Greetings,<P>….OP has nothing to do with you and me….<P>I've recently read a lot of posts where WS have told their BS this line. Although it's been several months since I've heard that one myself, it still pains me to see it in the other posts here. I would like to share with you a few thoughts on that particular subject as it related to the difficulties in my marriage. A warning to all righteous Mbers, this post contains observations and opinions that fall far away from the SAA tree.<P><BR>Quick recap…my wife was WS for at least a year with a mutual co-worker. I was removed from the company as the OM was #2 and was #4 in the power structure so he could pursue my wife. After 6 months I quit the denial thing and would not accept any thing but the truth from the wife (d-day). Only got worse over the next 3 months. Wife insisted on Divorce, but would not file. Her relationship required her to travel to see OM in the name of business since they lived 1000 miles apart. As she spent more and more time on the road (4-5 nights a week), I raised our children (4&6). All along I had been doing a Plan A and been under S. Harley's counsel. It was about this time that wife became plain vicious towards me and I presented her with the Plan B letter. She laughed at it and refused to comply or discuss it in any way and left town. Upon her return she added a new line to her performance "I'm not ever leaving the OM or ever coming back to you as my husband, I only stuck around this long hoping that we could have a nice divorce. Look let's just be roommates when I'm in town and you need to go out and find someone else to make you happy." Initially I was in shock, but once you start hearing that kinda thing a few times a week it starts to sink in. So upon three months of the latter type of an attitude, I reasoned that what I had been doing was not working, and quite frankly making me more miserable….Maybe I should try it her way" Not necessarily right by my way of thinking but what was it going to do to our relationship? Make it worse?<BR>So I had my attorney start the paperwork, told her I was done working on our marriage, I'll try it her way, completely and totally left her alone and started dating. BTW - completely and totally leaving her alone only amounted to phone calls and doing her laundry at that point.<P>It's all out here in detail if you search on my ID.<P><BR>What I find amazing about the line "it's not about the OP its about you and me" is the complete one sided view of it my wife (& other I've read about) used to have of it. She used the line from d-day on and seldom missed an opportunity to use it in a marital discussion. Back in my plan A days I used to ignore it or try to reason with her on the general absurdity of the statement with some of the following counter points.<P>1. How can you tell me that your relationship with the OM has nothing to do with us when you can see the pain and agony it has brought me? Do you think that I would be standing in a better place emotionally to work on our marriage if he were not in the picture?<BR>2. It may not make a difference to you but it does to me. Does that matter to you?<P>The answer was either "NO!!" or "I don't know" followed by leaving town to hang out with the OM.<P>Funny thing happened when I gave up and started running around. After a few weeks of not really hearing from her, she started calling me at night while she was traveling. I gave her the same respect she used to give me during these calls, no more than 5 minutes and unless you ask me directly what I'm doing, I'm not telling and a general tone of hurry up and get off the phone, I'm busy. (ya right at 1 am). After a little more of that type of thing all of the sudden something else happened, that took me by total surprise. She called one night that she was supposed to be flying back to tell me that bad weather prevented her from getting on the flight and it would be at least the following day before her return. I'd heard this excuse many times before and really didn’t care except for the fact that I could have been out screwing around that night and I hate being lied to in such a way that you think I'm stupid. Airport radar and schedules are published on the WWW in near real time for most airports. I laughed it off and found one of my babysitters who was willing to show up at 9:30 PM so I could go hang out with my latest girlfriend. Needless to say the wife showed up the next day pissed to the gills at me because she really missed her flight to go to the OM's home town and break it off (in a hotel room of course. I guess the cruise lines were all booked). According to her it was my fault, I made her do it, she didn’t do it to come back to me and became meaner than ever before. I just asked why do anything more for me than kind things you have already done. Then letting her know that she and the OM were meant for each other and I'd love to see them together (AKA her out of our house). She continued to work with him and have an EA.<P>During the course of the next few weeks, I wondered if the wife was starting to want to work on our marriage. I had a couple discussions on a no-contact policy with her that once again brought about the "the OP has nothing to do with us" but now I got to reverse the tables by stating "if that's the case then me sleeping with other women shouldn't affect our so call marriage either. I like that philosophy and think I'm beginning to understand it as well as you do" See, she and I never discussed my dating and I kept it somewhat discrete by not letting my kids or babysitters know what's going on. Kinda a no ask no tell type of thing.<P>Well that discussion about understanding her philosophy did more for her than all the MB stuff had ever done. Her EA continued on for another 5 or 6 months. I quit running around after about 6 - 8 weeks total and began to try again. After her EA had ended I confessed my wrong doings and set us back to square one again. <P>I have a few points for all of you to consider within this story. <P>1st off to all WS's out here. Think about what it must feel like to be on the receiving end of your words and actions. What would it feel like to have your BS sharing a bed with someone else while telling you it has nothing to do with them? Maybe even one of your closest friends. Trust me if you've been a WS for a awhile, your BS is potentially a phone call or two away from making that situation a reality, if they so choose. Because there is a good chance people who know both of you are watching and waiting all the while thinking that the BS deserves so much more than you right now. We the BS's of the world respond very well to any kind of sympathy. So really try to wear the BS shoes for a while. It will be difficult because it will hurt like hell, but try anyway.<P>2nd to all MB zealots. MB is only one way to correct a marriage. One of the better ways in my book, but not the only. Several books and philosophies exist and we should not chastise people here for not being a complete believers or straying from the absolute principles. Just like not all infections can be treated with the same antibiotic, doctors normally prescribe a general antibiotic that has the least side effect. When the infection doesn't respond then they progressively move towards stronger and more dangerous options, but when the life of the patient is on the line, what difference does it make if you damage their liver or kidneys in the process? I truly wished that my wife had responded to the more loving MB approach of reconciliation, unfortunately she did not and the proverbial slap up side the head seems to have had the greatest effect on her.<P>3rd to all BSs that are considering what I have done. Think twice then think again. I still carry tremendous regrets that I cheated, broke my vows, and lost faith in myself. It is even more painful than being cheated on because it was my decision to throw away my integrity. The temporary high from knowing someone really wants you and the ego validation is not worth it.<P><BR>Once again thanks for letting me write and I look forward to any of your opinions. <BR><p>[This message has been edited by Hi Infidelity (edited July 25, 2001).]

