OK, get your flame throwers ready.<P>See my thread, "She declared war."<P>Should I suspend Plan B in order to open up communication? Or is this surrender? HBH, don't bother answering (just teasing).<P>Keep in mind the close proximity to her time to file and the accusations in her attorney's letter, whether real or not concerning communication.<P>Also, keep in mind that we're (son and Taz and I) going to the beach for 4 days starting Monday, 8/6.<P>WAT

Here's a link to <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/forum/Forum37/HTML/011268.html" TARGET=_blank>She Declared War</A>.<P>I voted to suspend Plan B, by the way.<p>[This message has been edited by Nyneve (edited August 02, 2001).]

If you and your lawyer feel that Plan B will harm your case in ANY way, then I would vote to suspend Plan B. Keep all communication strictly to child rearing so you don't drain your love bank any further.<P>Can you have an emergency session with Steve anytime soon?

Dave,<P>Going out on a limb here but I have been worried about you. So here goes...... have you taken your situation and posted it on the d/d site? Those there have more experience than some of us with the legal system and implementation of plans a and b during this kind of time. <P>Just my thoughts. Don't want you to miss an opportunity. Let's pull in all the help here to give you support. <P>My opinion at this time is not as valuable since I have not really been in your position yet. Please take care of you, your son and Taz. I know it is a lot to juggle right. I will remember your entire family (including your W) in my prayers tonight to give you all strength. <P>Take Care,<BR>L.<BR>

Hi Orchid,<P>I went to the D/D board a bit earlier and asked them to visit us here to help Dave. They are on their way!<P>Hey L ... guess great minds think alike, huh? <P>Jo<p>[This message has been edited by Resilient (edited August 02, 2001).]

Ha, ha. I will go hide in my corner now and put my dunce cap on.<P>I vote, show your lawyer the letter you posted here and see what he says. Explain what you are trying to do by plan B and ask HIM if HE thinks it will hurt your cause if you were to divorce someday.<P>Do what he says, if he says to suspend plan B, then suspend it, but ONLY talk about your son when SHE calls YOU. When you need to contact her, do it via email, as discussed in plan B. If she leaves you voicemail, answer with an email, and so on. Minimize direct contact, but don't obviously avoid it so she can use it against you in court...<P>I think it's a bad idea to give out the URL to your wife until she is ready to reconcile. I've seen my words get twisted around all too often. I'm sure you have more than a few posts that can be used against you somehow, especially since she obviously has no qualms about stretching the truth... You know what YOU meant, most of us even know what you meant, but that doesn't mean that's how it will be seen in the end, y'no?<BR>

Ok, I'm feel old enough to vote now. My vote is to talk to Steve and your lawyer. Plan whatever it takes to win your case and use your common sense. Be civil and nice. Mind your P and Qs. Look at what is at stake here..... your son. You both love him, don't forget that. Whenever she says things keep telling yourself, I love my son and I love my wife. <P>I can not give you legal advise. But remember to also be nice to the doggies. <P>Jo, says the calvary is coming from d/d. Keep looking out west. I hear the ground rumbling......<P>L. <P>L.

Dave,<P>I'm with Orchid .<P>Most of us aren't relationship experts, but we've educated ourselves and may have something worth listening to regarding relationship issues. Regarding legal issues most of us may not be much help.<P>It seems to me that you have no problem with Plan B except WRT possible legal issues if it comes to divorce. Steve H. has a lot of experience with folks in Plan B, and this is a case where lots of practical experience seems like it will be really helpful. However, Steve can't be expected to be an expert in law in every state plus other countries, so an attorney's advice is critical.<P>I'd suggest getting legal feedback on what you should and shouldn't do then getting Steve's advice on tailoring a modified Plan B in light of the attorney's advice.<P>Sorry, I guess I'm passing the buck to the experts. Speculation as to ending Plan B due to possible legal consequences in Maryland is far removed from any of my areas of competence.<P>I'll just say that I do think you should be "prepared for war", as some suggest. However, unlike your wife, don't tip your hand. Try to keep her your friend, not your enemy.<P>Steve

