Warning, VENT follows.<P>AAAAAGGGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!<P><Son> was with me all weekend. He didn't hear from my wife until about 9:00 last night. I overheard his half of the conversation - he was sitting right next to me on the bed watching TV, so I couldn't avoid it - and it sounded routine. Unbeknownst to me, she told him she was coming over in the morning (today) to pick him up for camp AND she asked him to tell me this. <P>Well, he didn't - and it's against the separation agreement to pass messages thru him. She reminded me of this recently when I tried the same thing. She was rather indignant about it, as a matter of fact.<P>Anyway, I called from work and Taz (au pair) told me that she showed up this morning, completely unnanounced. Then she fussed at Taz because <son> wasn't ready. She told Taz that <son> will be with her tonight and tomorrow night. She also asked Taz to gather his short pants so she could she what he has and to make sure she irons his t-shirts.<P>I immediately fired off this e-mail to my wife:<BR>*****************<BR>Monday July 30, 2001<P>I consider it to be unacceptable for you to come pick up <son> unnanounced. As you reminded me recently, it is also unacceptable for <son> to pass messages regarding his schedule.<P>Please propose a weekly schedule on a weekly basis. I will consider it but I will not jump through hoops to accomodate your irregular work schedule. <Son> needs predictability and stability.<P><Son> will be with me on Friday, August 3, and Sunday, August 5 thru Aug. 9 for a vacation period. He will also be with me every other weekend; I previously proposed 1st and 3rd.<BR>*****************<BR>I reiterated my instructions to Taz not to agree or disagree with any of her requests - if she makes a request, her standard response should be, "I'll check with Dave." I also told her not to provide ANY of <son's> clothes to her or any other articles from the house.<P>I have in my control all the au pair's activities. Because my wife is required to pay half of the au pair expenses (according to HER proposed separation agreement) I have been perhaps too lenient with sending Taz to my wife's apartment on weekday mornings when <son> has spent the night there so she can leave for work early enough. I carried this over to Plan B, but this episode this morning has me tempted to stop it and let her fend for herself. The down side is that it has an effect on <son>. I don't want him to be forced in the middle. She's already done enough of this by brainwashing him into accepting her explanations for our separation.<P>Advice?<P>WAT

Well, feel free to vent anytime, of course. I'm not qualified to give any Plan B advice. But the only thing that sort of caught my attention was the au pair thing. Technically, if you and your W are splitting the expenses, why are you in control, and why does Taz have to check with you on everything? I'm just not understanding that part of it. And it may not even be a big part in this equation. I guess I'm wondering if you and W need to come to more understanding about Taz and son, so that son is not caught so much in the struggle. Perhaps it is just a temporary struggle until school starts (how old is he?) and then a new schedule and understanding will have to be agreed upon.<P>I'm sure some Plan B advice will be along shortly, but wanted to throw in my 2 cents - or 1 cent.

Dave,<P>Be respectful and polite; in other words "Plan A-type behavior" during any contact with your spouse during Plan B. I realize that this can be difficult to practice (I wasn't very good), but hey, it's easy to sit here and give advice.<P> <P>Try to get a schedule in place. Then have her contact you in advance if she needs to change it.

Dave, <P>BINGO on the stability for son. For W to pop in and out whenever convenient, without warning and *demand* anything will upset the apple cart more than show that she *loves* him. There is a fine line to being accomodating vs. being a door mat. She wants the world to revolve around her demands and her wishes, yet she wants only you to follow the rules. Can you say *double standard*? <P>Keep pushing for stability for your son. I think your best responses to her are what you are doing. They are not disrespectful and ask her to be accountable. She can't have it both ways. Best of luck!!<BR> <BR>*Go confidently in the direction of your dreams. Live the life you have imagined.*<P>Trueheart

Faith - your question is reasonable.<P>My son will soon be 13. We have had au pairs for several years. My wife moved out last August for a trial separation to accomodate her non-affair. She "had" to move out because of my rude decision "not to leave." She insisted on a separation agreement and made all the financial offers including to share 50% of child care expenses.<P>Anyway, when it came time to get a new au pair, I did all the work and I am the only parent on the contract. The au pair lives in my home and cannot reside or even spend the night in my wife's apartment because 1) I don't want her to, and 2) because my wife does not have a separate room for her as required by the contract.<P>The bottom line is that the au pair works for me alone. She cannot have two bosses with differing desires. I can't help it if my wife doesn't get her way because of the decisions she made. I was very accomodating all along in Plan A with my wife's wishes regarding the au pair's services. Tomorrow morning, Taz will get up early and go to my wife's apartment to prevent my son from needing to get up early so my wife can go to work from her apartment required by HER decision to separate on her schedule I cannot control.<P>I do not feel it is my responsibility to solve her problems. If she wants, she can make separate child care arrangements for when <son> stays with her, and I'll pay half.<P>WAT

