Ugh. So, my H keeps calling me at work and we end up talking.<P>I found out that he ran to her this weekend and drove all the way to New York because he felt so horrible. He wanted to be with me and wanted me to make him feel better, but instead he ran to her because I was in plan B and refused to see him... He really needed somebody, I wouldn't be there for him, so he ran to her and he says he didn't like doing it, he wanted to run to me. He says they just talked and he did not have sex with her (they were at her mom's house).<P>It pi**es me off and makes me feel really bad about going to plan B.<P>He has been calling me everyday for stupid stuff and getting me to talk. I agreed to let him come over tonight for an hour and see the kids outside of the house while I go shopping. (I don't trust him inside and he says he has no $$ and nowhere to bring them but wants to see them - so I caved). He mentioned seeing me as well, I told him I planned on being in my car and leaving when he got there, he said that wouldn't work, we have to see each other.<P>We've been talking alot about the past. He is really focused on me and the things I did wrong and how he doesn't think I'll ever change. He likes the changes I've made so far, but it is not what is really important to him. I ask him about it and I don't see how I can make it better.<P>Basically he says he always felt like I was in control and that we always did what I wanted to do. Even though we moved just so he could go to school and pursue his dreams, I increased my commute time to an hour while his was 5 minutes, I took time out of work for his homework or classes, and I paid for him to go to school, he says he always felt it was a token I was throwing out. Like I was just doing it to try and make him happy for a while and I didn't mean it. I didn't appreciate him. He felt like I was always manipulating and controlling the situations, but, I don't see it like that. We talked relentlessly about stuff and I always tried to make sure he was happy with his life.<P>And the weird thing is, before the A, he would say he was very happy, something was just missing. Now all this stuff is coming out, he says he never felt he could share it with me before but it's the way he felt...<P>He says he thinks OW happened because he was finally doing something for HIM, because believe it or not he always gave in to me and did what I wanted. I said, well, you didn't have to pick something that would be so detrimental to me, did you? I can think of alot of other things you could have done instead to do for YOU that would not have hurt me so bad.<P>I don't know. We talked about counseling alot and he keeps asking me to do stuff for him (lots of little things). I just keep telling him I can't do any of it until he is ready to protect me from OW.<P>I talked to him about seperation and how he says, no, don't do. Give him two weeks and he'll have an answer for me. He picked two weeks because he knows I won't wait much longer.<P>In those two weeks, he is willing to give me protection from OW. He told me exactly what all his plans are and he says he will not see her. <P>Furthermore, I talked about maybe trying to spend lots of time with each other over the next two weeks. He will go to counseling and get the help he needs. We have no sex, but we try and do friend stuff and just enjoy each other's company. I will be there for him since he is willing to protect me from OW for that period of time. He is going to talk to his counselor tomorrow and see if he thinks it is a good idea to do this.<P>I told him I was not willing to do "all these little" things for him until he can prove to me that it is over with OW and protect me. I told him I feel like I am in competition with OW for him and I'm not going to do this stuff just to try and win him back. (but I agreed to do this stuff during the two weeks, I see it sort of a trial period, do a great plan A, he's in counseling and see what happens...)<P>I also mentioned he keeps talking about me changing and what about him? He says, that's why he is going to counseling, to learn how to change. I told him my goal would be to be in a marriage where I could trust him against and feel safe that he would not cheat on me again. He says, he understands and he is working on it. He would want to see the counselor eventually together to work on our problems (if he decides to work on the marriage after these next two weeks).<P>I don't know. Do you think I'm stupid for doing this? Plan B just doesn't seem to work for me, my H just thinks I am abandoning him. He doesn't see it as me being hurt and trying to get on with my life. He sees it as me using the kids against him. I tried explaining that I DO NOT WANT TO SEE HIM, he can see the kids, I arranged in my plan B letter to him originally for him to see the kids. He just took it as since I did not want to see him that he couldn't see the kids and that I was using them against him. This even despite all my efforts to try and get him to see the kids... We talked about it and he says it doesn't matter now anyway because he's already over it...<P>It's like my plan B just always gets him mad at me and makes him run to OW. <P>I just keep hoping counseling will help, y'no? Do you think this is a step in the right direction or am I just going backwards?<P>What do you suggest I do, just stick to plan B anyway during these next 2 weeks, regardless? The problem here is that my H views the conditions to end plan B as me trying to control him again. That's not the way I see it as all, but it's the way he sees it. I say I need a no-contact letter and re-commitment to the marriage and he says he sees that as me trying to control him and make him do what I want.<P>Everything I do gets turned around and changed into something negative and makes him mad at me. Or at least it used to, it's not anymore so that's why I feel we are making progress.<P>What do I do??<P>

