Well, another weekend has passed and I still don't know where we stand. Saturday Night we spent a nice evening watching TV , Talking about everything else except where we are going and if she is committing to our marriage. At the end of the evening , I told My WS that if she felt comfortable , she should come back to bed, and not sleep on the couch. She replied, that she was ok on the couch, I dropped it and went to bed. Plan A , I feel, has hit an impasse. She seems comfortable enough being there, but I am starting to think she will never come back fully to me. She is most definitely a conflict avoider, and I have allowed this comfort period to go on, without discussing where we are going, since April 1st. Any thoughts on what's going on ? Is it time to ask her ? I am getting this strange feeling that I am the only one working on this, and She is just buying time. I may be paranoid , but I never suspected anything was so wrong that she would have an A in the first place. Help ! I need some ideas so I don't go crazy.

Mark,<P>Although I don't know your whole story, I know when I was in the same situation last winter/spring, and believe me, I was the only one working on the marriage and I knew it (he was still in contact with OW, which I was unaware of), I talked with Dr. Harley and he told me to give him a time limit, mine was three days, and at the end of the time, the WS had to have a decision of some sort. If no decision was made (which my H. was famous for), Dr. Harley told me to go to Plan B immediately. Dr. Harley said to give my H. the time limit option in a Plan B letter format. I never got the chance to give it to him because he did commit to working on our marriage before he received the letter, so I don't know what the out come would have been.<P>Plan B should be implemented on the heels of a very good Plan A, so if you have been doing a good job with Plan A, it may be time for you! It is also time for Plan B when you feel you can no longer effectively do Plan A.<P>Have you considered counseling with Dr. Harley? Even just one session helped me tremendously! He helps you to put together an effective game plan in just one session. <P>Good luck!

Thanks for the advise, My W has an intense dislike for counseling of any kind, ( bad memories from her youth and she just doesn't trust them). I do not think there is any contact anymore. She doesn't have time for physical contact ( she's working a lot of hours). There may be telephone contact, that I am not sure of. I just feel she has convinced herself she is trying, but that old black magic is not returning, and I think she feels it should just happen. Before I move to Plan B, should I just bring up the subject and flat out ask her what she's feeling, and how do I make sure it's not going to be a LB ? I just need to know where I stand.

Mark,<P>has she told you she wants to work on the marriage ? and do you know why she's upset with you ? <P>I'm not sure you can develop a strong Plan A if you don't go through the pain of knowing what it is that your wife doesn't like about you and then accepting these for what they are. I managed to get through this phase quite quickly - I mean she just put it out there and I didn't get defensive about them either - I've focused on those major LBers for her. <P>Unfortuneately, your needs get completely ignored during Plan A, which is damned hard to accept.<P>

She has told me she is unsure of what she wants.This is what I got the last time we spoke, and she is afraid she can't be honest with me . She is questioning why this happened and is afraid that it will happen again since she doesn't understand why it happened in the first place. She is feeling all sorts of guilt over what happened and she has told me that I did nothing wrong, That , she just thinks she turned off to me when I got sick ( I have a chronic Illness , but I'm doing fine) and never turned back on. She told me that she wondered if we should have gotten married in the first place and she questioned whether she ever had physical feeling for me. I don't believe this revisionist look at our marriage. I believe that is the fog talking. I do believe, and told her that I was probably to eager to resume physical contact after I recovered, and I think she has developed a sexual aversion to me. I was quite insecure when I recovered and took her not wanting to be intimate as a sign that she did not find me attractive . I apologized for that and told her I do not feel that way any more. I can accept any problems she has with me and will work on making them go away, but I don't know how to get someone to open up. When this all came to light, her first reaction was to run away. She left for a while and went to her parents house. I am wondering if she will run again, and if she does, do I have the strength to continue ?

Mark,<P>When I counseled with Dr. Harley, I did it alone, my H. refused to get counseling. Your W sounds exactly like my H., unsure of what she wants. How long has it been since D-Day? How long was she involved in the affair? Was it a PA or EA? She may still be in the fog, just from what you described, it sounds like it to me. My H. also doubted (and still does) if we can ever be happy again, if he was ever really happy in our marriage before. These WS's are known for rewriting history so they can think that things weren't really all that good in the marriage, I think it makes them feel less guilt somehow. The problem is when the WS actually believes that the way they've rewritten history is actually how things were, and I don't know how long it takes for them to come out of that. Don't take anything your wife has to say to you personally, just chalk it up to the fog and stick to Plan A.<P>You mentioned that she took off once to her parents house. Do they know about the A? Are you in good standing with them? Maybe they would be a good influence on her if you decide Plan B is the answer...<P>Whatever you do, I would first make an appt. with Dr. Harley, now is not the time to make an uneducated decision. It is $120.00, but I know you won't regret it, even if you only have one session!!