Dave,<P>Think before you type.<P>While I agree with you about your W. You know what I love to say to her, but I agree with K, Plan B commuication should be like Plan A. <P>Of course who am I to talk.<P>One of things I am thinking about talking/writing STBX (I hate those words)is him getting clothes for YS to keep at his home, I never know where anything is & trying to send clothes that I think might be apporiate is a pain. I know your son falls between my 2 in age, so don't know it it would work. My OS has found it to his advatage to go with less clothes to dad's as he will be taken shopping to his favorite stroe AF ($$).<P>

Thanks K, Trueheart, and sing for your replies.<P>Maybe this boils down to a Plan B core question.<P>How should you treat your spouse in Plan B?<P>Please tell me if my answer is correct: Treat the WS in a "neutral" manner, i.e., the Plan B'er needn't - and shouldn't - continue to show the discretion they might have shown in Plan A. The Plan B'er shouldn't go out of their way to either make the WSs problems or decisions easier to live with, nor should the Plan B'er go out of their way to make things more difficult on the WS. In all aspects, the Plan B'er should give children considerations the highest priority while not using them as pawns.<P>?????????????<P>WAT

Dave,<P>As you know I never went Plan B but I think it is be nice but don't make life any easier for the WS. Could be wrong here.<P>I do have a few questions for you but I need to think them out better, plus I sat on my glasses, can't see the screen too well this morning, skipped school & still need to be studying economics. I understand the supply side economics very well, I have money I spend, if I don't I charge it. And I wonder why my H left me (OW still had her parents credit cards, & H thought I was spoiled, I am )

Dave,<P>sing put it pretty well. You're pleasant (if reserved and businesslike) in actual contact. You don't need to go overboard meeting needs your spouse has (in fact, you shouldn't unless they meet your needs or your children's needs too).<P>I haven't seen a discussion about schedules with your son posted. How does he feel? You're absolutely right that you don't want to put him in the middle, but at his age, he should probably be asked for input.

Thanks sing and K -<P>sing, I think your version of supply side economics has already been tried inside the beltway.<P>About my son, I do ask his preferences. Poor guy, he feels obligated to try to spend his time 50/50 with W and I.<P>I haven't posted anything about schedules. I proposed to my wife early in Plan B that we adopt an alternating weekend format with requests for changes handled in advance with "reasonableness" as a standard.<P>The hard part is the weekday schedule because of my wife's work schedule. She works 4 weekdays a week - never consistent regarding the day off. Her days are usually 12 hours shifts with one day a week being 8 hours - again, not very predictable which one. When school is in session, this gets harder because she has to leave so early in the morning and is usually not home until after dinner.<P>To me, this all leads to a conclusion that she can't be a reliable parent in her current living and working situation - and it's not my problem.<P>Let me make it absolutely clear - I would love to have my son 100% of the time.<P>WAT

Dave, Sorry I'm late responding to this one---was doing the swimming lessons thing with my girls.<P>I have to agree with sing on this one. I know you're angry with your W (and I would be too), but it won't do any good to be sending emails like that. If you must be in contact with her regarding your son, I agree with K---keep it very businesslike.<P>Is it possible for your W to know her schedule in advance? If so, then a written agreed upon schedule is a must at this point. It sounds like Taz is very accommodating to the situation, and you don't want to have that change because of the antics of W.<P>You are doing very well in Plan B. If I move into that stage, which at this point is very possible, I sure hope I can do as well as you are. <P>Hang tight and vent to us!!!!!