Hi,<P>Wow. So are you and your W in recovery? I can't remember the details. <P>Sounds like a tough version of tough love and a bit of regrets mixed in. For me it was almost to that point. I had thought about seeing others but my personal beliefs prevent that until I am morally and legally free (not in a self righteous way, that is just my personal choice). Yet it did not prevent my heart from wanting to find someone who would treat me better. The funny thing is that there are others who can fulfill our needs that way. Not to be an OP or WS but our WS's are not the only fish in the sea. Yet for some crazy reason (love or what?) we try and try again. <P>Thanks for your story. It was helpful to say the least and gave some food for thought. <P>L.<BR>

Hi Infidelity - Rick37 and I have frequently discussed (can't remember if we posted about it) that people were recovering from infidelity LONG before the MB principles were developed and TODAY, couples are recovering from infidelity who have never heard of Plan A/B.<P>I appreciate your story. I heard the "nothing to do with OM" line very frequently. <P>Absent dating around, I'm trying similar things now in my Plan B from the standpoint of presenting a less agreeable, take it or leave it posture to my wife. In truth, I don't have to fake much.<P>I really agree with the "why not" approach of increasing the dosage when nothing else is working, but I also really agree with the MB logic that these affairs are almost certain to end. For me, the hard part is finding the balance.<P>Thanks for taking the time to share your thoughts.<P>WAT

I will probably get some folks mad at me, as this does not fall in line with MB principals. You say the OM was high up in the company, and had you removed from the company to pursue your W? If that is correct, I would have seen a good attorney, and I would now own a large piece of the company! That is a LB of course, but I'm not into reconciliation anymore...

