God only knows that if I hadnt found this place i would never have understood WHY/WHAT/HOW's of affairs, healing, rebuilding.<P>i cant thank MB enough for the help that i have received. I made a few friends but ofcourse being the Betrayer, i didnt find many.....go figure. anyhow, MY story sucks and wish i would have found this place BEFORE i headed down the primrose path to hell. <P>to make a long, long....long long.....long story kinda just LONG, here it goes.<P>i had an affair with OM for about 2 yrs off and on. It started in August of 1998, ended in Feb. 1999... resumed again in Dec of 1999 and continued until May of 2000, all contact totally stopped in November of 2000.<P>what i learned in that time was not only was my marraige failing terribly, but I as a person was a wreck. I was emotionally unstable (due to some abuse not only as a child, from my parents but terrible abuse from my spouse). I was not able to choose the color of my underwear on any given day BEFORE the affair (and they were all white )ha!<P> my marriage was filled with abuse. although today i look back and wonder why i didnt look else where sooner. i know that sounds horrid but my marraige was horrid. i had a h usband who accused me from the start of having other boyfriends (which i found out was something his father usedt o do and still does to his mother). i had a husband who if he had a bad day came home to degrad me, yell at me, rant and rave at me about his life failings. TODAY he says it was because he blamed all his problems on me because he felt that iw as a loser( oh joy). by the time i was 22 i had five kids all under the age of 5. i had become over weight, depressed, unhappy, and suicidal.<P>my usual humor was ofcourse happy. i was a go lucky girl, happy with life, a zest for life, but withthe abuse, she was killed and a new unhappy, strugn out, depressed woman replaced her.<P>after 8 yrs of this a man came inot my life that ofcoruse made my husband look like an [censored]. in all aspects. truth of it remains that OM was a womanizer who stole my heart and then refused to give it back. i had to replace all i had lost with new and better.<P>unfortuetly because of my current mind state, the affair thta i startedt o have (emotionally) uplifted me so much that i couldnt decide even IF i should wear underwear?? rofl!! hahaa...sorry, my mind was so screwd.<P>one day after a particularly violent verbal attack, i made the decision to not OBEY my MARRIAGE VOWS. the affair began.<P>now 3 yrs later, i live in a bed that i have made. there is no longer the verbal abuse but there is still a control issue and a refusal to accept HIS part in the affair. It was MY idea, MY actions, MY decisions. NOT HIS.<P>so we go to wichita this past weekend. we spent some tiem talking because im frustrated with the NON progress the NON marriage building of our marraige. I discovered that Im capable of dealing with a relationshp but HE isnt. HE hasnt forgiven NOR forgotten, his exact words were; 'IF I EVER SEE THAT SOB THEN I AM GOING TO KILL THE [censored] FOR ALL THAT HE PUT MYFAMILY THROUGH." where do i fit in? it certainly took 2 to tango. the anger i still see him have is appalling. he pushes me away, and yet wants to pull me close. <P>I invited him to come to marriage builders and seek some advice, to see that there are sooo many betrayed that could give him some adice and help him, but he doesnt want to. I have printed over and over responses and things for him. i bought many books from the Harleys and from others too. <P>can i blame him? nope. would i trust me after that kind of history? nOPE. but at some point and time things need to move on. im not saying divorce im not saying to stick together. what i am saying is when a relationship isnt growing, it is dying. and my marriage is dying. and im so sorry for what i did, but i cant say i am sorry forever and ever. <P>there is an admitted communication problem but i am seeing an old him come through. anything i say is wrong, anything i do is selfish. im burned out with trying yet i stay because it was me who ulimately destroyed the marraige.<P>im a lonely soul who was lonely before the affair and am still lonely. NO not many emotional needs are being met right now, although i try. He has all but pulled totally away. <P>THE truth is, marraige couseling should be needed after the marriage is dead, it should be required BEFORE. to let others kno wthat "lust" doesnt last forever, and marraige does get old unless you make it young forever. <P>one thing i can honestly say is that we are good friends. as long as i behave and do as he wishes. no challenging the boundaries such as going to store with out an escort.<P>ok...enough....geting to be a smart A**.<P>If only i knew yesterday, what i know today.......<P><BR>mercy

