<p>[ January 10, 2002: Message edited by: LonelyAtNight ]</p>

Does she mean she will move out and leave the kids with you? Sounds like what you want, eh? or need?<P>I don't recall you describing the "she feels dirty" stuff. Hey, if she'll leave to "clean up" and leave the kids with you, that could be the break through you've been waiting for?<P>WAT

Wow, man, this is the conversation I envision myself having with my wife in a couple months. She isn't showing signs of changing and she also <I>loves</I> the current living arrangement - she stays home, I work, I pay the bills, she chats with guys online and gets laid from two different guys. Must be nice indeed!<P>But I am like you, I just can't take that. Not for long anyway. You've been dealing with it a lot longer than I, so I can understand you being fed up with it. <P>This might be exactly what she needs. I'm not sure I buy the "I don't feel worthy" bullcrap. I mean, yes, to a certain extent it might be true, but the fact is that she has it made and she doesn't want it to end. <P>You've made the step, in my opinion (probably not Dr Harley's) you should go with the separation. Two things might come of it... you will be rid of this liar and cheater and get on with a new life... or she comes around. And realizes the party is over - that you won't take it anymore and she either has to change or lose you.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by LonelyAtNight:<BR><B>. She said that if that were the case then she would move out once she gets a job (hopefully within next month). She said that would be a divorce. I said fine. Then later she said if it would make me happy to be separated maybe we could try a trial separation to see if she would miss me. I said that it is fine with me too. Then she said why I couldn’t jut be happy staying here with her like this as roommate until she is ready to recommit to be my wife again. She just needs time to get this feeling of being dirty and unworthy to me out of her head, but she couldn’t do it right now. I suggested a therapy, but she said no. She didn’t want to hear about the word “therapy” or “counseling”. So I need to think about what to do next to prepare myself for the separation, the kids’ visitation, school, etc….<P>I feel at lost here, but I'm somewhat OK with it.<BR>LAN</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P><BR>LAN,<P>I think you are on the right track for you. I know how much you didn' want to be the one to leave, so if she leaves & leaves you the kids that would be great, then maybe she could see what she is missing. I don't understand why she wouldn't go to counseling, with her feelings she needs it. <P>Have more thoughts but I need to go study. Had a funny link I wanted to send you but aol will not let met paste things in here.<P>hang in there<BR>sing<BR>

<p>[ January 10, 2002: Message edited by: LonelyAtNight ]</p>

<B>I thought that when I returned home from work yesterday I would get set and set of letter waiting for me in my room, instead I got ONE post-it note that said, <I>”Just hang in there. This difficult time will pass. I will try harder.”</B></I><P>LAN,<P>FWIW, I think you should Plan A your butt off! I think your W doesn't know what she wants. One day, she wants to leave, next day she wants to "try harder" - that is all good for you.....what do YOU want? If you want your M, then SHOW her!!! Become the loving, caring, considerate H that she WON'T be able to leave! Plan A, Plan A, Plan A.<P>Get Dr. Harley's book HNHN if you can. You can order it on line from here, just follow the links above to the bookstore. Read it, devour it, ask her to read it if she wants to....it WILL help you save your M. Even if she doesn't read it, YOU CAN DO IT ALONE. We all know it's hard when she's on a rollercoaster, and she can't drive, and she's got you on one, too. But YOU have to be the rock. YOU have to be the one to remain stable and consistent.<P>If you want your M saved, get busy! My .02<P>Lupo

LAN,<P>I am in a similar situation. My W is having an A, denies it and will not leave. She says she wants a D, but hasn't taken any action. So we continue to live together in a constant stalemate. I will not leave because of my daughter, so my options are limited. I know how you feel.<BR>I'm still there bringing home a paycheck, cooking, cleaning, taking care of our daughter, and my W has OM to fill the needs she won't let me fill. I definately feel like a doormat. All I can do is continue to plan A and hope the OM gets inpatient, my W gets tired of the status quo and makes a move one way or another or the "fog" starts to lift.<P>I too had a not so pleasant conversation with my W a couple of nights ago. Lots of LB's, but sometimes they're unavoidable when you're speaking the truth. You and I both need to find the strength to hold on one day at a time.<P>sad dad

LAN, I am so sorry for you situation. Believe me I know exactly how you feel as well as many others in here. I'm getting ready to post something that will make you feel better and that you will find unbelieveable!<P>GC

Of course your wife doesn't want to leave you or else she already would have left. Of course she'll miss you and she knows this.<P>It sounds to me like she is having trouble forgiving herself and ridding herself of the demons that tempt her to cheat.<P>Prayer changes things. I'll keep you in mine.

Guys, my $0.02 worth is not to forget the purpose of Plan A. What you're doing is stripping away the arguments of your WS - all the things they've disliked about you in the past. You're also working on yourself to be a better person.<P>Then when you Plan B - the shock of no contact and that you're not there either pulls them back from the brink OR they continue with the OP. If they continue with the OP they remember you as a good person not your bad and disrespectful behaviour. You also saved your love for them and your respect for yourself. Plan B doesn't mean the M os over - it just means you're being very firm about your needs and what you accept as acceptable behaviour from your WS.<P>If you've been doing a good Plan A (and you have to ask yourself if you've been doing this) and your WS is sitting in the fence, implement Plan B. Break the contact for a while. Put her under pressure.<P>If your WS is saying things like let's be roomates, I'd go straight to Plan B to show her that this behaviour is totally unacceptable. Either there's a committment to save the marriage - on both sides - or there isn't. You can't be half pregnant here.<P>A POST-IT on the door saying 'just hang in there, it'll get better' is somebody saying 'I haven't understood one thing about what's going on'. In my opinion, it shows a complete insensitivity to your feelings, it shows a disregard for you as husband and it shows a great deal of disrespect to you as a person.

