I emailed my H to coordinate a date/time for him to P/U his belongings. This is the last reason he and I will ever have to be in any sort of contact again. <P>This is the third attempt at delivery. In the past two unsuccessful attempts (negated by H) it was made clear by me (in a non-LB way) he would not be coming to my/our home. I am in Plan B. We will use a mutual's friends home for P/U location. And I will not be there.<P>So in this last email volley he again says he wants to come over. Please see email threads:<P>************************************<BR>From me to H:<BR>Please offer reasonable date(s) in which you will be able to pick up your belongings. Location will be forthcoming.<P>From H to me:<BR>Dear Joanne,<BR>I am leaving for 2 weeks training this Saturday. I will be returning August 11. I can come and get my belongings this evening (July 25) after 7:00 pm or Thursday after 7:00 pm at our home.<P>Thanks,<BR>Steve <P>**********************<P>Okay Plan Bers ... how do I respond to this. When it comes to my H I am so weak, I crumble. He has such an affect on me, my emotions simply take over. I cannot see him. If I do, I'll be on this board 24/7 trying to recover. And just so you know, he knows exactly what to say to me, he'll say things about how we built our wonderful home and about our lives .... how he still loves me and misses me. I just don't want him at the house, whether I am there or not.<P>Gosh, I sound like a wuss.<P>Jo<P><BR><P>------------------<BR>"Remain flexible like a reed, as opposed to an oak which can snap in the wind"

A couple of options that might be worth considering.<P><BR>1) Tell him that time is inconvenient and it will have to wait till he gets back. Take all of his belongings to a storage unit or the new PODS things. Then simply mail him the key and location.<BR>2) Have all his stuff collected by your front door and have a friends or family be there to let him in while you're somewhere else.<P>I'd opt for #1, because all the effort it will take to do #2 will probably be for not when he doesn't show on time or wants to just grab one or two things for the trip and get then rest later. Then your house will be in shambles and you'll have to go through it all again. Also #1 lets you put some finality to the issue.<P><p>[This message has been edited by Hi Infidelity (edited July 25, 2001).]

Jo - do you have all the stuff ready at the "neutral" location?<P>If so, can you reply simply, "Steve, your belongings are already located at <location>. You may pick them up there. Please coordinate with <mutual friend.> As I have explained before, it is just too painful for me to see ot talk to you. Please respect this decision. Jo"<P>Mmmm?<P>WAT

Question for you Jo:<P>If he still loves you and misses you and tells you these things, then why isn't he wanting to work on your marriage? Does he only tell you these things, knowing you'll 'crumble' to make things easier on him?<P>Karen

Hi ...<P>Hi Infidelity ...I like the storage unit thing, very good idea. I may go that route. Thank you.<P>WAT ... I do have all the stuff packed and ready to go. Most of it is Music studio equipment (midi mixer boards, amps, keyboards, guitars, etc.) and studio furniture, so the friends that have offered to store it will only do it for a short term as it takes up so much space. That means Steve has a short window of time to pick it up, once it's there. But the storage idea may help me in that respect.<P>I'm contemplating sending him an email saying it's in a storage place and sending him the key. Adding that I cannot see him because it is just too hurtful. Am I supposed to let him know I'm still a wuss where he's concerned??? You're the best ever WAT .. thanks for the quick response. <P>Well Topie, that is THE question, isn't it. H has been telling me this since the day he left. During seperation but in Plan A, he'd hug me and kiss me and look into my eyes and even moan when he was holding me. Telling me I'm always with him, and he'll never love anyone the way he loves me. Same thing on the phone, tells me how he loves hearing my voice and misses my laugh ... and then he'd turn around and file for D on my Bday ... can you explain it???<P>Yes, I have crumbled in front of him, that's why I went to Plan B, it became tortureous. <P>Topie, how does it make things easier on him if I become emotional? I don't get mean or cross with him, on the contrary, I reciprocate his affection and at times get somewhat weepy. <P>Okay ... I'll compose an email to him, and if it's okay, I'll post it here for an MB critique.<P>Thanks so much!<P>Jo<p>[This message has been edited by Resilient (edited July 25, 2001).]