Mercy:<P>The underlying question is then this: does your love for your husband outweigh the negative impact of his need to control and dominate, and his refusal to meet your emotional needs?<P>If the answer is yes, then you will have a marriage, as you said, that is dying a slow lingering death.<P>If the answer is no (which I suspect it is) <I>and</I> if he continues to refuse to work on the marriage using MB principles, then the choice is yours: stay and be miserable, or leave the "honorable" way, via divorce.<P>Neither option is a pleasant one, but you have to do what is best for your physical and emotional health.<P>Godspeed,<BR>STL

saltlight.... i cant say that it does. all it is doing to me is making me bitter. i try i really try.<P>for example there was in issue withour boy yesteday with my mom. he was rude and disrespectful and my mom smacked him in the mouth for it. i agreed that it was ok. but my husband was pissed and i wouldnt discuss it while we were both exhausted from work (14 hour day for both of us)( i only work one day a week) and i told him that i didnt want to discuss this while we were tired that we could talke about it another time. he wasnt respectful of my wishes and continuted to badger me. i didnt watnt a fight. <P>anyway.... ty<P>

Mercy,<BR>Hi, I'm glad to see you post, even if it isn't a happy one.<P>It really does take a lot to heal an affair.<P>Even once that hurt is heal, sometimes the underlying problems of the marriage that led to the decison of the affair are still there. You are lonely. Your H doesn't treat you with respect. Those problems were there, and they didn't go away through the affair, and are probably worse because of it.<P>Is counseling an option?<P>With your 5 kids...my heart just goes out to you.<P>You wrote that your H said: 'IF I EVER SEE THAT SOB THEN I AM GOING TO KILL THE [censored] FOR ALL THAT HE PUT MYFAMILY THROUGH." where do i fit in? it certainly took 2 to tango. the anger i still see him have is appalling. he pushes me away, and yet wants to pull me close.<P>I said stuff like that about the OW...sheer hatred. And my H thought that I must hate him as well. I didn't (well, hardly ever). I love him. I have nothing for her...so I targeted her with my anger. Until it didn't matter anymore. Like I told my H this past month when he told me she is getting married. "I hardly ever wish her ill anymore." Ok, so that isn't so glowing...but it isn't rage either.<P>Just because your H hates the OM, it doesn't mean he hates you. <P>The verbal abuse toward you is something else, and that needs fixing. Boundaries. Even if you saw a counselor alone, it would help you.<P>As for your mom smacking your kid on the mouth...cripes I'd freak if my mom, or my H's, did that. I suppose it depends on age, the depth of the disrespect...and I don't have any sons...but I know I'd want the matter discussed immediately. <P>The good thing you say in your post is that you are good friends with your H...and you say it is when you do what he wants, well that could be meeting ENs, he treats you better when his needs are met? And I know it is difficult to meet needs when yours aren't being met...and you're also meeting needs of 5 kids. I'm exhausted just thinking about it.<P>I generally take a kid along for errands myself, but my kids are teenagers and it is no hardship.<P>Do you think your problems would be solved by divorce? You'd still be dealing with your H because of the kids.<P>I wish your H would come to MB. So many BS don't have remorseful, trying WS, like you. Perhaps he'd realize that he has a treasure in you. Don't get me wrong, BS & WS both that I am, the affair was a bad decision for you, but really working on the marriage was a GREAT decision.<P><P>------------------<BR>Lor<BR>"Whatever is true, honorable, just, pure, lovely, gracious...think about these things." Phil 4:8