Freddy, I'd have to disagree with you there, on your last point. To me, that little note would practically drive me to tears if I saw my wife left it for me on the mirror, or something. All I want is a sign that she is really reaching. And not just dragging this convenient marriage out (which is how it seems)<P>I think the note is an awesome sign. Whatever you've been doing, it seems to me that you've been doing it right.<P>So what have you been doing, anyway? hehe. You need to give me some pointers. Just kidding, really. Every situation is different and the things you do might not have an effect on my wife at all. Nothing seems to have an effect on her except when I totally pretend everything is ok.<P>But, then again, maybe the note is just something to prolong your own marriage of convenience for her. But I honestly don't think so. She seems to be reaching. Reach back gently.

GodlyMan,<P>disagreements are fine with me - adds colour :-) I'm only expressing an opinion anyway, what it might mean to me. Only LAN can know what it means to him and act on that.<P>take care,<P>Freddy

LAN,<BR>I dont know this might be the wake up call she needs. And to see you as a strong man with boundrys and needs she has not been meeting. So far her recovery has been all about her, and alot of people seem to say that real recovery happens when you start to look outside yurself to your spouses needs.<P>So I see this as a positive step. I think you need to be stong and not cave in to just a little positive move on her part tho. And you sound dangerously close to really not caring. Can you agree with the suggestion of seperation?<BR>If she will not consider counseling will she consider something like the workbook from Dr Phil relationship rescue? Somehow you need to get her to realize she doesnt have to try harder... she has to try something else. Trying hard as she has been has been getting her nowhere. Everyone tells me that I need to lead him to recovery by doing it myself, can you get the tapes from the Harleys or relationship rescue and start on your own?<P>Please try and save your love for her, you have come this far, now may be when you have a real chance, as long as you can remain sure about what you want... a fullfilling marriage.<P>Lora

Freddy, you might even be right but as you said, it's a matter of opinion. Everyone sees things from their own perspective, and that's what is so great about this forum. I guess I am just in desparate need of hope, and to me, that note would signify hope.<P>Lora definied it very well. Your wife probably hasn't seen this strong side of you. At least, not in a while. Perhaps you could have been a bit more diplomatic about it, but I am like you, there are times at which I am not feeling much of a diplomat. For her to be confronted with the fact that you have really been hurting and that you showed it, might have brought out the giver in her. As Lora also said, she might be ready to begin the process of recovery since she is thinking about you and not herself.<P>Not saying that it will all be rosy from now on, but take this as a sign that she isn't impossible. There's still love in there for you, and as soon as she places your needs before hers, your marriage can be better than it ever has been.<P>Just don't become a Pavlov's dog and figure out that every time you blow up at her, she will tuck her tail! You still LBed and that's still not a good thing.

See how one little note moved you? Now make sure the big meaning behind it follows through. Otherwise she may think that all she has to do is leave little notes to keep you hanging on. <P>Hate to be the pessimist but that is what my H confessed to doing. Little things to make me hopeful but continue the A. He is out the door now. Wanting to come home but I have to SEE BIG changes first. <P>JMHO.<P>L.<BR>

<p>[ January 10, 2002: Message edited by: LonelyAtNight ]</p>

<p>[ January 10, 2002: Message edited by: LonelyAtNight ]</p>

LAN<P>think Lora gave you good advice.<P>You need to protect your love for your W, or what is left of it.<P>I could never do enough to show my H we could work things out & if he was as torn as he led me to believ (totally different story to the OW), I just didn't have any love left. He knew when he made his decision to go to her, that that was it. I have no regrets, but don't let yourself be in the postion of losing all your love when it may not be too late.<P>Keeping you in my thoughts

<p>[ January 10, 2002: Message edited by: LonelyAtNight ]</p>

LonelyatNight,<P>I think she is very confused because of the thick fog. There is depression, and withdrawal associated with this thing. <P>Don't give up yet. Everyone here has the same basic story, just different chapters. My chapter is H is WH with EA. We are now 18 mos. into. I've been in Plan A for about 4 mos since finding MB.<P>It takes time. A small note like that - no matter what written on - means alot. She is reaching out. Your pain does not always make everything professional. My H still can't write me any letter about the way he feels. Some people deal with it by closing up.<P>The best thing to do is Plan A, read SAA, HNHN, and other books. Learn about Rules of protection, care, honesty, time; and Plan A. Everyone is different on timing. Who actually knows everything she is dealing with. These things take time. Patience is good, with good Plan A; lots of time, and caring.<P>Please God, grant me the ability to be the best person I can be, and that the other special person in my life will come to realize. <P>Be kind and patient. And value those words she gave you. People don't always reach out the way "you" want them to. <P>aftershock