I have been doing alot of thinking as of late. My W knows the MB principals. She knows what LB is she knows about the love basket. She knows she is doing wrong and has made the worst mistake to let the other man back in her life. She knows that she loves me. She wants the OM to be a father to the baby. She wants her ex to be a father to her older children, and she wants me to make something of myself. She has issues of trust with me. Issues regarding pornography, sex, and my sincerity. I am not nice, she has told me and I have been a lousey stepdad to her older boys.<P>All that said.. admist the relationship that she is currently having, this affair has just rebirthed. The longer that he is there the worse things are going to be for her and I. She knows this and even told him this this weekend while the three of us had our 'talk'.<P>She told me that she wanted him out within 2 months, giving him time to find a place and get settled. All the while he is in her home, and the sex continues and the fantasy in his mind that they are going to be together forever is playing over and over again. With her.. she keeps admitting to me that this is ending and she knows based upon what she and I have learned that its over before it began. His final date there, on her notice would be September 14th.<P>Now I was there 3 days and I found 4 apartments and a house that I could have moved into. Mind you I didn't have the cash on hand. He's a plumber.. of all aspiring things.. (sorry if you are, but I don't see her with a plumber) so his pay should be sufficient to leave there now. <P>Why the two months? Why the long duration? <P>I want to send her a letter and bring the MB principals back across to her.. or just say something.. Okay, I'm not being patient today. I want this over now, before it gets to be a fully developed blister. I don't know if I can last the 2, 4, 5, or 9 months left with the love I'm trying to protect for her in my heart. I am not ready to do plan B yet because of the progress we have made. <P>I want to be firm and not LB but I want her to know.<P>I know that the TAKER in me is kicking my givers [censored] right now. I am feeling quite mischevious (sp) right now. He doesn't like me calling there. He didn't like me being there. Through patience and not LB, the OM gets knocked off his high horse and runs scared. I know that this is not the goal of plan A, but with this guy, you could say boo and he'd sheshe his pants, if it had to do with me. <P>Cali?? calling you... for suggestions. <P>The other thread I wrote this AM is not for her... it was for me to vent and get some of that burden off my shoulders.<P>Okay, think tank time. <P>------------------<BR>Husband2You<BR>*****<BR>Don't make me promises <BR>Baby you never did know how to keep them well <BR>I've had the rest of you <BR>Now I want the best of you <BR>It's time for show and tell<P>'All or Nothing' © 2001 O-Town

I don't have much advice for you, except for the fact that sometimes it's necessary to LB. What you can do is lessen the blow, by figuring out a way to say it all in a non-judgemental and threatening way. Use a lot of "I feel" statements.<P>I can understand your confusion here. She says she wants to work it out with you (by admitting the A should be over), but she wants to give this OM another 2 months? That's insane! It drives me batty that the WS can still feel compassion for the OP even once they've decided to work on the marriage. My H is the same way. <P>My head is saying to me, you've got to plan B until he's out of the house. But you're obviously not comfortable with that, so it's not a good move for you now.<P>Karen<BR>

Topie,<P>She doesn't necessarily want to work on our marriage. She hasn't said that. What she has said is that she loves us both and told us both that Monday during the talk the three of us had. We had this same talk 2 years ago. She says.. I just want to be friends, live my life and raise my children. There is nothing there for me... or him it seams. I am probably missing a piece to that puzzle. I know there is affection and sex going on. In reality.. this guy is her boy toy and that's about it. She says she wants to be alone. Manless.<P>I know that those things said that she probably really wants to try and make it work with the OM, and wants me to move on so that she doesn't feel the guilt, that it was my doing, not hers for quitting.<P>------------------<BR>Husband2You<BR>*****<BR>Don't make me promises <BR>Baby you never did know how to keep them well <BR>I've had the rest of you <BR>Now I want the best of you <BR>It's time for show and tell<P>'All or Nothing' © 2001 O-Town

