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#933916 07/28/01 08:59 PM
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I just discovered today that my WS"s A has been going on much longer than I thought. I thought it turned PA in April but discovered while working on computer today it was PA back in Dec. She went to his house while wife was out of town and did it in front of fire. I have no idea how much before that it was PA but do know it started as a EA. I already knew it was a full blown A but this new info kinda rocked my world. We spent New Years eve with thgis OM and his wife. I attended our sons Basket ball practices and games together. I feel so stupid that they got away with it for so long and I didnt know it. OM's wife still doesn't know. I want to tell her and confront him but that would be a major LB and the fall out could cost both WS and OM their jobs. They are both teachers at same school. On one hand I know it doesn't matter how long its gone on. However I'm even more heartbroke, if thats possible now. I feel totally used and lied to. Its not fair that Im seperated from my WS and kids, our home is up for sale and divorce is pending. He is at home with his wife and 3 kids not a problem in the world. He got away with it. I want revenge but what does that accomplish? For the kids sake I dont want either one of them to loose their jobs. I was even going to coach a ball team with OM that our sons were on. He could look me in the eye and at the same time have PA with my wife. Shame on both of them. Its with a heavy heart and tears in my eyes that I type this. D'day has been 4 months. She says its over w/om but Ive heard this before. It appears she emotionally divorce me some time ago. I want to make it legal. My entire story is layed out on this site. Im still plan a'ing but my hope dimishes a little more each day. I love her and In love with her but i realise you cant make a person feel a certain way. This latest discovery is another nain in the coffin. Why does it hurt so much? Its almost like discovering it all over again. Im not even sure what emotion Im feeling right now. Anger?fear? loss of self-esteem? Desperation? I dont know its confusing. Maybe all of those and then some. any thoughts os guidence woul be appreciated.

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I'm so sorry you found new info. I know you are devastated. Yes, you are probably angry, scared, feel used, hurt, confused... all of these.<P>I'm assuming you've read and considered your other post and the replies. If you are here at MB, you MUST want your marriage to work out somehow. You need to stop the divorce process (you started it right? correct me if I'm wrong). If you will study and implement Plan A, your marriage has a chance of making it, even with the new information you found. When will your W be back from the cruise?<P>You can always divorce later, if it comes down to it. But why not buy some time, try the MB principles, and you'll become a stronger and better person through it?<P>------------------<BR>Faith1<P>"Then Jesus answered, 'Woman, you have great faith! Your request is granted.'"<BR>Matt 15:28

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Austin:<P>If you feel your love waning, etc. now might be a good time to be thinking about Plan B. Not only as a last ditch attempt to salvage your marriage, but as a means to preserve YOU.<P>Yes, the sense of betrayal can be deepened by discovery of intimate portions of the affair. Plan B can help you there as well.<P>The emotions you are feeling are all normal ones. Get counseling help, for yourself and for your marriage. If you have not done so, try Steve and Jennifer about last-ditch stands. They are excellent coaches. Not only in your MB strategy, but also in helping YOU.<P>Telling the OM's wife is a very thorny issue. Not for revenge, certainly, though it is natural to feel that desire. There is a health aspect to all this. What if OM has had more than one affair? What if those OWs had some form of communicable disease?<P>If the OM's W finds out, how does that impact their jobs at the school? People are generally astute: odds are pretty good that someone in the school suspects something anyway. You are protecting both of them for the consequences of bad choices. If that is a repercussion of their actions, some would say, so be it. There is a fine balance here. The OM's wife right to know vs. the major LB that would develop.<P>Sometimes it is a matter of being right and divorced, or preventing the LB. Again, Steve or Jennifer can most assuredly guide you through that treacherous aspect.<P>Set the emotions aside (hard to do, I know) and determine what your objective(s) is/are. Then proceed accordingly.<P>My thoughts and prayers are with you and your family,<BR>Godspeed,<BR>STL

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Austin I feel your pain and I'm truly sorry that you had to find out the way you did. Why can't our WS's be honest? Apparently they all think that by lieing to us that are shielding us from the pain. Cowards! My H, still tells me that he is not having an AE or PA with a woman that he works with. I have phone bills where he has called her home and cell 50x's in 1 month. I know exactly how you feel about telling OM wife. I have tried to contact OW's H but she will not let me speak with him. If there is nothing going on what's the problem we are all adults. I want her to feel the same pain that me and my children are going through. Being the BS really bites! Take care of yourself Austin everyone here cares!<BR>Cybil

