I am actually new here in the sense that i never post( i posted awhile back once or twice) but not new to this site. I have been coming here from before my DDay (march 5, 2000) when at that time I was just trying to comprehend that this could possible be what was happening to me. Then I actually found about about my WS affair and how it had been going on for so long ( a year and a half) and I finally understood the pain that I read about here previous my discovery. I came here every day just reading and taking in so much valuable information . I cried many times reading the posts that were shared by others , crying because I could so well relate. MB has become a place that I come to, to find a group of people who truly understand what it feels like to have someone rip your heart out, people that share the same pain and disappointment that I feel. I feel that no one esle understands except the faceless people here at MB. Not my friends who by now are so tired of hearing the same story, especially not my spouse who feels like I should be over it by now. I have decided to post because I feel I'm going to go mad if I don't get everything I have inside out. I feel so sad but more than sad I am so angry at my H for doing this to me. This is my problem now because I just can't get over this I have too much anger dwelling inside of me and when I least expect it a different person emergen from within me , a person that can feel so much hate that it consumes my energy. Don't get me wrong I am supposedly trying to work on my marriage but at many times I don't feel like he deserves it. It's sad to say but at times I think I hate him more than i'll possibly ever love him again. I am so stuck on the lies, and the details that my heart can't begin to feel forgiveness or closure. My hate is extended into this OP who selfishly came into my life with no regard to me or my children . I think about her everyday and how I won't let this go until I see her hurt the way I have. I apologize for the length of this post. I'm so mad at myself for letting this happen for being such a fool that most likely I don't make sense to any of you. I am basically wondering if anyone else out there feels like I do. I'm at the point where I don't know if this is worth fighting for. I feel like no matter what my H does it will never compensate my pain and suffering. I'm gonna end this here but beforehand thank you all for listening to me. <P>Fay

Shattered----your name says it all. My A is the worst emotional pain I have ever felt and yes, I have felt and still do feel the same feelings that you do. GLAD YOU ARE POSTING. Keep at it and try to journal if you can. You have to get the feelings out and let them run through a process. These posts are a remarkable place of understanding, insight and wisdom and the experiences of others will guide you. Do you pray? I have 2 prayer partners who have been down this road and God truly worked in helping me through their prayer support. Reducing the anxiety is crucial. Excerising helps relieve stress. Walking is the best. I find myself walking for 2 hours at a time.<P>My worst feeling was that I felt like someone stole my life. One day (d-day was 4/21/01) I felt like I had no future, no husband, no life, nothing was left. But working through all the feelings, learning from books and this site that I am not defective and growing to learn what do I want out my marriage and from a H has helped me to move to another place emotionally.<P>You have been through way too much for way too long. Learn what you can do to take care of yourself and grow.<P>There is alot of people on this sight that can give you specifics. Have you read Surviving an Affair (Harley) and After the Affair (Spring)? Don't give up posting cause at first, til people get to know you, they respond slowly. <P>God Bless and keep on working at this. It can get better for you,<BR>TW

Hi there,<P> I think what you are experiencing is very very normal. Dday for us was Dec. 98 and I STILL have thoughts like you do.Has your H taken responsibility for the affair? Or has he shoved it under the rug? <P>I've seen Phil McGraw on Oprah and there were BS's on there who after years were still angry. He said it is a myth to believe that "time heals all wounds"....he claims "it's WHAT happens during that time that determines the outcome". <P>Have you been to counseling? HOw about talking to STeve Harley? Are you spending alot of time together , are you getting your needs met? I get the impression that your H , lIke mine, just wants to forget about it all . Btw, things are much , much better with us but I still have those days. LU