While joint custody is normally granted if requested by either party unless there is some kind of abuse, I personally would avoid giving her ammunition to use against you down the road. I like Plan B, but maintaining an ongoing, strong relationship with your children is a more important goal than saving your marriage, IMO. It is also more achievable and more within your control.<P>If it were me, I'd drop the Plan B and go toward limited contact, kids issues only. It will be harder for you to do that successfully, but you're a pretty tough fellow : ). Also, I recommend visiting the Divorce Busters site and reading up on Last Resort.<P>

Talk to Steve, talk to your lawyer, get all your ducks in a roll, & be as nice, & co operative as you can when you have to deal with her.<P>thinking about you, keep thinking in a few days you will be at the beach.

All the advice you've been given is good - I've really nothing more to add except that I'm pulling for you!!<BR>Just a show of support!

HI WAT,<BR>seems plan b is not ideal for your situation.<BR>WIll you please educate me....what is it that you want? Where do you want to be in a few yrs? <BR>(((hugs))) cl

Lots of folks here echoing my reply to you on the other thread to counsel with your attorney, Plan B for the relationship with your wife and Plan A for the co-parenting. But, heck, I forgot to say call Steve!!! <P>Desiree<P>------------------<BR>"Life is made up, not of great sacrifices or duties, but of little things in which smiles and kindnesses and small obligations, given habitually, are what win and preserve the heart and secure comfort."<P>Sir Humphry Davy<BR>

Thanks all for the feedback. Thanks Sheryl for the DD link.<P>CL - what do I want in a few years? Happiness and a loving relationship in a loving family. My first choice is for this to be with my current wife and family. In the near term what I want is just a chance with my wife. A good ol try to see if our relationship can be salvaged. So far, I haven't had a say, although snl would argue that I've been speaking all along and I've failed. This was the basis for my MB name - worthatry. Too powerful a choice, snl? <P>I had pretty much already formulated the strategy to show everything to my attorney - MB stuff, all my correspondence to my wife, all my hard evidence, etc. I had already described all of this to him and he is well aware that I don't want a divorce, although he doesn't understand my logic - he's never dealt with a BS who wanted anything BUT divorce. I intend on following up on STL's info regarding his former attorneys, so I'm not adverse to switching. My approach with attorneys is to just have them give legal advice - I do all the thinking. <P>Because my wife's attorney didn't get the wording quite right in the letter regarding communication, I assume she (the attorney) wasn't working from a copy of my Plan B letter, i.e., she was preparing the letter from a verbal description from my wife. So the attorney is likely getting filtered info.<P>In the meantime, I'll generate a financial summary of all expenses to show where we stand and request half of the re-mortgage (removing her name) fee from my wife. It won't be pretty for her. I'll send copies to my attorney.<P>I will try to set up something with Steve ASAP, I'm gone all day today (Friday, 8/3) and Monday thru Thursday next week, but maybe a session with Steve from a beach chair would provide a new perspective. <P>My Plan A had evolved into essentially communication regarding only <son> anyway. Plan B was mostly symbolic from my wife's vantage point. I see it now as a power play to her. She reacted by upping the stakes. It's like all she read in the letter was that she couldn't enter my house and I didn't want to talk to her anymore. Nothing else registered.<P>I expect her next reaction will be a charge that I'm harrasing her friends because I sent a copy to OM per SAA and Steve's advice.<P>So, all of this was a reaction by her to Plan B. Guess we shouldn't be surprised. An argument can be made that it worked as intended on her, but we didn't foresee a legal response. Take away the legal stuff and what do we have? I'd say I got precisely what I wanted - an impact on her about reality. Am I correct?<P>Perhaps my next MB (non legal) move should be to send another letter, modifying only the communication specifics in the original Plan B letter. The communication aspect with regards to our son seems to be the only legal pitfall. Restore that, square up the finances, and I disarm her legally. Am I missing something?<P>But back to the Plan B results so far on her. What does her reaction mean, once we get past the legal aspects? Am I correct that all this means it got what was desired? An emotional reaction? Steve predicted she would be hopping mad. The indirect evidence seems to confirm this.<P>Dave (WAT)<p>[This message has been edited by worthatry (edited August 03, 2001).]