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Austin I feel your pain and I'm truly sorry that you had to find out the way you did. Why can't our WS's be honest? Apparently they all think that by lieing to us that are shielding us from the pain. Cowards! My H, still tells me that he is not having an AE or PA with a woman that he works with. I have phone bills where he has called her home and cell 50x's in 1 month. I know exactly how you feel about telling OM wife. I have tried to contact OW's H but she will not let me speak with him. If there is nothing going on what's the problem we are all adults. I want her to feel the same pain that me and my children are going through. Being the BS really bites! Take care of yourself Austin everyone here cares!<BR>Cybil

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I am so sorry to hear of your pain. I think that you would<BR>be doing a good thing if you were to inform the OM's wife.<BR>Don't you feel she has the right to know this information so she can make an informed choice on how she wishes to live her life. Would you not have wanted someone to tell you before you found out? The woman has a right to know about her husband. You are not doing her any favors by withholding this information from her. If the roles were reversed what would you want?

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Autin;<P><BR>Please tell the OM wife already. Do this for evey reason that works for you. But do it now. I have gone through this with my wifes first A and it worked. You must not let him get away with this again with another family. See her in person, she might know that somthing is not right any way. I would want you to do this if I were the OM wife, she has a right to know the damage caused by this. He "OM" deserves to deal with this with his own family. Do It.

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Austin,<P>I'm not sure what the pro's say is best for your marriage as far as telling the OM's W, I do suggest getting their opinion first. I would want to know if it were me, we had a friend staying with us who knew about WS wandering and didn't tell me, some friend. Your situation is different, how important is your marriage right now? You said you want the D legal. Is that what you really want? Or do you want your marriage to survive? You have to know what you want and go for it. We are all in a lot of pain right now and us BS's are definately getting the short end of the stick, in the eye, in the side, in the back, and in the heart, but we are the ones who need to have the resolve to make our marriages work, till death do us part. I know you can hang in there, if thats what you want.<P>my prayers are with you as you make your decision,<BR>knight?

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Austin - does your wife want the divorce?<P>No one here will be surprised to hear this from me: Tell OM's wife. Find my recent thread on GQII, "On informimg the OP's Spouse," to get a broad perspective.<P>A couple of things to consider:<P>1. If your divorce goes to completion, what will your wife do? Probably attempt to break up OM's family? A plausible next step. Everyone loses. The school certainly finds out and their jobs are in jeopardy - or should be.<P>2. If the divorce stops and you two can reconcile, either your W or OM MUST leave their job. Recovery cannot occur with continued contact.<P>So either way, the jobs are already threatened, and the families are already boobytrapped.<P>I know the anger you must feel to realize the OM can be such a slime ball. My wife's OM was a pallbearer in our deceased son's funeral. The human mind is capable of gravity defying gymnastics.<P>Bottom line, this is salvageable. One way to tell OM is to be up front with your wife. Tell her what you know and ask her to tell OM to tell his wife. Otherwise, it WILL happen by some other means.<P>Oh, archive your computer evidence.<P>WAT<P>Please describe your wife's attitude and behavior.<p>[This message has been edited by worthatry (edited July 29, 2001).]

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They return from cruise today. I pick them up at 5pm. You should know this is WS 2nd A in 14yr marriage (that i know about). What is her attitude? She says she doesnt want a divorce. We could stay together for the kids. I asked her if she was I what would she do. Response-leave. I have been plan a for several months all it seemed to do was mo0tivate her to see OM more. I heard her say the only reason she wants me around is for financial reasons. She says the A is over but doesnt want to allow me ant method to check up on her.Refuses to get itemized cell bill, refuses to tell me where she is going says she still wants to be friends w/OM, wants our son to play on OM football and baseball teams. Do I want a divorce? No do I want to reconcile? I think so. Do I want to be married to this person? I dont know any more. Its no good to be in a loveless marriage, where your partner is not there emotionally for you. Who is involved with another man and only wants you around for financial reasons. She cant give me a reason or explaination of anything Ive done wrong. Im not a drunk or drug user. I dont abuse her or my kids, I make a good living. Im a good provider, husband and father. It always comes back to the I love you but Im not in love with you answer. I just hate that response. It doesnt tell you a thing. She also refuses to go to marriage counselor but I have continued to go. She went once and didnt like what he told her. You must stop all contact W/OM. I do go back and forth on telling OM wife and or confronting OM,

