I am at a total loss...My husband's OW is a friend that he plays volleyball with, works out with, stays out late drinking with. He says he hasn't had sex with her, but it's only a matter of time. She separated from her husband last year, has a 4 y.o. daughter and since last summer she and my husband have grown closer together. He used to invite her everywhere with us and I tolerated her for his sake, but she never put any effort into being my friend. It's clear to me and others that she wants him for herself. I did blow up at both of them (on her birthday!) and since then she is very cold to me or I don't see her much at all-but he continues. I've told him & the counselor has told him that he needs to make some decisions in his life as to what is important-his friendship with her our the pain he causes me.<P>He has never talked to her about her bad treatment of me and her disrespect for me & our marriage-he says nothing to her just lets it all go and then i'm mean to her when i complain. We went to Hawaii with another couple and the husband invited her to go (even though he told me on a seprate ocassion he didn't like what he saw between them)! My H, thankfully, told her it probably wasn't appropriate for her to be there and she got mad at him because she didn't understand why.<P>He slept in the same hotel room with her during a week-long vball tournament that his MEN'S team competed in & she tagged along and I couldn't go because of work. I asked him not to before he left, and he did anyway. He has shared a room with her and another female at a weekend vball tournament. I didn't go that tournament because it was mother's day & the 1-year anniversary of my uncles death. I do beleive him when he says he hasn't had sex with her, but it is only a matter of time. They stay in the same hotel, they get drunk, and he's mad at me--it could happen. But yet, he gets mad when I tell him that I worry it could happen because he says I'm accusing him of having an affair when he's not.

DB, First of all, don't believe anything he says. If in fact it is an EA, then you have to act quickly and start Plan A to show him your changes and meet his needs. I would be so quick to assume that there is not a PA going on though. He has slept in the same room and traveled with her on numerous occasions over the last year. If I were a betting man, I would say there is a good chance it's physical. Just assume the worse because he is in a fog and can't see the lights. He will tell you anything as long as he can get away with it. What is the history about the relationship? Give us some more details about the situation. Meanwhile, read all you can on this site and start implementing the principles. It's tough at first, but rememeber it's not only for him but yourself as well. You have many people in here going through similiar circumstances, just hang in there and keep us updated!<BR>GC

I agree with gdc. I am sorry for what you are going through. I know it hurts like CRAZY!!! <P>Come here and vent your feelings and frustrations. Don't blow up at your H. I'm glad you are in counseling too.<P>Learn all you can about Plan A, Emotional Needs, and Love Busters. THey are your keys to survival!<BR><P>------------------<BR>Faith1<P>"Then Jesus answered, 'Woman, you have great faith! Your request is granted.'"<BR>Matt 15:28

The situation is this: They were vball acquaintances but didn't know each other that well until after our basement flooded last summer. The entire basement (& our bedroom) was ruined (long story). We had to rebuild the basement from scratch. Her H is a carpenter & provided invaluable help. She worked on the basement with her H and my H because she is experienced with it. I'm not familiar with tools, or drywall, etc. so I wasn't really much use to them. Meanwhile, they plopped their daughter in front the of the tv & I would find things upstairs to sort through while I kept an eye on her. My H began to resent me because he felt I wasn't doing enough to help out. <P>She & my H began playing vball together and would stay out late (1 am) at a bar afterwards because she didn't want to go home to her H. Her marriage was on the rocks and she had plans to divorce her H. They began drinking together 3-4 times a week. Sometimes I went with them, but I felt like the 3rd wheel. I felt akward because they would tease and flirt with each other in front of me.<P>They are physically closely matched-same level of competition, same passion for vball, & now they work out at the gym for 2 hours a day 3 days a week before vball. I play vball too but not at the same level.<P>I began to stress my dislike for the situation around Nov. last year & we started going to counseling. We didn't like her & stopped & he didn't want to go back. Things have gotten so bad that I've persuaded him to see another one-and I LOVE her.<P>He continues to let the situation get worse. He defends her when I point out things that she does. I've told him that other vball people think they are having an affair and he dismisses it as "gossip". Many friends approached me because they didn't like what they saw when I wasn't around-the sexual innuendo jokes, the flirtations, the fact that I wasn't there. Many people are angry with her for her role in this and very angry with him for not putting a stop to it.<P>For HER birthday, he arranged (with 2 other girlfriends that I know/am actually friends with) to have a male stripper come to the vball club. She was raised Jehovah Wittness and whined to him about how she never had a bday party. He asked me if I would help decorate and I did for HIM (stupid me). At the SECOND party for her that he arranged too, a group of us went out dancing and he fawned all over her all night. My husband tells me all the time that he hates dancing, but for her bday he was so excited about going. I exploded at the both of them and told them they spend way too much time together. Since then she is very cold to me, doesn't say too words to me (and I even called her in the morning to apologize because I felt terrible for making her cry). Other friends there said she got sick all over the bathroom floor at the club and cried and cried about losing my H as a friend.<P>For MY bday (2 weeks ago) I sent out the evites for a movie night at our house, bought myself a cheesecake, took the day off from work, cleaned the house, bought the groceries. He said he'd be home by 5:30 & guests were coming at 7. He arrived at 6:30 with a cake and a card. He told me later that he was home at 6 (I was in the basement) & realized that he forgot my bday & and went back out to the store to get the cake & card. THEN he went to bed early while guests were still in the house. The gift he gave me was a necklace we ordered for me back in MARCH when we went to Hawaii-so basically NO effort went into planning my party. Plus, I asked him to meet me for lunch & he invited 2 of his co-workers.<P>BTW, I'm 32 my H is 31 and she's 29<P>[This message has been edited by deepbluesea (edited August 03, 2001).]<p>[This message has been edited by deepbluesea (edited August 03, 2001).]

