Why is it, since our WS have not been meeting our needs any more than we were meeting their needs, that we still love them and most of them don't think they love us?<P>There have been times when I felt rather "numb" toward my H...thinking that I wasn't "in love" with him, but that I "cared" about him, but after talking with our pastor's wife (who also had a degree in counseling) years ago, I came to understand that this was likely a temporary thing...that it was a way of protecting myself from further hurt (because of his LBing behavior toward me at the time).<P>Sometimes I just get tired of loving someone who doesn't much act like he really loves me. I get tired of feeling like I'm his "obligation", KWIM?

Dear LC,<P>Couldn't agree with you more. Doesn't sound logical does it? Then again as was said before, the reason: Because love is..... <P>According to the Bible, Love is long suffering and kind, it has kindness, goodness, faith, mildness and self-control. And against such things there is no law. <P>Yet the WS does not have this kind of love. There's is a feeling of selfishness, short tempered and unkind. Promotes badness (ex: lying), avoids goodness, belittles faith, angry not mild and has a general lack of self control. <P>L.

Love just is...<P>We all have the potential to be emotionally weak...for whatever reason most BS's have chosen to not be selfish, to love despite and in spite of EN's being met or not met...<P>Most WS's would say they they 'love' or have some kind of 'attachment' to BS...what is missing for them is the excitement or the 'in-love' feeling...<P>They have felt dead, uncared for, the OP is like an oasis to them...they are no longer willing to let BS be that oasis...<P>WS's are in crisis...it seems easier to start something new than fix the old...<P>IMO, anyway,<BR>Cali<P>------------------<BR><I>Live Impeccably In Your Word.<BR>Don't Take Anything Personally.<BR>Make No Assumptions.<BR>Do Your Best Always. </I>

Hi LC,<P>this is a good question, and you're so right about our WSs not meeting our needs. For me this has been like a vicious circle in our relationship and Harley describes it well by characterising our behaviours as being dictated by our Givers and Takers. I know that in the past my Taker has been very demanding. She's not giving so why should I ?<P>To be very honest, I know that I'd started withdrawing from my wife and I didn't love her as I should have. She wasn't meeting my EN's so I just wasn't prepared to give anymore and meet hers. And I really felt that I'd done enough. Because I wasn't meeting her EN's anymore I'd allowed her to be vulnerable and she was open to the A.<P>The shock of realising what was happening was quickly followed by feelings of humiliation, betrayal and pain. Initially I wanted to hurt her back but finding this site was a blessing. It may me realise that I've let my wife down terribly. It also made me realise that somebody has to break the vicious circle. She (the WS) wasn't going to because she was in the fog. After all, the WSs are having such a great time they're enjoying themselves. So, if I wanted to save my marriage, it had to be me.<P>Since I started my Plan A, it's also had an affect on me. It forced me to put my needs to one side for a moment. And it forced me to focus on my feelings for my wife and meeting her ENs. Since I've been Plan Aing my love for my wife has been re-established and strengthened.<P>At first my wife thought I was pathetic. There's no way that I could compete with the OM (her words). She didn't believe what she was seeing. Many of our friends were asking her what was wrong with me and this caused her to be even more critical of my behaviour. Despite this, I haven't stopped Plan Aing. Everyday.<P>I can't Plan A forever without some returns on that effort. I don't believe anybody is that strong. I count myself lucky that my wife is responding. There's still much to do and we still have a long ways to go but her responses makes it worth it.<P>So, back to your question - why do we 'love' em when they don't love us ? I believe it's because we BSs aren't in the fog. The BSs are able to work out what's going on and then, if they're strong enough they go the extra mile and make the necessary sacrifices. It's the BS who leads the marriage back to health. Not the WS. <P>take care,<P>[This message has been edited by Freddy (edited July 25, 2001).]<p>[This message has been edited by Freddy (edited July 25, 2001).]

