Any WS want to tell me how to work on forgiving yourself? My husband has said that he forgives me for my EA. But I can't seem to forgive myself. I still want to run away, some days it seems like it would be so much easier.<P>------------------<BR>When we walk to the edge of all the light we have, and take that step into the darkness of the unknown, we must believe that one of two things will happen - there will be something there for us to stand on, or God will teach us how to fly.

Hiya Marissa...<P>Man oh man have I struggled with this one!! I am not sure we will ever totally forgive ourselves, and I am not sure that is a bad thing. It keeps us honest with ourselves and helps us maintain a perspective that shows us how much we love our H/W. <P>But a couple of suggestions to lessen the events that trigger the anxiety... and I would talk them over with H to make sure he is ok with them.<P>One thing I do, is whenever the thoughts of what happened hit me, I make a phone call, or buy/send a card just to remind her and me how much I love her and thank her for giving me a second chance. I replace the bad thought, with a good thought or gesture.<P>Another thing I do is just a little visualization of us walking on a beach or having a picnic. I just try to transfer the negative energy with positives. I dont dwell on negatives. Another thing that I do is to journal. I write about three times a week. It helps to organize the thoughts and take an inventory of where I am at that point. Just getting it out of my head so it cant build up is a big help to me. <P>And time...time helps. The more time that goes by, and the stronger we become, the less the old tapes run in my mind. <P>Hang in there! It fades...replace it with all the good stuff!<P>*Go confidently in the direction of your dreams.*<P>Trueheart

Marissa,<P>[QUOTE]Originally posted by Marissa:<P>But I can't seem to forgive myself. I still want to run away, some days it seems like it would be so much easier.<P>Can you please elaborate on this? Did you ever feel that divorcing your H would be easier than facing the truth?<BR>Seems my W may be facing a similar dillema. How did you feel after EA was exposed/confessed?<P>sad dad<BR>

Well it was easy for my wife. she forgot all about it a week after it happened. Then later forgot all about it three days after being found out. Sh euses the idea it was the ther man's fault and so she is blameless because the other guy set it up. So I guess it all depends on how we look at these things. Also for the BS some forgive in a few days and others hold a grudge the rest of their lives and some have a revenge affair with the thinking it's only fair. So for the BS it also depends on their thinking and viewpoint. It should be harder for the BS than for the WS I think. If they can do it so can the WS do it easily. Of course easier said than done because deep feelings are involved.

trueheart - thank you for replying! I have been reading alot of your postings and you sould very helpful and understanding. I don't mean necessarily to forget it ever happened, but this beating myself up on a daily basis has got to end at some point, right? It seems like everything is a trigger. I let the OM so far into my head and heart that I don't know if I will ever be able to get him out.<BR> <BR>sad dad - I can try to elaborate. For a very long time it seemed like divorce would be easier. We tried counseling, which was a disaster. I was in denial for quite a while and refused to do no contact. The marriage was in pieces long before the EA as far as I was concerned. I still have days when my conflict avoiding self wants to run, hide, move to another country, anything to get away from this mess.<BR> <BR>Rodger - I'm sorry your W isn't owning her part of the responsibility for her A. I know it was my fault, and I freely admit it. To the point of hyperventilating fom crying so hard. My husband is being very good and trying to understand what happened. I just can't seem to feel that anything is changing.<P>------------------<BR>When we walk to the edge of all the light we have, and take that step into the darkness of the unknown, we must believe that one of two things will happen - there will be something there for us to stand on, or God will teach us how to fly.

Marissa,<P>You will get him out. Tell your H you need his support. Replace those video clips and voices with the ones you truly want to be there. It is not magic and doesnt happen overnight. Try to limit the triggers as much as you can, and the ones that you cannot avoid, realize they are going to happen, and lessen their effect. It takes practice, but it can be done, and they will fade! It is a process, but one well worth it. Don't hide if from H. Let him know you are working on it and want it to change, and he will be more inclined to help, as well as understand it!!<P>*Go confidently in the direction of your dreams.*<P>Trueheart