Wow, three separate situations, yet so similar to mine.<P>My wife is also unsure of whether or not she wants to let go of her EA (and once PA). She is unsure of her love for me and our future (and even our past, just like you guys said!)<P>It amazes me how easily she can rewrite our past, just because of her fog. She completely forgot all those nights where we stayed up all night talking until the sun rose. At least it seems that way. Now she is at her mother's, trying to make a decision on what to do. I am sitting here, asking myself the same question you ask yourself... "Are we finished?" Will she ever come back? Do we have what it takes to make it? I thought so at first, but now I am not so sure.<P>But one thing I am absolutely 100% sure of... I am willing to try. Whatever it takes. I am willing to try. And I guess that's the best that any of us can do.

A began in September, I found out in November, She left Thanksgiving Night ( just Stayed at her parents) It was both a EA and a PA. I have snooped up some things she has written, during her time away. She thought she was in love and OM seemed to be playing her. ( he's someone from High School Days she just happened to ran into) .She came back in March, Last time she admitted contact was him calling as just a friend ( same old BS I see on this site all the time). Her Dad doesn't know details, ( he would not be pleased) Her Mother figured it out and has helped me stay sane. They will not take her back if I go to Plan B, they want her to (their words "grow up". She's' 37). She is too ashamed to talk to her Mom, and just tells her don't ask me questions and I'll tell you no lies. Her best friend has also counseled me. She told my W she should return to me ( she thinks I am the best thing that ever happened to her. She just got married and MY W seems to have withdrawn from her too . Tells her she's so busy with work, she doesn't have time to think about it. The Harley suggestion is a good one, but should I first ask her if she wants to try it with me, before I go it alone. I have been seeing a shrink, but I don't think she's been too helpful.<BR>

Well Mark,<P>My best guess would be to say that she is still in the fog...but you know, you see people post here and their WS fights for the marriage right on D-Day and does everything right according to the Harley plan, through fog and everything, and then you get the WS (like I think we both have) who is totally dumbfounded during the affair and after, and it seems that the fog totally compounds it all, and they fencesit as long as we let them, and they still haven't got a clue as to what they want. <P>I know my situation has played out way too long, and given our similiarities, I am hoping you can condense the length of yours.<P>I know Plan B is by far the hardest thing to do in the beginning, but everyone says they feel a huge relief once they've been in it. Even the week I was in it and my H. was gone, I was hugely relieved! And if your wife does go to her parents again, at least you know they are on your side and aren't pushing her to divorce you.<P>My personal opinion about the counseling session with Harley is to try a session alone with him first, he may have some suggestions on how to coax your W. to join you for your second session. The first session he basically wants you to give him a storyline along with basic information, and if you do that together, it may just drudge up alot of things she may not like to hear and she may be less than enthuased to try a second session (when the real issues are dug into and addressed). You may be able to give him a glimpse of what is happening with your wife and what her attitude and mood are like, so that he can better help if/when she counsels with you.<P>As far as the shrink for you goes, if you are not getting results, try another one. My H. has counseled a few times and I noticed no change in him whatsoever. This weekend I finally noticed somewhat of a change in his willingness to talk to me about our issues, and it was then that he confided that he switched counselors. I think a good counselor can make a difference in just one session. <P>

Mark, what you said got me thinking. My wife also has cut off contact with friends that are "fans" of our marriage. They always made comments on cute we look together, or what a great husband I was to her, or just how lucky we were to have each other. I guess she got tired of hearing it. Her mother loves me as well and she's starting to get an idea of what is going on. Her father is like your wife's father, doesn't know and it is better that he doesn't. But her mother has been calling me and checking on how I am doing. She wants us to stay together badly, but my wife avoids her as much as she can.<P>WS's will avoid anything that is likely to lift them out of the fog - counseling, prayer, talking with friends who will try to reason with them, anything that has a chance of making it truly over. And if we encourage them to do those things, they realize what we are doing very quickly, and go on the defensive. But since those things can be so effective, I guess we just need to be careful about how we bring them up, and try to convince them. It's a lot easier if the WS is truly dedicated to reconciliation, though.