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Austin:<P>The "I love you but ..." is a fogese mechanism that serves the WS as a self-justification. Plan A, Plan A, Plan A. Until you feel your love waning. Then Plan B.<P>Previously, I waffled a bit on the "telling the OM's wife" issue. It is a thorny one. However, I know when I was the BS, I would have loved it if someone had told me sooner (than find it out in a more traumatic manner).<P>Here is the deciding factor: right now, OM's wife is in the dark. She may suspect something amiss, but she doesn't <I>know</I>. She is being robbed of her right to make informed choices regarding her life. For me, that (and my human nature) tips the scales toward telling the OM's wife.<P>Godspeed,<BR>STL

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Austin - based on reading stories like yours here for many months, I think it's highly unlikely that the affair is over. That's why she won't go to counseling and why she wants to keep information from you. It's as simple as that.<P>She doesn't know what she wants and you cannot try to use your normal thought processes because they won't work - she's not rational.<P>Since you are acquainted with OM, you might want to consider appealing to him to come clean if you can do it in a non-confrontational manner. This likely won't work, but you can then feel more comfortable going to his wife. You have a lot of options here. One thing is for sure - the status quo will be interupted when you share the information you have, whether it's with your W, OM, OM's W, or with the school.<P>Another thing to consider is getting a fresh perspective from Steve Harley to check on what your counselor is telling you.<P>WAT

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I don't see the confusion here. If your wife wants to continue seeing other men and having affairs, wants to stay married to you only for financial reasons, doesn't want to work on the marriage, does'nt care about rebuilding trust, does not care about fulfilling your ENs, and shows no respect for you what exactly are you left with to make a marriage.

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Max, thats my point. Ive done the plan A thing till I couldnt do it any more. You see all the people who tell me not to divorce. She wanted it I just filed it (after I found out she ran up $1700 in credit card debt in one week). I believe she emotionally divorced me months ago. Its weird but in her own strange way I know she loves me-like a brother-and you dont have EA and PA with your sibblings. Im the father of our kids so she cares about me for their sake. But i agree Im cant save my marriage myself, NO, Im not gonna be an a** to her not my style. I wish I could but Im too nice a person. But, I need to protect myself emotionally from further heartbreak and pain from her.

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<B>Ive done the plan A thing till I couldnt do it any more.<P>She wanted it I just filed it.<P>I need to protect myself emotionally from further heartbreak and pain from her. </B><BR>Which is why Plan B was devised.<P><B>NO, Im not gonna be an a** to her not my style. I wish I could but Im too nice a person. </B><BR>She is gonna turn around later and tell you that you ARE an a$$ because YOU divorced her! She isn't gonna thank you for it. She'll probably say, "I said that because I wanted to see how much you wanted to stay married."<P>The only time you should file for divorce is if YOU want a divorce.

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Austin - don't get sucked into max's logic. It makes sense on the surface, that's because it's shallow. This logic has as it's premise the false assumption that your wife, like all the other WSs, are thinking rationally, but acting irrationally.<P>WAT

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Austin I would suggest you read Worthatry posts and see whether his approaches worked to save his marriage. I do not wish to be disrespectful to him and his situation but the problem with people like him is that they are also in a fog. Reality is starring them in the face and they don't want to accept it and deal with it. Instead they continue on an emotional rollercoaster ride with no end in sight until one or the other spouse calls it quits. In his case, his wife has filed for divorce. The problem that I see with the approach advocated by Dr.Harley (who I respect but disagree with) is that he recommends the same approach ( Plan A and then B) irregardless of what the history and circumstances are in that relationship. In other words, one pill for all diseases. There is no assessment as to what kind of condition was the marriage in prior to the affair? Was there verbal and/or physical abuse? Was there a alcohol or drug abuse? Does the spouse have good reason to want to get rid of the marriage partner? How many affairs have there been? How long did the past affairs last? How many times was the betrayers married? Did the betrayer commit adultery or get cheated on in previous marriages? Did the betrayed also commit adultery in the past? What kind of religious beliefs does the betrayer have? What is the history of the betrayer before marriage? Was she/he sexually active before marriage? What kind of family does the betrayer come from? Were they a close family? Was there a history of adultery with her parents? As one can see from the questions the reason for affairs and human behaviour can be very complex but in all this one needs to recognize that affairs are destructive and should be considered emotional abuse if not physical as it probably affects the health of those betrayed. I do not believe one should stay in a marriage in which there is any kind of abuse including alcohol or substance abuse, verbal or physical abuse, and adultery. <p>[This message has been edited by max (edited July 29, 2001).]