HI, DBS...<BR>I'm Winny and I've been around here since this past March. Welcome to this wonderful site, and I hope that you continue to read all of the material offered here, and to come share and vent all you want. This site has helped me through the worst time of my life: my H had an EA, and I was sure he was going to end our marriage. I started Plan A four months ago and things are much, much better between us now.<P>OK..'nuff about me, just wanted to introduce myself to you, and to welcome you. NOW...what amazes me about your situation is that like so many others I've read here on this site, your spouse is clearly showing you that you are NOT "numero uno" with him, and those blinders you're wearing have got to go! I know that you HATE seeing what you think you are seeing and will try to rationalize it to make it more digestible, so to speak. But, that is only putting a bandaid on a bleeding gash, DBS. It isn't going to hold you for long--trust me in this. <P>If I ever knew my H spent the night in a hotel with another female, I'd pitch a fit. Were you agreeable to this arrangement, and if so, why? Consider these three words: desire, location, and opportunity. That's the recipe for most crimes and most certainly for illicit sexual affairs. How on earth did you convince yourself that he did NOT have sex with this bimbo? They had the opportunity...they were together at a prime location...and they certainly have desire for one another. Let's add one more factor into the equation: YOU were not there. Wow! Talk about the perfect setup!<P>Deep, you need to read and really study the material here on MB site. I beg you to do so. At the very least, it's good info for marriage in general. It just could save yours. I know that it's very painful to accept the fact that your spouse could do this to you, but infidelity happens to more people than you'd ever realize.<P>Take a few deep breaths, go back to the mainpage of this site, and start reading Dr. Harley's articles ASAP. There are a lot of good folks on this site who will help you through this ordeal because we've "been there", too, and want to help.<P>Good luck, keep on posting here...<BR>Winny

dbs, <BR>I am sorry you are going through this. I have been there myself. My H said the same things, did the same things, was critical of me in front of OW and defended her always. <BR>H said it was a business relationship only, was offended that I would suggest an A. <BR>Fast forward to the present. H's PA was two years long and started 3 yrs ago. My instincts were right on the mark. H tried to make me feel guilty for suspecting what was actually going on. :eyerolls:<BR>H also had a few overnights, business of course, with OW. I now know all the details, and business was secondary each time. <BR>It is a hurtful passage, but time has helped, and the OW has moved away. H is once again the devoted man he had been for 38 yrs. I really hate the OW, she is married but had done this with other married men and knew exactly what she was doing this time. She was never a friend to me, not even a nice aquaintance.<BR>Read here, and try and get H to 'come clean' so you can start to heal. Right now sounds as though he is so deep in the fog that it may see like a futile attempt, but show him you love him and try not to LB.<BR>LAD