Orchid - Yea I know what you mean about those personal beliefs; I used to have them too. That’s where the regrets come in. I always knew what I stood for and never faltered in my beliefs until that time. The only saving grace that I can find for myself is I lasted longer and tried harder than most other folks I have ever known and my children are still oblivious to the things that have happened to their mommy & daddy.<P><BR>WAT - I also knew it would end. I just wasn't sure what would be left of me when it did or what I might have become after rotting any more within that environment.<P>SnooperHubby - Would have been a real tough case to prove. My employment was via contract from the buyout of my company and the contract was even extended once. So given that position, I really didn’t have the same rights any ole employee and at the time to stir the pot would have pushed the wife further away. Any lawsuits from this event would be best coming from my wife. The courts are a little more sympathetic to women than men when it comes to these employment situations.<BR>

Hi HiInfidelity,<P>read your post and just wanted to let you know that you made some tough decisions. I don't blame you for dating - it's real hard going it alone. Everybody needs affection. Don't be too hard on yourself.<P>I made a decision for myself that I won't get into another relationship while this one is going on. The temptation is there - no kidding. But I decided, I break this one off first before I go anywhere else. I'm also thinking that at this stage, if I do Plan B, I don't want any women in my life for a while anyways. <P>That means None. Nada. Zilch. Zero. Nothing. I want peace.

Freddy,<P> You brought a smile to my face by reminding of the days when I too decided to renounce all women. Nope don’t need em, don’t want em, never understand em (LOL). Then my friends started razzing me about going to bat for the "other" team. Down here in FLA. there's allot of switch hitters so to speak and this topic amused my friends and I for several days if not weeks.<P>Thanks <BR>

I won't bash you either. I am sorry you are feeling bad about what you did, but I get it. I actually think what you did is the counterintuitive stuff.... and lets face it, they (ws"s) are neither rational or intuitive.<P>I heard the same line... and agreed. Because this is more about my H than anything. (won't bore you with the details). I had more of a problem with the OW. She thinks this is about her and has been more of the one to cause the damage... mostly to my H's respect in the community and in our kid's lives. <P>Don't get me wrong. I love my H. I am no longer in love with him, but I'm not that naive to think that there is someone out there who is better for me. I realize the grass is not greener on the other side. It's just different grass. <P>

Greetings,<P> My wife read this post last night when I left it on the computer and was somewhat upset at what it said. I have to agree with her first complaint that it would appear that I had multiple girlfriends, when in fact I dated about 1/2 dozen women but only slept with one. I would guess she is suffering from the same thing most BS are…Always having the question of "Do I really know the truth?" or "Am I being played the fool?" I can understand and sympathize. I still have pangs of those feelings too.<P> She also told me that my posts hold a lot of anger and that’s why she has never actively logged on to read them. Well anger seems to be a strong word for how I feel sometimes, but I could see where she is coming from. I know that I sometime turn to writing here when I feel out of sorts with her and I know I still hold on to some cynical type of feelings about the whole thing. It would seem much easier to bury those feelings long term if she could approach me once in a while with an attitude along the lines of "I wish I could erase the past". We all know that can’t happen but a remorseful attitude such as that can make the past seem like mere shadows when looking at the future.<P> It's probably worth mentioning that she disagrees with other facts in my post but can understand that most of those things are based on personal views and interpretation.<P> Probably just luck of the draw that she has never read any of my posts in threads like Marissa's "How do you forgive yourself" or Orchid's "The things we do for love" <P> So for now and maybe ever, I'll be singing off this sight as it appears to cause more bad than good around my house. Maybe that might help us to start talking to one another about these things.<P>I wish you all luck in your quest for happiness.<BR>

HF,<P>If this post opened the door to communications, then it is not all bad. I sincerely hope she comes to her senses and realizes what she means to you!! Best of luck!!<P>*Go confidently in the direction of your dreams.*<P>Trueheart