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I agree Max I would say its Emotional Abuse for sure. I guess you could consider it physical abuse because of the pain and fact that it does affect you physically, weight loss, inability to sleep etc. As to mine ans W/s there was no abuse of any kind by either party thru the entire 14 yr marriage. By the way they got back from cruise last night. I picked them up at airport and took them home. I left. You know it really hurts to see my w/s. I cant stop thing about how much I love her, what she did to me and where we are going.

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Austin, I am in the same delima whether to tell the OM's Wife or not. I have counseled with Steve, my personal counselor and a friend of the family. Steve and my counselor both said do not tell the W right now b/c my W would see it as manipulation and control and that is her so called problem with me. However the friend of the family said to tell the OM's W b/c more than likely just like WAT said the A is proabably stil going on. As long as there is still secrecy in my case and yours the OM's wife, then we must assume the A is still ongoing. This is where is gets complicated. Do we tell or not? I've thought about getting a close friend maybe a female to call his wife and say something like, "I thought you might want to know that there is a good chance that your husband is having an affair or will have an affair with admisitrative person at work." No names mentioned, just an annoymous call. This puts extra pressure on him to fix things (or not) at home and breaks the secrecy. The problem is that does this happen now or later. If my wife wants a D then it will most definetly happen, however if she wants to reconcile I wil discuss with her. This is so tough and I've been through all senarios. <P>What does everyone think about the annoymous call from a friend approach? Would my W figure that one out b/c I am the only one with a motive? <P>GC

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Austin,<P>Is the person your W has become a stranger to you, your family and friends? Doing things out of character? Is still unwilling to have total honesty, loyalty and respect for you and your family? To you feel unsure of her statements and do they leave you confused? <P>If you answer yes to the above statements and take your wife back in this condition, your reconciliation stands a greater chance of failure and may even rekindle the A. That is what happened in my case. You can search on out my story. It is a long one and still inprocess. Go figure this. WS is out there living with the OW who he just said yesterday that he cant wait to get the 'h3ll out of her place'. But where is he? Not in a hotel (no money), not with his mom (thinks he is too good to stay there - she is a bit of a messy housekeeper), etc. <P>The point here is that we (the BS) want to belive 100% what they say when they say something good to us, yet we do not know how nor want to belive any 0% of what they say when their words and actions hurt us. <P>Reasonably the above percentages can't be right, it is not logical for them to be 100% right in their positive words to us and 0% in their negative. So we need to adjust to an appropriate percentage and look for the truth. It will be hard to find because they talk with with such babble. <P>Austin, you may be new here but before we uncovered the school that teaches these our spouses to become Ws's. It is a correspondence school. The courses can be taken over the phone, from an acquaitance/workmate/neighbor and especially over the internet. The teachers are all over. It does not take long to get a degree in Fogese and then some in turn teach others. LOL!!!! (This paragraph was just a joke to lighten you up a bit and get you to smile. Sorry if it did not.)<P>My point is that to help you get to the proper way to view your W would be to talk to the Steve, Jennifer or your counselor. They can help clear away some of the feelings you are trying to input into what your W is saying vs what she is really saying and doing. You must realize that she may not even be in full control of her thoughts but there is not much you can do at this point but be patient, love her from a distance (by taking care of yourself and your children) and be a friend for now. That is plan A. <BR>Plan B is a bit more agressive but is designed to protect the love for you and focuses more on preserving you and your family. That is why it is important to get input from those who have dealt with situations like we are in. <P>Are we the experts? No. We may be in similar situations at different levels. It is often easier to see the truth when the feelings are not ours. Since many of us are going through the same things, understand that our perception may be a bit more keen. Dave (WAT) and others have given you some valuable points to consider. Take that info and go talk to your counselor. <P>Ask God for a clear mind and a calm heart. You can get through this. You will eventually reach a point of tolerance and know what you need to do. Until you reach that level in your heart and mind, you will be hurting yourself the longer you waffle with your W. Find you place of comfort/tolerance, plant yourself down there firmly (with the help of your supporters,couselors,research,etc.) and stay there. Think clearly. It will help you keep your santity. When you are no longer able to adhear to plan A's requirements, then go to plan B. Prepare for plan B mentally as an alternative. Then if you should need to execute it, you will be better prepared. <P>Take care,<BR>L.<BR> <BR>

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