hbh, I'm sure you will gets lots of great advice.<P>I'm sorry, but I see this as another tactic of his to get his way. Your Plan B is making him squirm a tad, and I'm afraid if you flop back to Plan A, he is getting his way, and he will continue to get you to do things his way. He will talk you into anything during those 2 weeks - even sex, or "all those little things" that he wants. I believe that if you stay in plan B, you will protect yourself from another major waffle. Wasn't it just a week ago when he came clean about the PA and all the icky details? Can he "clean up" and get committed to you this fast?<P>JMO. I haven't known you as long as some of the ones here, but I hate to see you give in too fast.<P>hugggzzzzz<P>------------------<BR>Faith1<P>"Then Jesus answered, 'Woman, you have great faith! Your request is granted.'"<BR>Matt 15:28

Thanks Faith. I really value your input. I have no idea what's going on anymore.<P>I talk to my H about things as they went on, and pretty much everything I did related to plan B backfired in that he just took it as me being vengeful, out to get him, and me trying to control him again...<P>I don't really understand anything anymore. I don't know if it's a good idea to do this 2-week thing or not. I want to do it, but I am just scared it will backfire on me and I will get hurt again. <P>I mean my H has been steadily progressing for the past 4 weeks. I feel he is very close to making a commitment to me and wanting back in the marriage and I don't want to blow it. I already made him run back to OW once by going to plan B...<P>I will never know what is the right thing to do I guess...<P>I don't want to be a sucker and let him back too soon, but I don't want to miss my opportunity to re-establish the love bank either.<P>What is it I've been hearing so much of lately? Go by the actions. The actions tell me I should do this 2-week plan A thing and hope for the best. His actions tell me he is finally willing to get the help he needs, he chose to get help, I did not force him. His words tell me the same things, but I am not willing to believe the words just yet.<P>I think I better call Steve...

Yes. Call Steve. And depending on the last time you talked to him, be sure to tell him everything (the icky stuff last week. Sorry, but that is still in my mind)<P>huggsss. I am praying for you. I know that you will make the right decision, especially if you talk to Steve. I don't want to see you hurt again by letting hubby in too soon, since he is so good at manipulating. <P>Hang in there. we're here if anything else happens.<P>------------------<BR>Faith1<P>"Then Jesus answered, 'Woman, you have great faith! Your request is granted.'"<BR>Matt 15:28

Hi Hurtbyhubby:<P>I think there is a lot of good things happening between you and your WH but I don't think he's quite ready for recommitment...he is still blaming you and wanting you to change...those are exceptable feelings but they need to be balanced out by admission of his own that indicate his contributions to the breakup of your marriage. It took a long time for my WH to get here but he has began to change his perspective and begun to accept some of the blame. We're not there yet, but we're on our way. <P>I say wait and continue the Plan B because I feel he's only manipulating you to get you to call off the Plan B. Remember, in a way, since the affair he has been in control and he probably liked it. Now you have shifted the control back to you and he's not quite so happy.<P>I do think that you need to ease off a bit on the requirements for his coming back....no contact is important of course...but it's time for compromise (especially since he feels there is a control issue in the marriage)...don't let your reconnection be about your demands about OW...it needs to be about getting the two of you back together...getting back your connection to each other....make that your focus and try to put OW issue on the back burner, if possible...and I know that's like trying to ignore a burr between you and your saddle...but you need to try.<P>Waffling can be difficult but it means he still cares...remember that.<P>Faye<P><BR>