Hi Mercy,<P>What a brave soul to get to where you are. Anger, this is a hard one to deal with. I am having this issue myself and I am the BS. I would like to share what has helped me. I myself have anger knowing that the OW is still in my life as long as my H was at home. So now H has had to leave since I can not tolerate looking at him without getting angry. <P>I would like to share this thread with input from 2 special people from the d/d board. Oh, I share this thread every week, I hope this helps your H even in a little way. <P> <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/forum/Forum34/HTML/002494.html" TARGET=_blank>http://www.marriagebuilders.com/forum/Forum34/HTML/002494.html</A> <P>Have you let your H see some of what we Bs's are going through? Sometimes greater appreciation can be gained by seeing how the rest of the world lives. I would be glad if and when my H would finally give up this psyco babble B person. My own personal experience may make your H reconsider. I am not bragging just want to let you know that there are others in a worse position than the two of you at this time. <P>Hope this helps. <BR>L.<P>

mercy,<P>While it tends to decline over time, I can testify as a BS that the anger continues a LONG time. He does probably have anger toward you as well, though perhaps not to the degree that he does toward the OM. Neither of you will ever forget what has happened.<P>My interpretation of the Harley teachings is that it's pretty futile to try to make the anger and memories go away. What you have to do is replace them with the good emotions that come from a rebuilt marriage, by avoiding LBs and meeting ENs. Then the sting of the past tends to go away, being replaced by the new, positive things in your marriage.<P>Probably you know this and are trying to do it, I can't tell too much from your post. But the point is that you can't attack the memories, distrust and anger directly. You can analyze them, both try to forgive, do all kinds of stuff, but it's largely misdirected effort to concentrate on these things. You have to instead work on replacing them with other things.<P>How to make your efforts at this pay better dividends is perhaps the most important question.<P>Good luck,<P>Steve

oops.......seen the light.....not salt light...it was a monday for me yesterday!! LOL <P>*sigh, yes the nice thing IS we are good friends. the intimacy is far and few between BECAUSE i have a real issue with being intimate withsomeone who is disprecting me. I am a better person than that. It is very very hard to meet the needs of my H because! i am busy meeting the needs of 5 little children, trying to make sure they dont walk away from their childhood scarred from this stuff. I work as hard as i can to meet his needs and i admit there are times i fall short, not because im not trying to meet them but because i truely CANT. when i am the one who does the rasing of the children and all the housework and all the bills and all the dishes and all the cooking, and he is working 12 hours aday....there isnt much energy left. I try to convince him that if he would come home and take a shower take a short nap and then he would be refreshed to take on some responsibility of his children, then i would certainly have more time for him. it is frustrating. he is really depressed and doesnt really want to tell anyone his problems so counseling has been kind of nill. we did go to our pastors for some cousingling and well...honestly they kind of stepped back from us. the counselor before that told us to just grow up. <P>the deal with my mom was very appropriate. my mother HATES to get after my kids, but he was definelty disrespectful terribly, if it had been me he had been like that with, he would have been in a lot more trouble than that. I didnt have a problem discussing it but i did have a problem argueing in front of kids about it or in anger. that never solves a thing.<P>im not saying divorce would solve anything but he definelty needst o wak up somehow. and keep ing me in the dark forever and such wont make me any more affectionate!! LOL <P>i want to be happy, i want him to be happy, and i want my family to be in peace (as peaceful as a house with 5 kids can be!!!!) <P>i konw my anger at my husband is gone for the past, i dont realy think of it. the current disrespect is somethign that bugs me. hmmm..<P>still hers...i have worked very hard to not allow LB's to take over. like i said in my post, i wouldnt talk about anything as long as thier is anger. I KNOW he has tons of anger that he hasnt let go of. Al i can do is keep working on things, but truely it gets kinda old. the MB principals do apply to him in the way that he sould be meeting my needs also....which isnt gettting done. <P>*sigh....thank you all for your words of wisdom and good luck to ya all<P>mercy