H2Y,<P>advice here is difficult, however, from your postings and how you describe the relationship it does seem to me that she's sitting on the fence. As long as she is allowed to continue in this mode, you have me convinced she will. And you have absolutely no gaurantees that in 2 months time the situation will be any different. Or have you ?<P>I think the purpose of Plan B is to protect you, your love of your wife and it gives you the chance to move on with your self-respect and dignity in tact if she's not interested in rebuilding the marriage with you. As her relationship with the OM is continuing and this is (clearly) destroying you it might be time to say 'ok, babes, you finish the A first. Then we get our show on the road.' <P>If she doesn't finish the A, then you win and you move on with your life. If she does finish the affair then you also win.<P>Have strength my friend and whatever you decide, make sure you hold that head of yours high :-)<P><BR>

Okay, is there something that I can say to her in a letter other than a plan b letter that wouldn't be LB, but informative or compelling? I know all she needs is a nudge and she'll be fine. Maybe I'm putting to much faith into this. Am I? I have been here more than once with her.<P>The letter that trueheart wrote was good, but long and not as personal as I would have written it. But how does one do that in the first place. I'd rather fly him to D and pay his expenses and have him walk into her office and say those things to her. Put his arm around her and say hey, wake up. She respects the opinions of other people quite well.<P>Memory of things I have done, OM always puts me down to her about them. She follows this and he leads her from me.<P>I really need to LB with her about the OM and all the BS that he has put us both through over the past years. I want to do this constructively though... although, I know that it won't hold water with her.. I want her to think about those things, if she wants to... but I don't want her to forget where he took us.<P>Selfish huh?

H2Y,<P>I wouldn't refer to him at all - if it's an LB (which I think it would be) it'll only push her away from you. My WS keeps telling me, it's not about him, it's about you and me. So, why not take her advice and focus on you and your W, nothing more.<P>I'm also of the opinion that only you can write the letter and this needs to come from your heart. That's all that counts here. Look deep. Be honest. And you'll get there.<P>Good luck,<P>

H2Y---<P>I have to work again today ...Yeah, don't ever let them tell you teachers don't work in the summer! <P>I have to leave in a bit...just got on to check things out....I will stew on this and when I get back, hopefully I will have something worthwhile for you.<P>Off the top of my head...this may surprise you...OW said something to me in the midst of my mischeviousness as Hurricane Cali...I was calling her...not saying anything bad or disgusting...just trying to p*** her off...<P>she said, "this is not about me...this is about your marriage...what was wrong was wrong before me..."<P>So...my first suggestion is to take focus off OM...off A...focus on you and your wife.<P>My H says the same thing...he is not leaving to be with OW...doesn't want to be married or attached to anyone...needs to figure out who he is...<P>So I challenged him to do that...but without influences from anyone...including me. I am willing to be without him--while he figures things out---but, he should be without HER too....<P>2nd challenge...what are you doing to ACTIVELY figure things out? Do you have a plan? AVOIDANCE is not a plan....don't fill your head with music/tv/other distractions...What are you reading? are you journaling? are you going to church...<P>Okay...like I said...this was quick...I will think somemore on it.<P>Cali<P>------------------<BR><I>Live Impeccably In Your Word.<BR>Don't Take Anything Personally.<BR>Make No Assumptions.<BR>Do Your Best Always. </I>

Okay I sent her an email asking her if we could talk sometime today.<P>This is what she sent back to me:<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><BR>What did you want to talk to me about..<BR>I am a little nervous about what it is you are looking for, wanting..<BR>I know if I tell you look I cant see you and I together as man and wife but <BR>I want you in my life as my friend for life, it will not be good enough.. I <BR>am so afraid of loosing you as my friend and loosing my boys once again.. I <BR>dont know what to tell you anymore..<BR>I care for you and I want you to change your life for you..<BR>For our boys..<BR>I want them close to me..<BR><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Now what? Everything is sooo different when I'm there. She wants me she doesn't... <P><P>------------------<BR>Husband2You<BR>*****<BR>Don't make me promises <BR>Baby you never did know how to keep them well <BR>I've had the rest of you <BR>Now I want the best of you <BR>It's time for show and tell<P>'All or Nothing' © 2001 O-Town