Marissa,<P>Below is an article from American Ethical Union titled " <BR>Steps to Seeking Forgiveness" that is probably the best example in plain words I have ever read. Its long-winded basis can be found in any psychological/reconciliation book or in the roots of all major religions.<P>I have always felt that within the process of seeking forgiveness one will ultimately begin to forgive them self.<BR><B><BR>Steps to Seeking Forgiveness -applying ethical philosophy to the practicalities of living<P>Phase 1: Acknowledge wrong-doing<P>1. Clarify why a certain behavior was hurtful. Without understanding the harmful effects of your behavior, it will be difficult to change. Attempt to understand the hurt or pain from the point of view of those who have been hurt, and try to understand the harmful effect on yourself.<P>2. Acknowledge to yourself and others that the behavior was a mistake. Being able to acknowledge the mistake verbally is an important first step if the relationship is to be healed.<P>3. Express genuine sorrow to all those involved for the mistake you have made. When you understand the harmful effects of your behavior, and can express that with true feelings of sorrow, you open up possibilities for change and for healing.<P><BR>Phase 2: Make amends<P>1. Act out of a deep sense of honoring yourself and the other party involved. Don't cater to postures of narrow defensiveness. It is courageous to face up to the harm you have done. Take the first step toward healing by being generous and proactive in your attempts to reconcile.<P>2. Find a "stroke" that is equal to your "blow." Do this by asking the party that is hurt what you can do that is equally positive to balance the negative. This is ultimately only symbolic, since we cannot undo past harm. <BR>But it is a critical sign of goodwill and true remorse.<P>3. Make amends in a timely manner. The longer you delay, the more wounds will fester. So act as swiftly as the processing of your feelings will allow.<P><BR>Phase 3: Commit to change<P>1. Make a clear commitment to change your harmful patterns of behavior. This may involve clarifying what kinds of events trigger your destructive responses, and finding ways to avoid such situations or training yourself <BR>to respond differently.<P>2. Act visibly on your commitment. Change involves not only words, but actions, such as: appropriate counseling, courses in relationship skills, publicly asking for help in identifying your harmful patterns and support in your not acting on them.<P>3. Respect the process of change. Acknowledge to yourself and others that it is hard to change, and that behaviors deeply imbedded do not disappear quickly. Don't condemn yourself for slipping, and don't condone your old <BR>ways or trivialize their harmfulness. Rather, accept the actual without losing sight of the ideal.<P>A couple notable quotes from Felix Adler's An Ethical Philosophy of Life, <BR>Book III, Chapter VI: "The Meaning of Forgiveness"<P> "Every kind of [morally hurtful act] is an attempt in some fashion to live at the expense of other life. The spiritual principle is: live in the life of others, in the energy expended to promote the essential life in others. <BR>Moral badness is self-isolation, detachment. Spirituality is consciousness of infinite interrelatedness." <P><BR> "The most effectual aid [to forgiveness] is faith in the better nature of the wrongdoer." <P></B><BR>I hope this can be of some help.<BR>

Marissa,<P>I hope you can find a way to forgive yourself. You and your H need to work very hard on adressing the problems that lead to your A and avoiding conflict seems to be an obvious one. Conflicts are unavoidable in marriage and not adressing them is a cancer. If my W had told me what I was doing that made her unhappy, we wouldn't be where we are today. It's not her fault, that's how she's always dealt with things and it worked for the most part. If I hadn't done things to make her unhappy, there wouldn't be a conflict to avoid. Your A (and my W's) needn't be the end of your marriage, but a chance for you both to grow and learn. My prayers are with you.<P>sad dad

Well as the designated selfish, immature resident ws, I may as well weigh in. I don't see forgiveness as relevant. Forgiveness (of self) implies I would do something different if could do over......I wouldn't. That does not mean I am particularly happy with how my actions affected others, it just means I understand what happened (pretty much). I had this discussion a while back somewhere else. We discussed whether one would need to be forgiven (either by self or others) if they had a car accident and killed someone (assuming one was driving within reasonable norms, not perfect, just reasonable). My answer is no. There would be no point to such feelings, or asking forgiveness from the injured family. IMO seeking forgiveness for unevitable outcomes diminishes the concept of forgiveness, might as well run around asking forgiveness for everything...since no one, and no "action" is perfect (doesn't affect someone adversely if we look hard enuf). If an affair "happens" for sound psychological reasons...meaning you did not set out to do it, or even knew what one felt like before was too late..... then there is no way to have prevented it. OTOH, repeating the behaviour is a whole nother ballgame. I am forgiven by God for being human (assuming I make the requisite leap of faith), I don't need to forgive myself, or ask anyone elses forgiveness for being human. I may have regret, or remorse, and of course guilt, but forgiveness...no, not relevant IMO. This was an analytical response, but it may help explain why so many ws seem "selfish"...we aren't, it is just the reality of human behaviour you are seeing. IMO focusing on such things is a waste of emotional energy, better spent on figuring out what happened, why, and taking appropriate action.

