Trueheart,<P>From your responses on my post(s), I understand you are a WS. Would it be alright for me to email you? I have questions and don't want to clog the board with them.<P>If you'd prefer .. I will post them here instead, just let me know.<P>Best,<BR>Jo<P>------------------<BR>"Remain flexible like a reed, as opposed to an oak which can snap in the wind"<p>[This message has been edited by Resilient (edited July 24, 2001).]

Gentle nudge to the TOP ...<P>Jo

sure Jo...<P>trueheart42@hotmail.com<P>

Thanks bunches!

Anytime...looking forward to hearing from you!

Hope you don't mind my jumping in here...<BR>Just wanted to say how much I appreciate TH's input - thank you! I printed that beautiful letter you wrote for WS's in the hopes of getting my H to read it some day. Thanks for all of your help!<BR>S

Thanks again, TrueHeart.<P>I decided to place my questions here so that others can benefit from you responses. Here they are:<P>1. During the A, did the OW say bad things about your W, and if so, how did you feel about that? <P>2. You mentioned in your response to me on another Post that eventually the A starts to fall apart. Can I ask how long before the A you were involved in started to crumble? And were you and the OW living together at the time?<P>3. When you were in the midst of the A, was there a time you were 100% sure you were doing the right thing by being with the OW? No doubts.<P>4. I don't know how manipulative your OW was, but my H's is VERY (no exaggeration). She pushed him relentlessly to leave me and then to D me (this is not speculation, it's based on fact, I listened to her pages) So, from your experience and in your opinion, how will that come into play in their relationship?<P>5. Did your wife ever Plan B you throughout the ordeal? How did you react?<P>I have more, TrueHeart, but I didn't want to inundate you with the first bevy of questions. I so much appreciate you helping me and the time you take to respond. It means alot to me ....<P>God Bless you,<BR>Jo<p>[This message has been edited by Resilient (edited July 24, 2001).]

Jo and SoBelle...<P>Thanks for trusting me enough to ask for my help...<BR>After what I have been through and done, I feel it is the least I can do...like STL...whatever I can do, if I help even one WS or one couple, it is worth it!<P>Now..on to Jo's questions...<P>A) At first, when the things were said, it was my belief that OW was trying to help me see the inadequacies in our marriage and in W. As time went on, I saw it as her attempts to build her (OW) up and belittle W. I came to resent it and realize her motives were selfish. Where, in the beginning she said what I needed to hear (in terms of the A taking root), I came to defend W, if not verbally, at least in my mind.<P>B)I think the time thing depends on each WS and what they are getting from the A. If it is an A that has gone on as they knew each other as friends before hand, it can take longer. If it is more like...meeting someone you didn't know beforehand, the passion tends to wear off quicker and you see that things aren't what you really thought. You tend to see the faults quicker. In my case, it took about two months, but the A lasted longer because I felt guilty hurting OW, and as W didn't know yet, she wasn't hurt.(How's that for a justification to continue??) But, my feelings were dwindling for OW, I was just too weak to end it. (weaker than I was to begin it)I never lived with OW, but stayed with her on many occasions. I had moved out, had my own place, but never the full commitment to the A to live together. That was my first clue that something was not up to snuff. After that, it died a slow death, much to slow for me.<P>C) The only time I ever felt that I was doing the right thing was in the very beginning, when she would point out W's faults and how she could fill the voids in my life. It was at that time, when I was easily manipulated, that I felt she was who I belonged with, but she was hitting all right triggers then.<P>D) If OP is manipulative in the A, two things are going to happen in their relationship...<BR>They are going to be very manipulative and controlling. Talk about a short leash!!! If you have an A with a married person, are you gonna let em out of your sight and control for a second? NO WAY!! In some ways, it is even tougher than recovery...he will have to account for his time constantly, he will have demands placed on him, she will smother him, dominate any free time he has, and basically schedule and run his life.<P>The other thing that happens is they learn to use guilt very well. Two common phrases from controlling OW I found were...<BR>"Look at all I have done for you. Haven't I helped you, made you feel loved and wanted?"...<BR>and...<BR>"How could you do this to me?"<P>When a WS is still in the fog, the OP can literally guilt you into anything they want, short of killing someone.<P>E) My Plan B went something like this...we hadn't found MB yet..."You want an open relationship..you got it!! I will now be like you...go anywhere, anytime, with anyone I want. I will have fun, and if I find someone in the meantime, while you find yourself and work on your problems, then so be it. I deserve the right to be happy, and if there is someone out there that can do it better than you, I deserve that man. If you can screw anyone you want, so can I, and you have no right to ask me about it. Do not expect any information from me on my whereabouts or activities. If you want to stay married, fine, but I am not committed to anything but me for now."<P>WAKE UP CALL, HUH????<P>Well, it was pretty much immediate in its effect. I hadn't found MB until about a week later, but did a NO Contact letter on my own. I then spent the next two weeks begging and pleading for a second chance and arranging counselling for myself and us. I have since had no contact, nor wanted any, and have set my task everyday to let her know how much I love her and how sorry I am. It has been the hardest thing I have ever done, besides knowing how much I hurt her. Those WS that say that giving up the OP is hard, have not fully realized what they did yet, because the hardest thing I have ever done is realize how much hurt and anger I put on her. Long answer to your short question...LOL...I reacted by doing the right thing! <P>I am not a saint. What I did was horrible, and I live with it everyday in my mind. Those WS that dont, have no conscience. As a WS, you dont *just get over it*. You may ignore it or bury it, but it will resurface. You work on forgiving yourself and doing all you can to ensure it never happens again. I hope this helps Jo, and I dont mind you sending more queries if you have them.<P>*Go confidently in the direction of your dreams.*<P>Trueheart<BR>