Dave,<BR>think you might right. wow it is too early to type.<P>

Dave:<P>I vote for discussing this with Steve and your lawyer. But here are the facts as I see them:<P>1. You have physical custody of your children. That's a huge plus on your side.<P>2. You don't want to screw this custody situation up by doing anything that the courts might construe as uncooperative or illegal.<P>3. You still want your marriage.<P>OK---Plan B has two major goals: The first is to protect your lovebank from further withdrawals by your wife. Frankly---you're not doing so hot on that. The second is to give your wife a dose of reality, and to remove any "need-meeting" that you might be doing.<P>So, with those goals in mind, I think you can have "civil" discussions with your wife concerning the issues she brought up with the kids. I still think it would be best to do this via email---it's a verifiable trail, and it will not meet any conversational needs she may have. You want to avoid adversarial issues right now---it's not a goal of Plan B to beat her up. But you don't want to be forced into daily communication either. And she doesn't appear to be at a point where Plan A would do you a whole lot of good---so I wouldn't revert to that.<P>If this ends up in court, I would assume that you have enough evidence and a lawyer that will portray her as the adulterous slut-wife who abandoned her husband and children. Because she HAS left without the kids, that will be the primary deciding factor in the custody fight. Your lawyer can advise you there, and of course, there are no guarantees---but I think you're in pretty good shape.<p>[This message has been edited by K (edited August 03, 2001).]

Dave:<P>In addition to my responses on your other threads: the dogs are becoming more of an issue, one which your wife (via her lawyer) is using as a device.<P>Lose the dogs.<P>Godspeed,<BR>STL

Dave,<P>I light of your current situation, I would say that you can modify Plan B slightly, and allow only minimal communication with her verbally (if necessary), but email for the most part. And Plan A during communications. I don't call it "suspending" Plan B myself, just doing what you have to do to ensure there aren't unnecessary legal hassles. But in reality, I don't think you have to do much to your Plan B, especially once you iron out some of these issues (finances, dogs, custody schedule, etc.). It should be smoother sailing at that point.<P>I guess this doesn't provide any new information. I do think that talking to Steve to get his perspective of how you merge the legal aspects that arise from this letter, with Plan B....is a good idea. I think that now, with this barrage of fire from her, it crosses the line and is more than just MB style concepts involved. It is a legal/custody issue now, and might have to be played a bit differently. Also, a talk with your lawyer to get thoughts of how the court would perceive the no-contact rules, to make sure they don't negatively impact you.<P>Finally, I keep thinking of your wife agreeing that "it didn't have to come to this". I think this is really her way of firing back at your Plan B, which you suspect anyway. She doesn't like it.

Dave,<P>I think that Rick has some good points.<P>Let's not lose sight of the fact that Plans A & B aren't sacred in and of themselves. They are a strategy to accomplish some goals, such as showing your spouse that you are a better alternative than the OP, preserving your love, showing your spouse a taste of what it will be like if you finally divorce, etc. A modified Plan B may make it a little harder to accomplish its purposes, but not impossible. Just because you can't do a totally pure one doesn't mean that you shouldn't try to reduce contact as much as possible while communicating when necessary.<P>I think she'll get the point, and you'll benefit from thinking about her and being in contact with her as little as possible.<P>Again, more information on legal ramifications is needed before drawing any firm conclusions as to the best course.<P>Have fun on your trip, and try not to think too much about this stuff.<P>Steve

HI WAT,<BR>I thought you wanted the marriage, but then read some statements and was a bit confused. Thank you for the clarification.<BR>Agree with K that the two of you seem like adversaries. There are times this cannot be avoided, but maybe keep them at a minimum? You have to take the first step....she is not going to do it. Business like is fine, but curt is not.<BR>gotta run-away for the weekend with h!!! aloha, cl