I understand Shattered. I understand exactly how you feel. And I also felt the same way for a LONG long time. It has been 3 1/2 yrs since Dday and I spent much of that time involuntarily reliving the discovery of the affair, the pain, hurt and anger.<P>Is your H participating in the recovery of your marriage? Have you both or either been to counseling? Read the books, had the painful but oh-so-necessary discussions?<P>I HAD to let go of the pain, anger and hurt for ME. Oh,,I didn't give it up completely. It's still lurking there in the background, but I don't LIVE it everyday. I couldn't. It was eating me up alive. It was a conscious decision to put it away and MAKE myself concentrate on other things. <P>My H and I have talked this thing into the ground. He has answered every possible question I have asked. He has done all the right things to make rebuilding possible. He has tried. Now I have to try too. We are doing great. Better than I would have ever thought possible. I can't change what happened. God knows, I wish with all my heart it hadn't happened but it did. And there is absolutely NOTHING I can do about that. But I can change today and tomorrow. I can make today the best day possible IF I TRY. I have been doing just that and it works for me. <P>

Dear shattered,<BR>Not sure whether A is ongoing. If not, remember that we are all imperfect human beings ... make mistakes ... the betrayal of a spouse is the most heart wrenching and devestating that can be imagined. In the case where the S returns, and the BS still feels the pain, it is important for both to go to counciling. It is the WS responsibility to compensate. Insist, for the sake of your and your family's well being that he and you get help.<P>God bless ... take charge. Jan

Thank you all for your fast replies and insightful advice. I will pay close attention to all that was said. I have been reading long enough to understand that my actions are a road leading nowhere and that it's only purpose it to take me down the path of misery. My query is how does one take themselves out of such torment. I so desperately want to let go of this but I can't. In many ways I don't want to let go because I need to remind myself of how naive and trusting I was. It's my way of protecting myself from any more pain. <P><BR>tossedwave : "You have to get the feelings out and let them run through a process." I think this is part of my problem. It's been over a year and a half since dday and I think just now am i realizing all the pain and anger that I buried back then. When I first found out I was in so much shock that I just basically shut down because I couldn't deal with so much. I downplayed so much of the affair because I wasn't strong enough to search for all the answers. Answers that I now need but most likely won't get. My H doesn't like to talk about what happened so I am left to do the dirty work alone. <BR>You asked "Do you pray?" No I don't. I don't know why but for the longest time now I have felt very disconnected from God. Sometime I will try to pray or talk to God but it's more from my mouth than from my heart.<P>As far as any book reading, I have read Torn Asunder & After the Affair (Janis Abrahams Spring) but I have yet to read any of the MB books by Dr. Harley. I will try to get to them.<P><BR>Lu : "Has your H taken responsibility for the affair? Or has he shoved it under the rug?" <BR>Yes and no. He was caught so he can't deny but as far as understanding why it happened or what led him to do this the answer would have to be no. We tried counseling in the begining but it didn't work for a couple of reasons. 1. He thought it was a waste of time. He was very uncomfortable and harldly had much to say( the counselor practically had to pry the answers out of him) 2. I was not happy with the approach the counselor was taking. She basically didn't want to give the affair much importance . She believed I didn't have to know any more facts than what I already had. Basically she said that we were there to rebuild our marraige , I had chosen to stay w/ him therefore I was to get past the affair. I was very unhappy and disappointed because I wanted to understand the whole affair. I wanted the truth no matter how much it hurt but I needed the safe enviorment of that office to ask those painful questions but I wasn't given that chance. My problem is that my husband barely speaks english at least it's not his primary language( he speaks spanish)and it was very hard to find a counselor that spoke both languages( english is my primary language ) so I gave up the whole counselor idea altogether.<P>"Are you spending alot of time together , are you getting your needs met? I get the impression that your H , lIke mine, just wants to forget about it all ." No we are not spending enough time together at least not alone. That I believe is one of the reasons that caused the affair. We got involved so young (17 & 18) and were quickly forced to be responsible that we completely put our relationship in the backburner. We never went out on dates because we didn't have anyone to leave our children with and we were barely making ends meet. It was always about not having the money and not trusting anyone that was not family with our kids. What hurts me is that when we finally (financially wise) had a break he went out and found someone else to enjoy it with. I was alwasys doing without things just to help him save. <P>Nerlycrazy you said "It has been 3 1/2 yrs since Dday and I spent much of that time involuntarily reliving the discovery of the affair, the pain, hurt and anger." <BR>It is inoluntarily , I try so hard to control my thoughts but there is not a day that this is not on my mind. I wake up and go to sleep with this in my mind. It is my first and last thought of the day. I have tried numerous times to not dwell on the past. Sometimes I'll be real good and not let the memories consume me but most of the time It just wins me over. I am basically dealing with this on my own because whenever I try to talk about it he gets defensive and basically gets out of my way until I get past my rut. I will say that he has made many changes and has tried to answer some things but those real difficult questions he avoids. I agree with you that I must forgive in order free myself from this pain but I think that without the proper closure I can't begin to do that yet. It will seem crazy to you but I find myself going to the places they went , I go by the house where she use to live just trying to believe that he did go there , that he slept with her there that ultimately this is true . You see I know that this happened my brain does understand and accepts the facts but my heart still can't believe that it's real . So I go in the hopes of finding answers but all I come back with is pain. I know where this woman lives now and something lures me to her . It's like I need to see her I need to know what he saw in her what he got from her. But all I is continue to hurt more and more as imagine the whole thing. <P>Whatami : no my husband is not currently in the affair. It actually ended 8 months before I found out. I found out because she wouldn't let go. I am definitely going to look into counseling again even if he doesn't want to go I do need help dealing with this because the resentment is eating me alive. <P>Please excuse the long post but I wanted to address everyone. Thank you and God Bless you all.<P>

