<p>[ January 10, 2002: Message edited by: LonelyAtNight ]</p>

Don't do it. You CAN express anger respectfully, but don't expect any results. A very good lesson I learned from my counselor.

<p>[ January 10, 2002: Message edited by: LonelyAtNight ]</p>

LonelyAtNight,<P>I understand that you do not know how to talk nicely anymore. You are worn out First realize that from what you are saying here you have good reason to be upset. . My advice is that you say this in a letter because if you speak you are going to blow it big time.<P>You see she is only going to hear the anger, not the words.<P>I will take a stab at writing a letter for you using the words here. Maybe that will help you find the right words at this time when it is so hard. Just give me some time here.<P>Your wife sounds non-functional. Is she depressed and has she sought help for it?<P><BR>Z<P>------------------<BR>He loves not who does not show love.<BR>----William Shakespeare<p>[This message has been edited by zorweb (edited July 25, 2001).]

Hi, <P>Have you tried role reversal? When I was not getting through to my H, I tried role reversal. I asked if H would put up with my doing what he does. Can I do it also? How about if I went out and had an A, not clean up after myself, leave things lying around the house, spend my money on my things, ignore the family's needs, ignore his needs, etc. <P>H said he would not put up with someone like that and then wondered why I have not kicked him out? I said, oh I have thought about it and really as long as that is what OW and you are making you do here at this home, then you must leave and give that pleasure to OW. <P>Well, OW would not like that, you see she is used to being catered to not picking up after. Hm..... <P>Better their self esteem. That is the goal. Just like not spoiling our children. How does she feel about that? Then why should things be different for her? <P>Fair is fair. Would she like you to give her more to do? I am sure you can accomodate that request in a minute. Now I leave H's things in a pile. He does not like going through piles but that is where he leaves things. I do not appreciate him clogging up our home with his junk all over the place. Mind you, I am not Mrs. Clean, [censored] and Span. <P>I would like to be but that is not fully possible, however, I do not appreciate anyone adding to my work when they are fully capable to doing it themselves. I do not run a military style home. I just want a comfortable one that I can be comfortable in. <P>You know, I don't want to come home and feel like this is my 2nd and 3rd job and not my home!!!! <P>L.<BR>

<p>[ January 10, 2002: Message edited by: LonelyAtNight ]</p>

What you're proposing to do is set reasonable boundaries. Enough is enough. The problem is that nothing is likely to happen other than you getting more frustrated.<P>She needs help for possible depression, but you can't force this.<P>Is it possible for you to take one thing at a time instead of throwing down the gauntlet for everything at once? I'm suggesting this from a practical standpoint as maybe being more effective in making changes.<P>WAT

Hi,<P>Just wanted to clarify. By role reversal I mean that it is ok for you to act as she does in this A and other related stuff that you know she disapproves of. Have you read hi-fidelity's post? <P>Strong stuff, not recommended for those in the early stages but something to think about. I don't recommend the harsh high road, but after all other avenues have been explored sometimes, they work. I know, been there to a degree and done that. My H did not appreciate my efforts to work with him. So I had to leave him be and take care of my needs and that of our son. Seeing that he did not want to be left behind is one of his motivating factors. Plan A did not work for my H, but may work for others. The BS's responsibility is to understand the differences between both plans, understand the plans and be able to clearly evaluate it then put it to work. <P>JMHO.<P>L.<BR>

LAN,<P>I understand not being able to talk to her nicely. It's hard to be angry AND nice. I actually began counseling because of my anger...let me explain what I was taught:<P>Express your feeling to your W. And it has to be a feeling, and YOUR feeling. Example:<P>"I feel angry." "I feel sad." "I feel hurt." "I feel frustrated." (sounds pretty simple) Don't yell but you CAN express it with a firm tone.<P>Next: "When I come home and the house is a mess and there is nothing for dinner, I feel like you don't care."<P>Next step: "If you could contribute to the household responsibilities by (insert what you want, just one thing at a time, don't overload her with everything), then I would be more relaxed and happy when I come home and I would feel that you care about our relationship." (or whatever it would make you FEEL).<P>This may not change her behavior and don't expect it to. But you will have expressed your anger without an outburst. I had to write an outline and practice in front of a mirror a few times before I put it into action. If she starts getting angry...don't respond, just say: "I wanted you to know how I feel" and let it go. What it did for me was release the anger I felt instead of it building up. It felt good to ask for what I wanted. But like I said (and my counselor keeps stressing) don't do it with the expectation that the behavior will change, do it for yourself. We can't expect to change someone's behavior, that is up to them.<P>I really am sorry for what you are going through because you seem really frustrated. I can't begin to understand what your situation is like at home, but I do understand anger and not being able to communicate your anger effectively with your spouse. It's one of the hardest things I've had to deal with. <P>Take care.

Dear LAN,<BR>Wow. I could just feel and understand everything you said about how you want the kids to eat healthier and the grocery errands done on the weekend and more home cooking, etc.<P>Your wife is a night owl. What if she did her grocery shopping late at night? Some stores stay open 24-hours. AND what if you chose some simple recipes from the web and presented them to her.<P>I have a great book with very simple home-cooked recipes for kids and I'm sure there are some other good ones out there. If she is not much of a cook, even some refrigerated breadsticks wrapped around a hotdog and baked in the oven is cheaper than fast food and wouldn't take long to fix.<P>I am so like you when it comes to groceries and lunches and healthy eating. Isn't it funny how God sets us up with spouses who are not only different from us, but opposite in many ways? These things you ask for are not much.<P>At least not to me. I LOVE to celebrate birthdays. My hubby does not. I'm feelin' ya...<P>So basically, my suggestion is that she try her shopping and cooking at night when she is "up." Since the kids are older, they probably know how to use the microwave? Perhaps she could even fix your lunches at night when she is up late and that way you would have it all ready for the next day?<P>What if you told her that you needed her help and that you are counting on her? For some reason when my husband put it to me that way regarding my overspending, it shook me up and I felt responsible. You have spoiled your wife by doing all the shopping and cooking in the past. She might feel like you will criticize her shopping and cooking. Perhaps you could even make a list of what you will need for your lunch? She might need more help and guidance than you think because she doesn't want to disappoint you? I'm starting to ramble, but hope this helps!

<p>[ January 10, 2002: Message edited by: LonelyAtNight ]</p>

<p>[ January 10, 2002: Message edited by: LonelyAtNight ]</p>

<p>[ January 10, 2002: Message edited by: LonelyAtNight ]</p>

Well LAN aka gourmet cook and pro shopper,<BR>Be gentle and go easy on her, after all, you trained her to rely on you to take care of all the meals and shopping over the years.<P>It's difficult to hand the ball over after you have taken charge and ran the show in a certain department. And, it's difficult to pick up that ball. Personally, I enjoy shopping at night when there's only me shopping and the night crew stocking shelves. No lines, no crowds, no fuss. It's pretty difficult to get mugged when you're the only one out there! Again, be g e n t l e!

<p>[ January 10, 2002: Message edited by: LonelyAtNight ]</p>

LAN,<P>I agree with Zen on the letter, it's proabably easier to express your feelings. Be careful though and don't put in anything negative that she can use later. Remember, anything that is written down can and will be used later for arguments sake. Words although may come across angry usually are forgotten over time if not too bad. Letters can be kept forever. Believe me I speak from experience. I sent a very sarcastic and condecending email to my W that I truly believe triggered her decision to have the A. The dumbest thing I've ever done ever ever ever. So be careful!<BR>GC

<p>[ January 10, 2002: Message edited by: LonelyAtNight ]</p>