"I already MADE him run back to OW once by going to plan B..." How did u MAKE him run to OW?!!! Did u put a gun to his head? I would put money down that this visit to OW was a planned one between he and she but he told you differently to blame you for his actions and it obviously worked. JMO, but I think your H is doing a job on you mentally. "Change this, but i'm not ready for counseling". "Change that, but you are still controlling what i do, by asking me to stick to my marriage vows or when i start counseling." Your H is in no way ready to reconcile honestly and faithfully. He gives a good talking game, but the MB words for the week are "ACTION'S SPEAK LOUDER THAN WORDS". Words are nothing when they come out of a WS mouth. When you can't believe the words, believe the actions. She is out of town, so he can't occupy his time with her, so that leaves you. He is having his cake and eating it too, because he knows that Plan B was nothing but you blowing off hot air. Yes you can Plan A with this time you have, but then what happens when she returns, who will be the one left holding the pain. You are not in Plan B, when you talk to him daily, so now he doesn't take you seriously when you say "I can't have 3 people in the marriage". You know he went to see her, he blamed you for it and you gave him the power to make you believe it. You say he drove all the way to NY to see her, when he doesn't make the effort to drive to see his kids, saying he works too much and is too tired. JMO, but I think you need to talk to Harley or another counselor because you will continue going around in circles, like a puppy chasing it's tail, blaming yourself for HIS ACTIONS and CHOICES. He is all talk.<p>[This message has been edited by trying2_4give (edited August 02, 2001).]

You have to always remember that his thoughts and actions are so much manipulated by the OW when they are in contact. She is reinforcing your negative side to him, that's probably the biggest thing they have in common. He tells her things about you and she puts her spin on them so now he can come back to you after with the verification that everything is your fault, cause she indeed told him so. I just wish people who needed counselling would use professionals rather than crackpots for advice. You sound like a very rational person, and I think I have gone through the same process as you but he just doesn't see it as long as his counselling sessions with her are so one sided in his favour. <P>You are absolutely correct to tell him there's no room in this marriage for three people. Tell him if he needs counselling get it from someone who won't place blame, but will try to help things improve for both of you. Take heart we know how you feel.

Thanks for the kick in the butt guys. The counseling is really helping my husband I think, I see so many changes in him.<P>I should not have gone back to plan B this third time. My H was finally opening up to me and trying to make amends and I ran away because I was hurt (I went to plan B because he told me his EA turned PA). I tried to tell myself it was because he wouldn't commit to me or completely end it with her, but it was because I was angry and hurt. It was a bad choice. I knew in my heart he was on the verge of commiting/ending it with OW and I just ran... I did push him to her - THIS TIME. <P>He has actually agreed to no contact finally. (he never actually agreed before, just said he was thinking about it and he was pretty sure he'd end it). My big problem is that I want a letter/email and he insists on doing it over the phone.<P>For a while I told him, I needed a letter and I would accept nothing less. Now I am just saying how much a letter would mean to me and it will help him show me he means what he says (thanks TOPIE!!). I tell him a phone call will push me even farther away, I will try to accept it, but a letter would mean so much more. He says he wants to call.<P>I'm trying not to push. This is supposed to happen before next Thursday. I told him to talk to his counselor first to see about letter vs. phone call but he said he planned on having it done before Thursday (when his counseling appt. is) and just trust him. It could be tonight for all I know, Thursday was just the day I knew because he said BEFORE his next appt., which is Thurs.<P>He loves me again. I am in shock. He is not one to tell me those words lightly. He hasn't loved me for 10 months. It is hard for me to react to them, I can see it in his eyes that he means it, but now, I can't bring myself to say it back. I don't feel it. How sad, someday I will.<P>He has talked to the counselor about moving to joint counseling in the future. He has not fully committed to me yet, he wants to go to some more counseling sessions. He is still afraid things will go back to the way it was before the A and he was not happy (I did not know).<P>I don't know. I'm not in plan B, but I am not in plan A either. I just am. I'm waiting and watching to see the actions. See if he calls her or writes the letter, see what other changes he goes through. In the meantime I am working on my control and trying to understand what it is that I do that seems controlling to him. <P>He has given me a list of where he'll be this next week so that I am sure he will not be with her. He offered, that's positive. I still don't really know if he'll be where he says or if she'll be there with him, but, it's something...