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by shatteredheart:<BR><B>My query is how does one take themselves out of such torment. I so desperately want to let go of this but I can't. In many ways I don't want to let go because I need to remind myself of how naive and trusting I was. It's my way of protecting myself from any more pain. </B><P><I>is it really protecting you from more pain? Or are you reliving the same pain over and over and over...until you let it go, it will not heal...until you can think about it without pain...it will never be gone...start to let it go...FOR YOU. </I><P><B>You asked "Do you pray?" No I don't. I don't know why but for the longest time now I have felt very disconnected from God. Sometime I will try to pray or talk to God but it's more from my mouth than from my heart.</B><P><I> What has helped me most through this (besides MB) is discovering my relationship with God...He is allowing me to see His miracles EVERDAY I ALLOW Him to...that is the key...I must allow HIM into my life...</I><P><BR><B>It is involuntarily , I try so hard to control my thoughts but there is not a day that this is not on my mind. I wake up and go to sleep with this in my mind. It is my first and last thought of the day. I have tried numerous times to not dwell on the past. Sometimes I'll be real good and not let the memories consume me but most of the time It just wins me over. I am basically dealing with this on my own because whenever I try to talk about it he gets defensive and basically gets out of my way until I get past my rut. </B><P><I>Small steps...break this agreement with yourself day by day, second by second...YOU control YOU. YOU control your thoughts...</I><P><B>I will say that he has made many changes and has tried to answer some things but those real difficult questions he avoids. I agree with you that I must forgive in order free myself from this pain but I think that without the proper closure I can't begin to do that yet. </B><P><I> YES! You must forgive...him, yourself...everything and everybody...wipe the slate clean...</I><P><B>It will seem crazy to you but I find myself going to the places they went , I go by the house where she use to live just trying to believe that he did go there , that he slept with her there that ultimately this is true . You see I know that this happened my brain does understand and accepts the facts but my heart still can't believe that it's real . So I go in the hopes of finding answers but all I come back with is pain. I know where this woman lives now and something lures me to her . It's like I need to see her I need to know what he saw in her what he got from her. But all I is continue to hurt more and more as imagine the whole thing. </B><P><I> Again...you are allowing yourself to relive the pain...scraping the wound raw...let it heal...</I><P>I have several book recommendations along with the Harleys' books. #1. <I>Secrets of the Vine </I>by Bruce Wilkinson<BR>#2. <I>Power of a Praying Wife</I> #3 <I> The Way of Agape[i/] by Chuck and Nancy Missler and #4, my latest find [i] The Four Agreements </I> by don Miguel Ruiz.<P>All have their good points, but when taken together they are powerful for your ability to move forward...you can do this shatteredheart...you can be whole...<P>Cali<P><BR>[/B]<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>

