<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by dlm:<BR><B>Now you have to decide if your marriage is worth fighting for. That doesn't make you clingy or whiny. It shows that you love her very much. How long you want to work on it is something only you can figure out. It sounds like you haven't worked on it at all up to now so of course she would sound happier without you. How come you don't have the patience to read those books that could be of some value to you. One very good book my H read while I was lost out there in the fog was a book by Gary Smalley called<BR>"Winning your Wife back before it's too late" My H told me it was an excellent book that really helped him with ideas and to get a grip on things. He also read "His Needs/Her Needs" And while he was reading he was working on himself.<BR>He is the man I have always wanted in my life. We have our good days and bad days, but I don't want to go on thru life without him in it.</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>To be honest I haven't been the best husband. I got caught up in providing stuff instead of love and attention. I always loved her but I never found the words... or the actions. I had things in my heart from when I was younger that made it very hard to express my feelings. I don't want to lose her, she does mean the world to me.<P>For the first time in a very long time I'm opening up to anyone who will listen. I am talking about my pain and unhappiness and feeling better for it. I would really like to talk with her about it, because I think it might help explain why it seems like I don't love her. But I know that doing so is focusing on me and not on her. I need to focus on her when I talk with her. So that no matter what happens in the end, she knows I still care and I will always love her.<P>But I'm still having problems with the idea that by working on my own happiness and discovering who I am will somehow make a difference to her. Right now we are both happier to be apart because the marriage wasn't "happy" for either one of us, and NO not for the 12 years she is saying. We were both hurting from our childhoods, but never talked about it. We're both oldest children so we're both pretty stuborn. <P>How did your husband show you that he still loved you? How long before you quit resenting how he was showing you(or what he was saying) and started to believe him? <P>Its very hard to have someone you love so much tell you to move on and quit worrying about them and to quit trying. Its hard because I'm not a psychologist, so I don't know what she's really saying. I assumed that if she said its not going to work, that she's tried to make it work and she just isn't going to do it anymore, that is what she means.<P>I'm just confused.<P>And I have patience to read the books and work hard for this, I'm not looking for someone else so I have time. I'm just panicy right now, because it seems like the stopper has been pulled and the water is getting REALLY low.

sbt,<BR>just checkin' in ya' this morning. I have a busy day, then my H is coming over tonite to work on bills and taxes. Wish me luck! I'm nervous!<P>I'm glad you seem to feel better. I know you were a bit panicky last nite. That's OK, and part of it. I threw many a temper tantrum in the beginning. <P>Have a good day.<P>------------------<BR>Faith1<P>"Then Jesus answered, 'Woman, you have great faith! Your request is granted.'"<BR>Matt 15:28

sad,<BR>it took me 5 months to believe the changes I was seeing in my H were real. He never use to have time to talk to me, but suddenly he was coming home from work to talk to me.<BR>he also would come by my work every day and leave a note or card in my car. Sometimes it said he loved me, sometimes he would pour out his heart to me or he would tell me he was praying for me or he was worried about how all this stress was effecting me. The one thing he never did was judge me about my A. He just told me he wanted me to be happy no matter what that meant. He asked me to forgive him for not being the husband I needed him to be. He asked for another chance to prove he could be that man.<BR>Those were just some of the things he did. He also would give me a flower every week. I still have all the cards and notes. Once I finally felt that he really did mean all those things, I decided to get off the fence and give my marriage another chance. In order to do that, I had to write a no contact letter to the OM. And that was so hard for me to do. I felt that the OM came into my life at a time when I needed someone to listen to me and be there for me. When my H began to meet my needs, I chose to work on that relationship.<BR>Please read those books. And think about sending out cards to her or leaving them in her car to find. Start off slowly by just reminding her that you still love her and always will. If you have any questions, feel free to ask. If it is something I can help with, I will be glad to.<BR>I'm praying for you.<BR>Debbie