Husband2You,<P>It seems to me that it's very clear what she's telling you. If this is truly where her heart is, I'm not sure you can change that. <P>good luck,<P>

Freddy,<P>Is there still an affair going on here? I mean, what she is saying has no mention of the OM. Is she just being deceptive as to what is going to happen when she and I are 'just' friends? Sound like worth trying even?<P><P>------------------<BR>Husband2You<BR>*****<BR>Don't make me promises <BR>Baby you never did know how to keep them well <BR>I've had the rest of you <BR>Now I want the best of you <BR>It's time for show and tell<P>'All or Nothing' © 2001 O-Town

and then I just got this..<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><BR>Hello again,<BR>Sorry about lunch.. Did not mean to be short with you..<BR>Sister and OM are freaking out..<BR>So I am a little on edge..<BR>I have to do some re-figuring in my life once again..<BR>I want you to know that I am somewhat enjoying my peace or what is left of <BR>it.. I am not willing to loose your Friendship to anyone or anything so <BR>please trust me on that..<BR>I will talk to you but it has to be on scheduled times..<BR>I am missing alot of time with the boys.. and it is showing..<BR>well I need to get going<BR><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Does this ring the same message as the first one?

H2Y,<P>I've been thinking about you all evening man. I was really troubled by your posting. I've just been able to logon and read your last postings.<P>Now, I may be wrong but the way I interpret this - and this maybe hard for you, so brace yourself - I not only think that the affair is continuing. I also think that the OM is asking her to break contact with you. He wants you gone from her life. That's really hard man, but that's what I read into her emails to you.<P>She's saying she wants you as a friend. She's also saying that she won't give up this friendship for anybody - and I interpret this as meaning the OM too. However, she knows you want more and this worries her.<P>Husband2You, although this is really hard on you, I think you've got to play the only card you have on the table. You can also play a damned good one, I just don't know if it's gonna be good enough to save your marriage.<P>If you want me to outline a plan, post back. If you want me to keep quite that's fine too.<P>I'm there with you H2Y. <P>take care my friend.<P>

H2Y,<P>Just read back your postings. I think I have a plan that would mean you can really crap on the OMs patch and if you have the strength and patience of a Saint you might be able to win her back.<P>Then again, if you take a leaf out of after shocks book, and she can make 15 months I reckon you can do it too.<P>Wanna give it a try ?<P>

Ok Husband2You,<P>first here’s the background. I interpret that everytime she talks to you, the OM gives her a hard time. That’s why she whispers to you that he’s there, in the room, when you guys talk on the phone. Ok, so he’s getting nervous because he wants the contact with you broken - obviously - but he doesn’t want to push it. If he does, then he knows he may loose her and she’s told him straight that she won’t break the contact with you. She’s confirmed this to you in the email. I mean, this guy must be in the same kinda hell you’re in – just think about it. She's also said that she may need to rethink her life again which could mean that this guy is causing her so much grief that she's loosing interest.<P>You have to remember that at this point in time she wants your friendship – it sounds like she doesn’t want more than this – but she’s said she wants it for life. Her words. She’s also missing the boys (I take it that the boys are yours together, am I right ?) And this is your ace card.<P>So, big swallow here, you’ve got a choice to make. You accept her as a friend – for the moment anyway – or you walk. If you accept her as a friend you’ve gotta mean it – you can’t push it further than this and you need to put all your needs to one side - but long term, this will be your way back, if there is one, into the relationship. If you decide to walk, then walk with dignity.<P>Now, if you accept the friendship - tell her this - and then you need to cause the OM to LB as much as possible. I think this will be easy. In parallel you need to show her what a great and caring Dad you are. The way you do this, is you plan time with your boys. Go do something with them and make sure it’s fun. Let her know where you are, what you’re doing and that you guys are having loads of fun and that it would be nice if she were there too. <P>After the first couple of times of doing this, casually invite her. Let her know where you’re going and that it’s fine if she just turns up. If she has a chance to see her boys, she’ll make the time. When she’s with you, just be affectionate and show her how good you are. Tell her things like ‘hey, it’s great to see you‘ and ‘my, you’re looking great‘. Skip the I love you bits – she won’t be ready for that.<P>When the OM gets to know that she’s with you, he’ll blow his stack. He’ll be so nervous and so demanding that after a couple of times, he’ll say something like, it’s me or him - you choose. She’ll have to dump him because she won’t let your friendship go. She’s said that already. But what you do is you give her space. When she’s with you and the boys, it has to be fun, calm and without any demands. <P>She has to feel that you’re her harbour and the OM is her storm. You have to work at being somebody who understands her. If I were you, reverse the roles in your head. Pretend that you're the OM and then do everything that an OM would do. Play their game and do it to perfection. If you need tips on how to do that, I'm sure we'll find enough support and ideas in here. <P>Good luck my friend.<P><BR>