{{{Jo}}}}<P>I agree with the storage unit idea. The less chance for confrontation, the better for you! (and this is about you, whether you know it or not) I would not tell him how hurtful it is to see him, or he will know how emotional you are. He may know it anyway, but dont feed his ego. I would simply tell him where he can pick up his things and let him know the location of the key. I would leave it somewhere neutral, such as the office of the storage unit. If you leave it with a friend/family member, he will only engage them for information about you...were you upset, crying etc, and give him a reason to call you. <P>Be strong, lady!! We are behind you 110%. <P>*Go confidently in the direction of your dreams.*<P>Trueheart

Resilient<P> Do they have PODS available in your area? Check out <A HREF="http://www.putitinapod.com/" TARGET=_blank>http://www.putitinapod.com/</A> Bringing the storage unit to your house makes it easier for everyone.<BR>

Hi Jo,<P>Storage unit is a good idea. How about putting a personal piece that meant something to the both of you? You know in a place he would see it? Next to a favorite equipment? If you want to leave a note to further explain why you are doing this you could leave this for something he can remember. <P>You know even though he has left you, it doesn't sound like his heart has left you. OW stole his body, but his heart may not be for sale. Jo, you are one beautiful lady. In his heart and mind, he knows this and may not feel worthy. <P>You know my H feels the same way. That may be where you can put your thoughts and feelings. Sounds like he cares for you but knows that he has put too much hurt into you and can't bear doing more neither can he guarantee he will not do it again. <P>How I feel for you. Yet you are the one with grace, dignity, beauty and power. Don't forget that. You are feeling weak and vulnerable now. Is it safe to let him know that? I did. I told H that I was scared (only during the discussion time, not the no contact time). I let him see me vulnerable. Was I sharing my pain? Yes. Was I sorry I did that? No. <P>Just my 2 cents. I will be here for you. You can call me anytime. I have more stories to make you laugh. <P>Take Care, <P>L.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Resilient:<BR><B>Hi ...<P>Topie, how does it make things easier on him if I become emotional? I don't get mean or cross with him, on the contrary, I reciprocate his affection and at times get somewhat weepy. <P>.]</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>If you crumble in front of him, and he knows it, basically his wish is your command. It makes it easier on him if you don't put up a fight.<P>With that in mind, plan B must have been a HUGE step for you. I commend you on your strength. Keep it up. And I too really like the storage unit idea. Just make sure he gets footed with the bill (grin).<P>Karen<P><BR>

Awww geez...we need an Orchid thread with funny stories now too!! <P>How you doin O????<P>Jo,<P>What Orchid says is very true. I, somehow, just dont see this as final. Call it *gut instinct*, but I am just not sure. He is not acting like a man that has totally given up.<P>Trueheart

I, too, like the storage unit idea.<P>Although trueheart has a good reason for NOT saying you're too hurt, I have to stand by my recommended response you should make. My reason: Steve says so. He emphasized this to me recently for my Plan B. ANYTIME you need a reason to avoid contact, this should be it because it's true. Otherwise, what's the reason?<P>WAT

OOPS...Sorry WAT...didnt know that, but now that you say it that way, makes sense to me. I never had to go that route, so I didnt mean to give misinformation.<BR>My apologies!!

trueheart - no worries (Taz taught me to say that). Your logic was intuitive, but this is not necessarily an intuitive process. In many ways, it's counterintuitive.<P>WAT

My H just called me. Didn't come thru on my caller ID here at work so I picked up. We talked for nearly an hour. We talked about so many things ... I'll share what I feel is relevant. <P>He said he wishes I would talk with him, but understands how it's hurtful. I said "it is hurtful because he keeps telling me he loves me and misses me, yet he is with someone else and Divorced me". (JEEEEEEZ!) He said he doesn't know what I imagine but he's not all that happy. Said he has nightmares about me and misses me. (I didn't say this, but I have nightmares also)<P>He told me something interesting, it was about he and OW and how things are with them. He said he doesn't love anything like he use to, not how he loved me. Not how we loved one another. I listened and cried a little.<P>I told him I was extremely hurt for a while because of him filing on my BDay and attempting to serve me on Christmas eve day, said he had no idea that's what happened. Said he didn't file on my Bday, that's just when they finally got the papers, and as far as being served, he had thought they would have done it in early Dec. He said he was very sorry. I believe him and now I'm relieved. I thought he hated me, or OW made him do it.<P>He said he felt he had to D because he had done so many bad things, and that I must know he loves me, because he didn't go after anything in the D (my Stock, 401K, house, furniture, etc), he simply asked for his belongings.<P>We worked out the logistics to pick up his belongings (Storage Unit after his return - Thank you Hi Infidelity!!! ) and before we hung up he asked if he could call me, and I he. <P>Now guys .. this is where I didn't know if what I said is right or not.<P>I told him that he is with someone else, and until he is on his own, he better not call me. Said he understood, but didn't agree. And of course at the end of the convo I got the "I love you, J".<P>I don't know if this man is manipulating me or not, I'm too deep in it and I can't see the forest for the trees. I'm too involved, so someone else is gonna have to give me their interpretation.<P>What drama, eh .....<P>Jo<P><BR>[This message has been edited by Resilient (edited July 25, 2001).]<p>[This message has been edited by Resilient (edited July 25, 2001).]