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by dlm:<BR><B>It took me 5 months to believe the changes I was seeing in my H were real. He never use to have time to talk to me, but suddenly he was coming home from work to talk to me.<BR>he also would come by my work every day and leave a note or card in my car. Sometimes it said he loved me, sometimes he would pour out his heart to me or he would tell me he was praying for me or he was worried about how all this stress was effecting me. The one thing he never did was judge me about my A. He just told me he wanted me to be happy no matter what that meant. He asked me to forgive him for not being the husband I needed him to be. He asked for another chance to prove he could be that man.<BR>Those were just some of the things he did. He also would give me a flower every week. I still have all the cards and notes. Once I finally felt that he really did mean all those things, I decided to get off the fence and give my marriage another chance. In order to do that, I had to write a no contact letter to the OM. And that was so hard for me to do. I felt that the OM came into my life at a time when I needed someone to listen to me and be there for me. When my H began to meet my needs, I chose to work on that relationship.</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>My wife moved back to her parents so she's 200 miles away. I guess I can just send cards and letters fairly often and flowers not quite as often. I guess I shouldn't call her very often, even though she said I could. She also said she needs her space. <P>I try not to talk about her affair because it hurts, and she doesn't seem to have much remorse about it. But I have asked and have regreted it.<P>Can I talk about what I'm learning about myself and my pain, or do I keep that quiet and just say things like "my therapy is really helping." Do I never talk about myself and how I'm feeling other than love for her. If I have a bad day at work or something comes up with the puppies, do I just gloss over it or not even mention it. Will talking about how the puppies are doing, be good or bad?<P>

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by dlm:<BR><B>It took me 5 months to believe the changes I was seeing in my H were real. He never use to have time to talk to me, but suddenly he was coming home from work to talk to me.<BR>he also would come by my work every day and leave a note or card in my car. Sometimes it said he loved me, sometimes he would pour out his heart to me or he would tell me he was praying for me or he was worried about how all this stress was effecting me. The one thing he never did was judge me about my A. He just told me he wanted me to be happy no matter what that meant. He asked me to forgive him for not being the husband I needed him to be. He asked for another chance to prove he could be that man.<BR>Those were just some of the things he did. He also would give me a flower every week. I still have all the cards and notes. Once I finally felt that he really did mean all those things, I decided to get off the fence and give my marriage another chance. In order to do that, I had to write a no contact letter to the OM. And that was so hard for me to do. I felt that the OM came into my life at a time when I needed someone to listen to me and be there for me. When my H began to meet my needs, I chose to work on that relationship.</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>My wife moved back to her parents so she's 200 miles away. I guess I can just send cards and letters fairly often and flowers not quite as often. I guess I shouldn't call her very often, even though she said I could. She also said she needs her space. <P>I try not to talk about her affair because it hurts, and she doesn't seem to have much remorse about it. But I have asked and have regreted it.<P>Can I talk about what I'm learning about myself and my pain, or do I keep that quiet and just say things like "my therapy is really helping." Do I never talk about myself and how I'm feeling other than love for her. If I have a bad day at work or something comes up with the puppies, do I just gloss over it or not even mention it. Will talking about how the puppies are doing, be good or bad?<P>

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by dlm:<BR><B>It took me 5 months to believe the changes I was seeing in my H were real. He never use to have time to talk to me, but suddenly he was coming home from work to talk to me.<BR>he also would come by my work every day and leave a note or card in my car. Sometimes it said he loved me, sometimes he would pour out his heart to me or he would tell me he was praying for me or he was worried about how all this stress was effecting me. The one thing he never did was judge me about my A. He just told me he wanted me to be happy no matter what that meant. He asked me to forgive him for not being the husband I needed him to be. He asked for another chance to prove he could be that man.<BR>Those were just some of the things he did. He also would give me a flower every week. I still have all the cards and notes. Once I finally felt that he really did mean all those things, I decided to get off the fence and give my marriage another chance. In order to do that, I had to write a no contact letter to the OM. And that was so hard for me to do. I felt that the OM came into my life at a time when I needed someone to listen to me and be there for me. When my H began to meet my needs, I chose to work on that relationship.</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>My wife moved back to her parents so she's 200 miles away. I guess I can just send cards and letters fairly often and flowers not quite as often. I guess I shouldn't call her very often, even though she said I could. She also said she needs her space. <P>I try not to talk about her affair because it hurts, and she doesn't seem to have much remorse about it. But I have asked and have regreted it.<P>Can I talk about what I'm learning about myself and my pain, or do I keep that quiet and just say things like "my therapy is really helping." Do I never talk about myself and how I'm feeling other than love for her. If I have a bad day at work or something comes up with the puppies, do I just gloss over it or not even mention it. Will talking about how the puppies are doing, be good or bad?<P>