Damn good plan Freddy!!<P>I have to agree with the being friends part...you are meeting her EN that she is expressing to you is important!! And I can tell you from experience, giving her that space to sit back and watch you without hearing *I love you* 170 times in a day, can be very attractive to her. It lets her see you in a different light...like "Wow, theres that man I fell in love with!"<P>And like Freddy said, if you end up having to walk, you walk with dignity!<P>Very good plan Freddy!!<P>*Go confidently in the direction of your dreams.*<P>Trueheart

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Freddy:<BR><B>Ok Husband2You,<P>She has to feel that you’re her harbour and the OM is her storm. You have to work at being somebody who understands her. If I were you, reverse the roles in your head. Pretend that you're the OM and then do everything that an OM would do. Play their game and do it to perfection. If you need tips on how to do that, I'm sure we'll find enough support and ideas in here. <P>Good luck my friend.<P></B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Freddy.......you are one <B>SLIIIIIICK</B> dude. Great play by play.....and it seems very workable. <P><P>------------------<BR><B>Time heals all wounds as long as you DON'T pick at them!</B>

Wow! Ya didn't even need me .<P>I think that's plan A in a nutshell. We swallow a lot of our wants and needs and meet the EN's of our mate.<P>We become their port in the storm...the safe place to be...AND WE FIX OURSELVES AT THE SAME TIME...so that the changes we make are permanent...<P>I don't know if you followed lostva's posts...but that's what it seemed she was able to do...write lots of letters to her H and just be there, consistent, his friend, loving him...all the while he was living with OW and not in contact with her...<P>Not making demands, not wanting anything from them, just being their listening...much like the OW/OM did in the beginning...<P>Cali<P>------------------<BR><I>Live Impeccably In Your Word.<BR>Don't Take Anything Personally.<BR>Make No Assumptions.<BR>Do Your Best Always. </I>

Cali...<P>Just checking on you since you are here...you ok lady???<P>

Too awesome of a plan Freddy, if I give you my situation will you write me a plan too? <P>Good luck to you, H2Y---You got some awesome advice, I wish my situation was as easy for others to read, let alone me.<P>D

Day.. my situation is anything but easy.. I don't know your situation very well, and I'm sure we are probably in the same boat.. <P>I've been here off and on since March 1999 and there is so much for any of us to comprehend, explain or wish away. <P>I think that we just take the present.. with the really important information that make a difference in the end and make our daily decisions that way.<P> <P>Freddy, Trueheart and Cali.. I'm getting ready to post a letter that I am thinking about sending to set the groundwork for this.<P>------------------<BR>Husband2You<BR>*****<BR>Don't make me promises <BR>Baby you never did know how to keep them well <BR>I've had the rest of you <BR>Now I want the best of you <BR>It's time for show and tell<P>'All or Nothing' © 2001 O-Town