Hey Jo, I'd have to agree with the others who say put it in a storage bin and have him retrieve his "stuff" there. <P>Option #1 seems to just let him continue to let his "stuff" at "your" home. And that allows him access to you.<P>I say that because I also have all of my H's "stuff". I've thought about putting it in a storage bin also, but there is just too much, and I am not moving it. When I move (if I ever sell this house, H will have to come and get it.)<P>And my H has done the same thing re: leaving it all here. He put in the D papers that he wanted to come and get his things at a convienient time, but when I suggested it, he asked if it could stay here.<P>But I'm not really in plan B, so don't follow my example. <BR> <BR>I'll also add that whoever said you are the one with the power is correct. I had also been thinking that I am the prisoner...and that H is the one with all the power, but my counselor pointed out to me, that it is actually me who has the "power" (I guess if there is such a thing)... It has been my reactions (or nonreactions depending on how you look at it) that gives me that.<P>There is sooooo much I could have done, or could do.. or said or etc. For me, it has been that fact... that I am in control of me... that has given me the ability to keep from being a "victim". That, and the fact that they don't sing "Amazing Justice", they sing "Amazing Grace".<P>Even though they say that "we" trap them, they are really trapped by themselves. And my cup half full personality will not allow me to give up hope for any of them... Keep praying, because they are the ones who are lost. <P>

Jo,<P>How I hope he is beginning to see the light. Remember our talks? When he is ready to show value to your life, then you can let him back in. Please my dear, be stronger than me. It is so very hard but I know you can do it. <P>You have your life in a much better state than some of us, you have more worth than that dumpy OW whatever. Maybe the scales are beginning to fall off your H's eyes. I hope so. <P>I want to jump up make him come back to you. I want to write to him and let him know what a great wife he has and how much she has been there for him and everyone else. Now is her time. She (you) need to be treated like a queen, a dignified woman with deep respect. Jo, you are that and more. Let him see how many of us are pulling for the both of you to have that happy chance at a good marriage. How that together, maybe the both of you can help others. Am I being selfish? No, I want what will make you happy. <P>Please smile a little smile for me tonight. Sending a cyber hug to you. <P>Take Care,<BR>L.<P><BR>

Jo,<BR>I didn't make it to the 2nd page, I stopped on the first for a 2 cent ?, the D is final? I was married for almost 5 years (no kids) before my present H - when we went through our D, I really could not stand him. I was going to go to court on the day, knowing me, you would have thought I would, and I called my lawyer the day before, and said you go, I'm not going, I don't want to see him again (I'm sure he was there). The gist of this stuff is - did you Plan A and B long enough?<P>I felt like crying on the 1st page - it is crazy when a man during a d/separation tells you they love you, and you two finally got to discussing all of this? You sound like me - jumping to conclusions - could have asked from Jan to now - but I know you were so upset you didn't want to, and look at him, he didn't even ask for the financial stuff in the d. <P>Did you talk to Steve Harley? Anyway, I'm just jumping in here asking all these questions, and you might just have answered them on the 2nd page.<P>You know, girl, there have been people who got married a second time - they realized what they missed. What about his needs? How did you miss meeting them and him yours?<P>Here are lots of hugs for you. (((((((((((((( hugs )))))))))))), I just think love is one of the most wonderful things, and if someone loves you . . . its hard to let it go.<P>I don't have any other super words of wisdom, but you can have my shoulder if you need one. <P>still, aftershock<P>

Jo,<BR>I agree w/Orchid. Your phone call w/your H!! It too sounds to me like he is comming out of the fog a little. I think you did the right thing by telling him you can't talk to him while he is still involved w/someone else. It may take him a while to actually figure out a way to get out of this whole mess (the A and where his head is also, and the hurt he knows he's caused you). Stay strong, but until you're ready (and I don't think you are yet, right?) don't give up hope. Hope does not dissapoint, hope does not dissapoint, hope does not dissapoint!

Jo - OK, a departure from Plan B, but you ended it the right way - no more contact until he gives up OW.<P>He gave a little, now I think you need to get back to a STRICT Plan B - for you. <P>Look what's happened: he's reignited your hopes after the divorce. Should you/would you get back together even if he gives up OW? Only you can determine this, but you shouldn't be jerked around with this possibility until OW is LONG gone. You can control being jerked around with a strict no contact attitude.<P>He's following the expected path. A legal divorce is a totally independent action that has little to do with the course of a temporary romantic relationship.<P>Whatever your future relationship with your XH will be, you're in control. It can eventually be whatever you want it to be, but I think you must now let Plan B work until OW is gone.<P>WAT