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by dlm:<BR><B>It took me 5 months to believe the changes I was seeing in my H were real. He never use to have time to talk to me, but suddenly he was coming home from work to talk to me.<BR>he also would come by my work every day and leave a note or card in my car. Sometimes it said he loved me, sometimes he would pour out his heart to me or he would tell me he was praying for me or he was worried about how all this stress was effecting me. The one thing he never did was judge me about my A. He just told me he wanted me to be happy no matter what that meant. He asked me to forgive him for not being the husband I needed him to be. He asked for another chance to prove he could be that man.<BR>Those were just some of the things he did. He also would give me a flower every week. I still have all the cards and notes. Once I finally felt that he really did mean all those things, I decided to get off the fence and give my marriage another chance. In order to do that, I had to write a no contact letter to the OM. And that was so hard for me to do. I felt that the OM came into my life at a time when I needed someone to listen to me and be there for me. When my H began to meet my needs, I chose to work on that relationship.</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>My wife moved back to her parents so she's 200 miles away. I guess I can just send cards and letters fairly often and flowers not quite as often. I guess I shouldn't call her very often, even though she said I could. She also said she needs her space. <P>I try not to talk about her affair because it hurts, and she doesn't seem to have much remorse about it. But I have asked and have regreted it.<P>Can I talk about what I'm learning about myself and my pain, or do I keep that quiet and just say things like "my therapy is really helping." Do I never talk about myself and how I'm feeling other than love for her. If I have a bad day at work or something comes up with the puppies, do I just gloss over it or not even mention it. Will talking about how the puppies are doing, be good or bad?<P>

dlm,<BR>That's beautiful! Thanks for sharing! It's so good to see the specific things your H did for you. It encourages me so much. Bless you and your marriage!

SBT,<P>I'll answer a few of your questions. You asked how do you convince your W of... The answer is you don't convince her of anything. You act. You become the kind of person you like. You become the kind of person she might like, or even the person that she married. You learn to live your life, but every chance you get you show her you love her, in short your Plan A.<P>SBT, you cannot convince her of a d**** thing. You can simply become a better person, as judged by your own evaluation of yourself. You become more considerate, perhaps not so driven at work. You develop hobbies, you live your life well. You become someone interesting again SBT.<P>And then you ask will it work. You want a guarentee. There are no guarentees, SBT. Only the guarentee that if you work on yourself you will become someone you like better, you will know you have done all you can do. You will be able to look yourself in the mirror and know two things if nothing else.<P>1. You didn't quit.<BR>2. You are a better man for it.<P>This is not about being a doormat. To do what is suggested is tough, it is not for wimps. Ask anyone who has done it.<BR>It is tough to look in the mirror and decide that some of what she has said is right and then fix it.<P>That is all there really is to it no matter which marriage recovery program you subscribe to. You must do the work, but if you do it right you will get a sense of satisfaction that you don't have now. She may never come back but who ever does enter you life will find a man that knows what he is doing.<P>So it is up to you really. Always has been, no counselor can really do it for you. I would suggest if you want a more professional approach that you call one of the Harley's and see what they can offer you for an approach.<P>My advice SBT, go for it man. What have you got to lose. If you do nothing you have already lost. That I am afraid is the fact of the situation.<P>It is sort of like CPR. You don't worry about cracking a few ribs of the victim, because you wouldn't have started CPR unless the heart had already stopped along with the breathing. But you can bring them back.<P>Hope this helps you in some way.<P>God Bless,<P>JL<P>PS: You ask why do people have faith that there is something left for you. Well, if you have read here for the 2.6 years as I have you have seen this scenario so many times. She doesn't want the marriage now. She is rewriting history to justify what she did and is doing. She knows she is hurting you. But if you don't talk about the affair but talk about things you are doing, how the lawn is doing, how friends are doing, she will begin to realize that she doesn't have to rewrite history after all. <P>The affair will die, and some of the rewritten history will return to normal. Still she won't trust you (ironic isn't it??), but if you are consistent in your love and in the changes you decide to make, she will begin to see the man she married.<P>It happens SBT, it really does. Not all of the time but more times than you think. Listen to what people are telling you. You don't have to "fight" as you visualize the word. You have to "act" to save your marriage and those acts are for the most part inward.<p>[This message has been edited by Just Learning (edited August 01, 2001).]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Just Learning:<BR><B>You don't have to "fight" as you visualize the word. You have to "act" to save your marriage and those acts are for the most part inward.</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Thanks! I guess I just miss her and am looking for a way to show her <B>right now</B>, what I've felt for years but couldn't say the right way. I know there is no quick fix, I just wish I new that she would hold off on the divorce to give me at least some chance. Not for me but because she's still confused about it and doesn't realy want it either. I know if she wants it she'll go get it, but it would be nice to know that she's not in a hurry.<P>Thanks again to everyone!