Shattered,<BR> "It is inoluntarily , I try so hard to control my thoughts but there is not a day that this is not on my mind. I wake up and go to sleep with this in my mind. It is my first and last thought of the day. I have tried numerous times to not dwell on the past. Sometimes I'll be real good and not let the memories consume me but most of the time It just wins me over."<P>This is exactly what I am talking about. This isn't unusual. And you will get better and better at it until it doesn't win you over. I'm not in any way saying you are CHOOSING to be in pain. I am saying you will get better at not allowing it to consume you.. <P>"I agree with you that I must forgive in order free myself from this pain but I think that without the proper closure I can't begin to do that yet."<P>I didn't say I have "forgiven" him. I wish I had. I know I also must eventually do that but so far, I haven't found it in my heart to do so. His affair was long term,,that means years and years of lies and deceit. After 30yrs of being married and thinking we had the same dreams and goals, it's hard to forgive him for his detour. He has never asked for forgiveness,,only a chance to make it right again. Maybe someday. <P> "It will seem crazy to you but I find myself going to the places they went , I go by the house where she use to live just trying to believe that he did go there , that he slept with her there"<P>Well, we are both totally off our rockers if this is crazy. I have done the same thing so many times, I can't count the number. My favorite grocery store is right across the street from the bar where he met her and continued to see her for many months after. When I go to that store (Not often, I try to avoid it) I can't help but look over there. I almost wish I could will myself to a time past, enter that bar that fateful night and stop this from happening. Again, you are not alone. <P>I think the thing that may have really helped me was really sitting down with my H and asking for answers. Sure, your H doesn't want it brought up again but you need and deserve answers. Yes, it has been 2 yrs but there are still aspects of the past bothering you, they need to be addressed. Decide what answers you need,,decide exactly what you need to know, and let him know you need to have a talk.

You are not crazy. You are just dealing with one of the most emotional, painful things a person can ever go through. <P>It has been 1 year this week since DDay of affair number one and 2 years since DDay of affair number 2. After the discovery of the second affair I gave up. I had enough. His first affair was a internet affair to begin with. H traveled over 17hundred miles to see this woman and moved her and 3 of her 8 kids here. It turned out to be something from a Jerry springer show. But when he wanted to come back home I let him. I went through hell with him that year. He went through major withdrawel, we had some legal issues concerning her ect. Even though I stood behind him it wasn't enough and as soon as he had gotten over that affair he found someone new. I hate him now. At first I was still very nice about him, continued to make excuses for him but no more. I spend alot of my dayn thinking about what he did to me and the kids lives. He has pretty much blown us off like the 3 kids and the 17 years together meant nothing. <P>In alot of ways I'm much happier but the anger is something I need to deal with. I keep hoping it will get easier and that the hurt and the anger will become less and less but the more time that passes the angrier I get. <P>sorry for the rant, I just want you to know that how you are feeling is so normal. After being on this bored I have learned that some people can forgive and forget others just can't. You need to do what is the best for you. <P>Jill

These are all very good posts. I think I will re-read them. I have a lot of these feelings as well, and reading other points of view seems to help. I do have a quick suggestion though... When God Doesn't Make Sense by James Dobson, might be a book you will be interested in. (You mentioned you felt separated from God.) It helped me get out of my stage of "How can God let this happen to me? - to good people and good marriages?" <P>I also agree with that I had to actually forgive (and keep forgiving) my H and the OW, in order to release the anger and bitterness in my heart. It was crippling me. And still does over and over, and I have to keep forgiving... My favorite definiton of forgiving someone is to give up the right to hurt them for hurting you. That really helps me. It releases the other person from being responsible for your happiness. They can never make you completely happy - that's too much pressure on a human being.<P>Good luck, read and post often, and hang in there.<P>------------------<BR>Faith1<P>"Then Jesus answered, 'Woman, you have great faith! Your request is granted.'"<BR>Matt 15:28