LC:<P>As BSs, we see the world a little differently than our WSs do. We see what was a wonderful past, w/o the revisionist history, we see the potential, we see the H or W that we belive they can be once they get past the A and comeout of the fog. They don't see that. That's the big difference.<P>We each have our own capacity to continue w/o our needs being met. How long is a decision we each must make.<P>It has been more than 4 months for me and I admit that there are times when it is frustrating. But when that happens I pick myself up and say tomorrow will be another day. It is truly a day-by-day experience. Not the easiest thing to do but necessary. <P>Keep your chin up and take it day-by-day.<P>Good luck <P>E

Cali said,<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>They have felt dead, uncared for<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>This is a good description of clinical depression, and I believe THAT is the difference between most BS's and most WS's - the latter are most often suffering from clinical depression, and the BS, while they may suffer from situational depression after the affair begins, generally speaking are not. <BR>

You are definitely shielding yourself from hurt by plunging into these periods of "numbness" in which you question even your past love for your spouse. I've done the same, and I am willing to say that most of us have as well. Don't feel like you are betraying the love you both had, though, think of it as you are protecting it. You've locked it deeper inside your heart, to protect if from harm. And when the time is right, it will be easier to let it out again, than if you had let it out all along, and allowed it to be torn and trodden.

>>So, back to your question - why do we 'love' em when they don't love us ? I believe it's because we BSs aren't in the fog. The BSs are able to work out what's going on and then, if they're strong enough they go the extra mile and make the necessary sacrifices. It's the BS who leads the marriage back to health. Not the WS. >><P>Freddy,<BR>AMEN! Well said and I agree 100%.<P>Hugs..<BR>Winny<P>

I liken the situation to that of parenting, somewhat, to answer your question. WS are, for the most part, lost. Just as you would not give up on your child, you will not give up on the spouse you love. The BS is still committed and looks to help the WS back from whatever Hell they have found and/or created. A parent does not turn their back on a child that is wayward, in most cases. They try to teach, help, learn, and whatever else they need in order to bring the child back and help them. Why would you not do the same for your WS, who you committed to spend the rest of your life with. I admit, not all WS "get it" right away, and I have read some exploits of BS in here that make me question why some of you last as long as you do! But we all different saturation levels at which we can take no more.<P>It is sort of like the game of golf. In a round of golf, we will have those 6-7 really fantastic shots per game that keep us coming back while the other 80-90 are average shots or worse. The same can be said of the WS and their actions. The BS will see 2-3 acts per day or week (or in some cases months), that make you see who you fell in love with, the true love of your life that you married. It is those 2-3 acts that keep you hanging on hoping that person will return to you. <P>I dont have the answers for anyone, but I am hoping that I understand well enough to articulate it so you might too. <P>*Go confidently in the direction of your dreams.*<P>Trueheart

What you've all said is so true.<P>I've been Plan Aing for the past 3 years, and I guess I'm just discouraged....especially since my H informed me Sunday that if he wanted to go to the bar without me, he was going to go. Even though the situation has changed (he won't be going to the bar anymore, because the owner's wife got it in their divorce and he can't stand the wife ), it still rankles that my feelings don't seem to matter to him. Yet, he expects ME to not go to the bar simply because he was insulted by the now-former owner's wife...considers it a major LB showing a lack of caring and respect for HIM!<P> Guess how that makes me feel? Right! I wanna go out to the bar just to show him! Actually, I've been thinking that it might be a way of opening some dialogue. He will most assuredly make his displeasure known, so a few well-chosen non-LBing words might help open his eyes a little.<P> Oh,yes! He did bring up the fact that he "had to quit" going to Cafe Woman's restaurant (yeah, after 2-1/2 years of telling him that I wanted him to stay away from her). I asked him if he resented that, and he said no, so I guess he HAS learned a little bit.<P> We'll probably be running into Cafe Woman on Saturday, since we'll be attending the same event. I guess I'll have to wait and see if there's any reaction from H upon seeing her or if there's any interaction between them when I'm "not looking"...as if I won't be! HA! H is in charge of the wristbands for the event, and CW came to our business to pick hers up (the wristbands haven't arrived, yet). I did tell H that when the wristbands came in, that <B>I</B> would take them to CW. We'll see....<P> Well, I'll have to talk myself out of my rebellious, tired-of-Plan=A streak. Wish me luck!<BR>