Marissa:<P>As a recovering WS, I use the following.<P>As mentioned above, first comes acknowledging the wrong that was done: this step essentially strips away any lingering denial.<P>Second, realize that your spouse has forgiven you, but it is never forgotten. To counter this, you have to work at re-establishing trust and work at depositing love units in the ol' love bank. That is what meeting the emotional needs and fulfilling the four rules (time, care, protection and honesty).<P><I>Surviving An Affair</I> and <I>His Needs, Her Needs</I> spell these out. Implementing the techniques will go a long way to rebuilding the foundation of your marriage. In addition, I heartily recommend Gregory Godek's <I>1001 Ways to be Romantic</I>.<P>Analyze why you erred. What contributed to your decision-making process that led you to an affair? What can you do to ensure those circumstances to not recur? Take an aggressive and pro-active course. Counseling helps tremendously, because we are often blind to things, and an unbiased and trained observer can guide you to that understanding.<P>Lastly, while recognizing that you erred in the past, you and your husband should look now to the future. Continuously flogging yourself (or being flogged) will hinder the marital healing. But be aware that he will have questions for some time yet. Answer them honestly, but with care and protection in mind. Honesty, honesty, honesty: I cannot stress it enough. Be honest with each other and with yourself.<P>Hope these words help,<BR>Godspeed,<BR>STL

One night in a church service a young woman felt the tug of God at her heart. She responded to God's call and accepted Jesus as her Lord and Savior. The young woman had a very rough past, involving alcohol, drugs, and prostitution. But, the change in her was evident. As time went on she became a faithful member of the church. She eventually became involved in the ministry, teaching young children.<P>It was not very long until this faithful young woman had caught the eye and heart of the pastor's son. The relationship grew and they began to make wedding plans. This is when the problems began.<P>You see, about one half of the church did not think that a woman with a past such as hers was suitable for a pastor's son. The church began to argue and fight about the matter. So they decided to have a meeting. As the people made their arguments and tensions increased, the meeting was getting completely out of hand.<P>The young woman became very upset about all the things being brought up about her past. As she began to cry, the pastor's son stood to speak. He could not bear the pain it was causing his wife-to-be. He began to speak and his statement was this: "My financee's past is not what is on trial here. What you are questioning is the ability of the blood of Jesus to wash away sin. Today you have put the blood of Jesus on trial. So, does it wash away sin or not?" The whole church began to weep as they realized they had been slandering the blood of the Lord Jesus Christ.<P>Too often, even as Christians, we bring up the past and use it as a weapon against our brothers and sisters. Forgiveness is a very foundational part of the Gospel of the Lord Jesus Christ. If the blood of Jesus does not cleanse the other person completely then it cannot cleanse us completely. If that is the case, then we are all in a lot of trouble...<P>(author unknown)

Thank you all so much for your replies. I will spend alot of time thinking about what you all have said before I write any more.

<B>Forgiveness (of self) implies I would do something different if could do over......I wouldn't. That does not mean I am particularly happy with how my actions affected others, it just means I understand what happened </B><P>Well, as usual I cannot let this post go unchallenged...<BR>S_N_L, you are mistaken as to the purpose of "forgiveness." <P>Forgiveness DOES NOT imply YOU would do something differently....it STATES simply that you ACKNOWLEDGE you have done something wrong and want to rectify that with the person you wronged, who would have every right to PUNISH you. I am not making this up...I took it from the WEbster's dictionary definition of "Forgive" - it states: "forgive: to give up being angry with or wanting to punish, pardon; to excuse or overlook an offense, to cancel a debt."<P>Yes, you have offended your S by going outside the bounds of M to look for emotional/physical comfort. We are bound by the vows we took at our Wedding to ONLY give those elements of ourselves to our spouses. That is what makes an A particularly hurtful...the knowledge that a part of what makes a M different from every other human interaction has been broken....this is old ground...we've covered it.<P>YOUR "understanding" what/how it happened is of no consequence to the one you have offended: your W. SHE is the one who "has the right" to withhold or give forgiveness. Having said that, however, let me add that Jesus Christ is the one who teaches us HOW to forgive....I find that those people with "some" level of a relationship/understanding of the nature of God are better able to get a handle on forgiveness, and do it.<P>Humans are made "in the image of God" - and God is a forgiving God, therefore we have the ability to "forgive" - something other creatures on our planet do not have. WHY? Because we CAN hurt each other emotionally, animals cannot. It is the hurt you have inflicted on others that is the need for forgiveness, NOT whether YOU feel you need to be forgiven.<P>You are correct, NO individual is perfect, therefore ALL have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God, and ALL need forgiveness....and acknowledging that fact goes a long way toward our acceptance of forgiveness of others. I suspect that is what is truly behind your LACK of acceptance of feeling like you NEED forgiveness; that you don't really believe you DESERVE it. But since we are ALL sinners in one way or another, we ALL need it, and God loves us, so he makes us deserving! It's the greatest news of all!! <P>Lupo<BR>