Hi SBT, whew, this thread is getting involved!! I don't have time to respond in depth, but as usual, I'm going to ditto what Just Learning said.<P>And maybe, just maybe, the first thing about yourself that you should examine and work on is patience.<P>Your marriage took a long time to break. It's going to take a long time to repair. <P>It took 18 months for my H to decide to move home and work on the marriage. I did give up on the marriage several times, but I never gave up on me - and that is what worked for me. My H slowly, over the months, came to trust that my changes were real and not manipulation. <P>Keep reading here, and use plan A to make you into the best YOU that you can be - marriage or no marriage.<P>------------------<BR><I>Pain is a given, misery is optional.</I>

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by BrambleRose:<BR><B>And maybe, just maybe, the first thing about yourself that you should examine and work on is patience.</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>I know that's one of many. I guess when the separation seemed to me to come out of the blue, I thought a solution would too. I know better now.<P>Thanks!<P>

SBT<BR>It's been a couple of days since your first post and I know the world can change several times in that length of time when it comes to dealing with an A. So I apologize if my input is coming too late. <P>I too have heard EXACTLY what you have heard. I also heard "why don't you just give up", and "can't you see your love isn't wanted", and "why are you afraid to move on". However, I also know that right now we are trying to work on our marriage (we are a long way from being recovered - we aren't even living together, but we are working on it). I am convinced that it is because I never really gave up. Oh sure, I often felt like it. I even posted an "its over" post (several times in fact). The point is don't make decisions off of raw emotions. After the emotions have subsided you may not want to give up. Remember, she is in a fog and many of us have heard the same lines. A lot of these WS do come to their senses, but not if you give up too soon.<P>hang in there<BR>S&C

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by sadandconfused:<BR><B>I even posted an "its over" post (several times in fact). The point is don't make decisions off of raw emotions. After the emotions have subsided you may not want to give up. Remember, she is in a fog and many of us have heard the same lines. A lot of these WS do come to their senses, but not if you give up too soon.</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Its just all so new. Its only been 2 weeks since she left. So I AM just a big raw nerve. What I've come to realize through all the input here is that when I feel like giving up, I have to remember that she is confused too.<P>Its like my therapist said. I'm a dog owner, so he adapted the story.<P>"If your dog had gotten away and you saw them running around the neighborhood, you wouldn't say 'Well, if they come back I'll be happy, but if they decide not to I won't worry about it.' You'd go to every effort to bring them home."<P>But in this case its not as simple as going to her parents place and making her come back. She has to want to come back or she won't stay. And I have to give her reason to come back.<P>I know that now. I'm just trying to deal with it coming on so quickly and being so new.