trueheart,<P>I too printed out your letter, and I did share it with my H, I do believe that he read it but did not discuss it.<P>Thanks for writing such a letter and for all of the help that you give to us when we ask.<P>D

Dawn..<P>You are most welcome! I only hope that some of the WS that read it, actually see themselves in it and realize how much they have screwed up. It takes alot more courage to admit that and come home to fix it than to have the A, keep it going and run away from things. I hope your H can realize that too!<P>*Go confidently in the direction of your dreams.*<P>Trueheart

So do I, I just hope that I haven't made it feel like he can't come to me and say that he is wrong, or that he is not brave enough to acknowledge what he is doing is wrong, somewhere I think he knows that, but the tunnel vision that he has only has her at the end, not the whole picture.<P>We talked one time about it not working and I said that the door is open but there would have to be alot of talking and working together. He said he figured that it was but did not want to assume and was glad of the re assurance.<P>I am out the door to go sub on my sons bowling team, if I beat him he owes me dinner and vice a verse. He cares a 190 avg and me a 160, he went early to practice, scared a lil bit? It's fun to mess with him a little, it gives me an edge.<P>Will check in later from work. My last night for this week Yeah! <P>Thanks so much for sharing trueheart, i really needed the lift, like I stated I am pretty independent and only ask when I really need help. That is probably something that pushed H away, that he perceived me not needing him, Ha!<P>D

OMG… TrueHeart, some of the things you have said ring so true. Even some of the words you used, my H had used the same ones. It’s eerie. <P>Thank you for this, somehow hearing you describe your feelings during the A helps me, thinking regardless of how determined and convincing a WS may be, they certainly are basing their decisions solely on just “feelings”. <P>I do have more questions. I hope it’ll be okay for me to post them later on this thread to you.<P>I never saw the post with your “Letter” that everyone here is thanking you for. Can you pls link me to that thread as well?<P>Thank you again … you’ve been wonderful!<P>TrueHeart, I will pray for you and your wife's successful recovery, I believe God is watching over your family and guided you here.<P><BR>Love,<BR>Jo<P>

Jo, <P>You can post anytime!! I bumped the letter to the top. Seems we have some new folks and a few new WS that may want to see it! Thanks for asking!<P>*Go confidently in the direction of your dreams.*<P>Trueheart