WAT, <BR>Just wanted to let you know I'm keeping up with everthing that is going on. Of course I am way to new to give advice in Plan B, but I thought I read somewhere that the BS is supposed to have no contact with WS during this time and that everything needs to be communicated through someone else. Is this the reason for the aupair or is it in your agreement that this takes place? Sorry for the lack of knowledge, I'm still learning all this MB stuff....I hope!<BR>GC

J - update me?<P>GC - you are correct about the textbook Plan B using an intermediary. For me, this wasn't a reasonable option so I chose to use Mr. Voice mail and Ms. E-mail. Other Plan B'ers use this method also.<P>I specifically DID NOT want Taz to serve the intermediary function. It's not fair to her to put her in the middle. That's why I gave her instructions to never comply or not comply with my wife's requests.<P>My wife is currently a model cake person. She just doesn't seem to be able to see that she shouldn't get everything she wants. She abandoned the family and wants to be free of me and live separately to pursue her non-affair with her former best friend's husband, yet she also wants to maintain all rights and privledges of a "full time" parent. She has the hypocrisy to be offended if I discuss our situation with mutual friends (as if she didn't with OM) and she warns me that I should be "honest and fair" in financial matters, yet she can't even admit her affair.<P>Sorry for the vent.<P>WAT

Dave,<P>Don't be sorry for the vent. It has to come out somewhere, where better than here, where we understand.<P>I really think, (this is do what I say not what I do because I won't discusss it with the ...) but you & W really need to get a schedule more than just 50/50 with you having son the most. but then she may get her 50% share & you would have less but it seems that she is putting your son more & more in the middle. I know that you are trying to do this, while still being nice but from what my OS says it takes very little to make the kids feel like they are in the middle. More than my 2 cents

Hey WAT. I had this same question myself. I think the right thing to do is to be neutral. You don't want to meet any of their EN's during this time.

Vent away, WAT!!! I hear ya!<P>I think that being "nice" in Plan B is tricky but probably more effective than anything else. I know that if I get there, I'm going to shoot for that...<P>I mean, like you said, the textbook version is no communication. The next level is e-mail/voicemail only communication, kept strictly to facts and nothing more. But you know, I'm guessing that the difference is in those details... how exactly you word those facts, those questions, etc.<P>There is certainly more than one way to tell the truth... and there is no such thing as a "true" documentary... The filmmaker is always subtly affecting reality but where he puts the camera, when he edits, etc... I think the similarity is that Plan B needs to be done as objectively as possible, but that inevitable amount of subjectivity that gets mixed in there needs to be of the positive sort...<P>zen-ster

Dave,<P>I am a Plan B ingnaramus..... BUT, I gather that with a more predictable schedule you would have much less interaction with your wife. Can she request a set schedule? When does she get her schedule? I know that some people in the medical profession(that's what she does right?) get their rotation schedules a month in advance. Have her email schedule to you once a week or as early as possible and then plan from there. Correspond by email only on this. <BR> Also, MSN has a feature where you can create your own website. Anyone who is invited to enter can do so. We have a calender on our family website so that my H and I can coordinate schedules with all the sports/school and travel that go on in our household. Maybe you could check that out.<BR>Just a suggestion

Sorry I'm so late on this one, Dave.<P>I think using email and voicemail in Plan B when there are kids involved is a pretty good solution.<P>As far as whether to be "nice" or "neutral" in your messages, I'd say you need to be nice. I mean, you don't need to sign it with "Love & Kisses, Dave" or anything, but the idea is if there is going to be any communication during Plan B (even electronic), you do want the WS to think the BS is a safe person to come home to, not angry or bitter. IMHO, being "neutral" can be perceived as uncaring or antiseptic.<P>I made this mistake in my email to my H, I was too antiseptic or neutral, I think. The first thing H said to me on the phone last week was "Do you hate me?"<P>Believe me Dave, I know how hard it is to communicate with them, even in email. Next time maybe post the email here first and we can critique it ... ???<P><BR>Best,<BR>Jo<p>[This message has been edited by Resilient (edited July 30, 2001).]

Whoa!!!! Cleo ... that is an excellent solution.<P>Dave .. that would work great, make an on-line calender, and give access rights to W and Taz. That will cut down the need for voicemails and emails.<P>You RULE, Cleo!!! <P>Jo

Dave,<P>I love Cleo's calendar idea, one which I was planning on using with the H when school starts & the boys start getting game dates.<P>Our biggest problem is H won't say when he is coming. He doesn't give times, drives me crazy, guess he has to check in with OW to get her permission. there is an old phrase that comes to mine but Southern ladies don't talk that way<P>do you need the LB fairie to come out & play, <P>byw, I thought about you, your OM & the dogs when I was reading <I>7 Up </I> by Janet Evanioch (sp) <p>[This message has been edited by sing (edited July 30, 2001).]