For those of you in Plan B and even those that are not, do you believe Plan B is a forever deal?<P>If the WS never agrees to recovery via the Plan B letter, do we go on, even after possible D, without ever allowing contact with us again?<P>I'm pretty sure I know the answer, and I would guess it depends on the situation for each individual. But I'd like to hear from those that are in Plan B and those of you who have implemented and sustained Plan B for a long duration. What was your outcome and did you ever again allow contact?<P>Jo<P>------------------<BR>"Remain flexible like a reed, as opposed to an oak which can snap in the wind"<p>[This message has been edited by Resilient (edited July 22, 2001).]

Jo, I've been thinking about this a lot because I don't expect a turn-around by my wife.<P>I hold honesty as a prerequisite for all relationships - from "just friends" to "all of the above."<P>If my wife can't come clean with her behavior, her disrespect, and her deceptions of me, I can't imagine being "just friends" with her. Sorry. To me, my forgiveness requires humbleness.<P>I do not enter into this philosophy mildly - I need to weigh the best interests of my son. But, it will be very difficult to temper my principles.<P>WAT<P>WAT

Well, I have the lousiest record of plan B ever. But I'll answer anyway. <P>For me, it depends on how you define plan B. And how the WS defines it as well. I know how the Harley's define it...but it may not always play out that way, despite your efforts. I still contend that for some of the WS's it has more to do with all of their monsters coming out of the closet....and their projections onto us than just the affair. Though, both may have to do with "needs".... <P>I've had a difficult time with the "no contact" with my H, because he and ow do not live together currently, though they have a son... My H continues to sort of deny the extent of the "need" of the relationship, by maintaining that he justs wants to work with her. My H maintains a relationship with our kids (and actually continues to get closer to them)... and views any lack of contact regarding them a LB.<P>If I felt my H were "in his right mind"... I (at least think I) would be more strict in my plan B efforts. <P>I seem to have made the decision within me to carry his burdon, while I attempt to not carry his load.<P>Meaning that I have set my own boundaries...and believe me he tries to violate them daily... (I have to sidestep almost every day)... but keep the "gate" open in my relationship with him as parent. <P>I do not think he really gets it...that I am moving on... but that is ok. <P>I think, but do not know, that as long as they are not willing to discuss the possibility of reconciliation, that plan B continues.

I am in a similar mindset to Dave (WAT), in that I don't expect there to be a turnaround and successful reconciliation.<P>I have never got too hung up on wondering on the long term of Plan B, but I figure that we'll never be "friends". One possible outcome is that after much time, and assuming a D, and an eventual happy relationship (for me) and/or lots of time to just move on, no-contact rules can be relaxed a bit to assist in coordination of childcare issues, but that is about it. I'd not see anything else.<P>I asked a similar question in one of my older posts, and the opinions seemed to focus around it being a personal choice, but that after you have no love left for your WS (I don't feel much right now!), and have moved on, that through time you can be civil and communicate as necessary, if you so choose.

Thanks WAT, TT and Rick,<P>My mind set is such that I believe I will never talk to or see my H again. I, like WAT, feel there needs to be honesty and respect in all relationships I enter into. And it's painfully obvious my H falls short in both aspects.<P>At one point in Plan B, I had hoped I could maintain a friendship with my H later on, even if we D. Sheba and I talked this over and I thought I wanted to be there for him .. but I have already given him 21 years of my life and the effort of a simple friendship would be too great and most likely unrewarding.<P>The reason I'm bringing this Plan B question up now is my instincts are telling me my H will be wanting contact soon, and not simply to say "hi". I can't explain the feeling but because of it I've been practicing how to handle the situation when and if it occurs. I want to be prepared and not say anything I can't follow thru with.<P>Jo

Hey Jo,<P>My interpretation of Plan B is for us to improve ourselves and NOT lose the love we still have for our spouses. Showing them what life will or would be without us is only a side effect. Do I still love my X after the D in January?, of course I do, I M'd her. Am I in love with her now, ehhhhh...<P>I plan on continuing to improve myself for my next W as well as for myself. She [next W] will be the happiest woman on the planet. <P>So, yes, Plan B in the sense of improving us is forever.<P>And BTW Valerie still calls me every two weeks or so for silly stuff. No really, silly, goofy, dumb things. Guess she still needs her Zippy fix. Brian apparently isn't filling all her needs.<P>Wishing us all the Best<P>Medic

As I am attempting to further understand Plan B, this is implemented when Plan A has "hit the wall" and there is not another option besides the big D word? Plan B is about reserving one's (the BS) dignity and trying to reconcile the marriage at another workable level if Plan A fails. Please correct me if I'm "way out there." Plan B allows the BS to keep whatever love that is left for the WS intact. So.....if Plan B goes to Plan D where does the remaining love go? Does it diminish? Does it get divided at the legal table? <P>If I were to divorce my H tomorrow I would still love him as I did when the feeling first hit my heart....28 years and 3 months ago. My feelings have matured with more understanding but they are there regardless of the situations that have crossed my life. I guess that when I truly love someone, it's for life. I'm confused. Where does the love go? <P>------------------<BR><B>Time heals all wounds as long as you DON'T pick at them!</B>

In a nutshell, Plan B is meant to draw a "loving" line in the sand as it is meant to be a written as a love letter. It also is an ultimatum that outlines what is considered acceptable behavior before you the BS will be willing to consider reconciliation. Plan A on the other hand is meant to show the WS that you the BS have changed, are willing to accept them back and p!ss you off over time. TO the point where you are strong and single minded when you do implement Plan B.<P><BR>How long for plan B. Easy. Until they agree to it’s terms, or a POJA meaning of its terms or you decide to go file. Plan B is a big step towards divorce. It looks real close and smells like it to. But what you're really betting on is that your WS will get to live life without your influence or emotional support and find out that you might not truly be the sole reason for their unhappiness. <BR>

I can't speak for anyone else regarding Plan B migration to D, but for me I still love my H (Plan A -> B left me with deposits). I probably will love him until the day I die.<P>But regarding being his "Buddy" or "Friend", I don't know if that would be possible. I could try, but there was so much ugliness generated from OW, whom he is still with, that our relationship would be very taxed.<P>I realize that loving someone doesn't necesssarily mean it will be reciprocated, and I don't expect anything in return. It's simply the situation as it stands is not healthy for me. I fear I'd be relatiated upon by OW.<P>Perhaps this is a stage I'm in for the moment, and as I become stronger with time being his "friend" may be a possibility.<P>Jo<p>[This message has been edited by Resilient (edited July 22, 2001).]

HI....your explanation seems very logical. I realize that there is no rigid structure to either plan because enforcement of the guidelines shall depend upon the particular situation at hand. For instance, although my scenario is most unusual, my WH and I are in Plan A although circumstances beyond our control at this time create an atmosphere of Plan B. It's asinine to assume that there is an outline to follow for each and every troublesome relationship yet the MB concepts are the most reasonable and workable that I've had the "misfortune" to utilize. <P>Thanks for your help......it's always appreciated.<P>------------------<BR><B>Time heals all wounds as long as you DON'T pick at them!</B>