to say the least but it absolutely kills me what my babies are going thru. Their little lives have been completely turned around and I guess that this is the main reason I'm not sure about wanting my marriage back. H hasn't come around much and I get so angry at the way he so easily walked away from his children. I ask myself, how can I love a man that puts another woman (and possibly her children) before his own? I think sometimes that maybe I'm beyond even Plan B, that there isn't any love towards H to preserve. Still trying to figure myself out. Thanks again. I wish you the best in your situation....God Bless~