STL,<BR>While it is more difficult with your W at her parents 200 miles away, it also gives you the time and space to work on the things in yourself that you want to change. One thing you can do it send cards. Find cute cards, funny cards, just because I care cards, I love you cards, I'm thinking of your cards, and put on in the mail if not every day, then every other day. And of course tell her about the puppies. Only share other things as she asks. Right now she is very much into herself and her needs, not yours.<BR>So for the time being any thing that is negative about the whole situation will just be an LB for her. Ask how she is doing. Let her know you love her and are praying for her.<BR>And go and get some of the books and begin to read and digest the information. I asked my H which book helped him the most and he told me the one by Gary Smalley called<BR>"winning your wife back before it's too late." So you might check that one out and see what you think.<BR>My prayers are with you.<BR>Debbie

Debbie,<BR>I'm glad you mentioned that. The first book I read when my H left was Smalley's "Winning your Husband Back Before it's too Late". It's a bit more of a "doormat" (I really hate that word - but for lack of a better one at this monent) approach, which certainly has it's uses - being a servant - putting WS needs as a priority, admitting some responsibility in the problems, being willing to take the first step in fixing what's broken, etc. It was WONDERFUL at picking me up and helping me move to the next step - DOING SOMETHING. It made me look at some things I could actually change about myself, as well as wehere to look for happiness (I had previously put all my happiness in the hands of my H).<P>Then I read some other self-esteem buidling books, then the truth about the A came out, so Dr. Dobson came to the rescue, then I found MB. <P>THanks again, deb, for sharing.<P><BR>P.S. sbt, I replied on your post on the Plan A/B Forum.<P>------------------<BR>Faith1<P>"Then Jesus answered, 'Woman, you have great faith! Your request is granted.'"<BR>Matt 15:28<p>[This message has been edited by Faith1 (edited August 01, 2001).]

Faith,<BR>When my H and I first went to our pastor for counseling I didn't know about this site or that there were books out there to help. Even our pastor didn't know about too many books to help our situation since it was me that was the wayward spouse. Everything he had was geared toward the man being the wayward spouse. Now I read everything I can so that I won't be sustible to an A again. And to help me learn to take control of my destiny myself. I still lean on my H for support, but I have discovered that I am more than capable of making myself happy. And having an A never accomplishes what those involved think it will. It only exchanges one set of problems for another and then there is a big mess in the end to clean up and work thru. But while I was out there in that fog and being so selfish about everything going on around me, it seemed like the answers to all my needs.<BR>If my sharing on here will help anyone, then I am grate to be of help. I have asked God to show me to good I can do thru what I have learned. My H is very supportive of this and is so proud of me. I am truly a blessed woman.<P>Debbie

Looking for Sad_But_True, DLM, and some of the others who posted here. <p>I'm bumping this because there is some good things in this thread.

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Husband2you:
Looking for Sad_But_True, DLM, and some of the others who posted here. <p>I'm bumping this because there is some good things in this thread.<hr></blockquote><p>I guess its been a long time since I last posted and I should probably do an update.<p>I did so much soul searching and thearapy and just general thinking that I became a much happier person through this terrible ordeal. In very late December I decided I had had enough waiting for my wife to come around and decided to file for the divorce myself. In early January I called my wife and told her it was over and I filed the paperwork. That was an oddly happy day for me. I felt free and finally at peace. <p>We only have another 30 days or so before its final but things are going great. A new job, a new puppy and a new love have all come into my life and I am very happy.<p>So, my marriage failed. I am now a statistic, but I think my life is actually better now because of it. There was so much going on with me that it took my wife leaving to deal with it.<p>I wish I could give some great advice on how to save your marriage, but I can't. I can say that even if you don't save it, its not the end of the world.<p>That's it for me. Continued good luck to all of you.<p>SBT

ohhhh!!!! it's so good to hear from you. I wondered where you went.. sent out a couple of posts for you... I guess H2Y's post hit your e-mail?? smart guy [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img] <p>I'm glad you are doing well. I'm sorry your marriage didn't work out. Your W gave up a good one!!! <p>Thanks for the update!