Thanks for your kind words, both of you. First off, I asked him the sleeping arrangments a week before he left for this trip. He pitched a fit claiming I did not trust him and he wasn't making the arrangements-one of the other guys was. I told him that I did NOT want him sharing a room with her. I was already pissed that she was even going because there was NO reason for her to go. Why would she take a week off from work to go watch a vball tournament in WI (we live in MD) and pay airfare plus hotel when she has no real reason to be there? I was adamant about it too. He said he would "try" not to share a room with her. Anyway, when I called late one night-she was in the room so I pretty much knew they were sharing. So, we got in a huge fight when he got back.<P>I don't think I have blinders on. I'm seeing a lot more than he realizes and he doesn't like it. For my part though, I was stepping aside and letting her "have" him because of my own uncomfortableness in dealing with conflict. I stopped going to watch him/them play vball and I didn't go waterskiing when another friend invited us plus her. I realized that this was stupid because I was just avoiding conflict while they get to keep seeing each other.<P>However, we had a HUGE fight last Thurs. and he "broke up" with her on Fri. He told her he couldn't be her friend anymore. Of course, he's too chicken to tell her to her face so he Instant Messaged her. She asked him "Is that what you really want?" (interesting dig on her part, I thought). He didn't play in their scheduled tournament on Sat., he won't be working out with her, and he won't be playing vball with her at all. Now I feel stuck-I don't know what to do or how to act. I've basically "made" him give up his life to be home with me and feel responsible for anything that could go wrong. What should I do now?? I don't believe that everything will be hunky dorey now and life will be an uphill battle but I just don't know how to proceed to get things better.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by deepbluesea:<BR><B> What should I do now?? I don't believe that everything will be hunky dorey now and life will be an uphill battle but I just don't know how to proceed to get things better.</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P><BR>HI, Deep!<BR>You don't realize it right now, but this is wonderful news!! Something has happened that caused your H to put the brakes on with "her", and this is a great opportunity for you to get going with Plan A. Have you read about Plan A- Plan B yet, Deep? If not I IMPLORE you to do so ASAP. Believe me, it can work and in your case (with him breaking up with her), you have an excellent chance to make it succeed.<P>Basically, Plan A means to dig in and start paying attention to the WS's emotional needs. When we don't meet our partners' EN's, they will find someone else who will meet them. That's what starts most A's, according to Dr. Harley, and I am with him 100% on that one. Please, please believe me when I say that the best plan of action is to NOT focus on the OW (other woman), but on yours and his relationship. Put thoughts of her, including any bitterness, hurt, anger, etc., you may be feeling right now out of your mind as best as you can. Then, have some good talks with your H and ask him questions that will help you to find out what EN's he needs met, and that you were possibly not meeting. <P>I did this with my H, and once I got him talking, he really opened up to me and I found out some very important things I never realized before. You have to fill your mind with love and loving thoughts towards him, and try to toss out any negative thoughts/feelings for the time being. I know how hard that is to do, but it can be done. Part of you wants to yell, rant, rave and all that because of your hurt but that is not the way to go. Just concentrate on HIM, and on meeting his emotional needs, and some pretty great things can happen.<P>Come here and vent all you need to, it's a wonderful pressure release. Just please get started on Plan A as soon as you can and hold on. Really, Deep, you are in a better position right now than you realize.<P>God bless and sending many prayers your way,<BR>Winny <BR>

Winny-I do realize this is wonderful news. I've read Plan A/B but don't understand it completely. I know that the first step is for the WS to break off all contact with the OW (which he has done) but I am not sure exactly what I do? Your guidance is helpful. This week has been tough because he is moping around the house and is very angry with me. We are both in the stage of Withdrawl, but I started reading Love Busters & His Needs/Her Needs last night. I saw some things that I need to start changing in myself so I can lead him out of withdrawl and back to me. But it is hard when he is angry all the time.<P>The worst part is that he got laid off 3 weeks ago so the timing couldn't be more awful. He is upset because he has "no friends, no job, and the marriage is not working". I'm not sure how to meet his EN when he's barely speaking to me. How can I get him to open up?<P>However, I am very proud of myself today. We started to get into an argument on the phone and we weren't getting anywhere, so I said that we were never going to agree and that we should hang up before we escalate and say things we don't mean.

My H told the OW "goodbye" because I "forced" him to do it. He asked me (in a fight) what would make me happiest and I said if she disappeared. Out of spite he said he'd get rid of her. When I said he'd resent me later, he said he wouldn't (yeah, right). Now we're in this emotional stalemate where he barely speaks to me and I don't know how to handle my emotions, let alone his. She had become such a big part of his life that he says now he has no friends. He told me last week (before the fight) that they share the same "passions in life." Basically, they are both competitive, like to do the same things. Now, I feel as if I've ripped his life apart by "making him" give her up.<P>I was sad for so long because she played on every vball leage with him, they stayed out late drinking/playing vball, he took her biking on the difficult trails that I couldn't really do, she went water skiing with him, etc. . I'm a much more cautious person and not very athletic. So, how can I share recreational activities with H if he wants to compete all the time?<P>One other thing I didn't mention before is that they got tattoos together-she wanted one and he said he'd get one if she did. Seeing that tattoo every day hurts me deeply. They didn't get the same tattoo-but now they have a common bond that I don't share. What bothers me about her tattoo is that it's a scorpion-my H's sign. At first I thought it could be her daughter's sign, but it's not. Of course, I can't ask her what it is.<P>How can I compete with someone who shares the same passions my H has? We used to do things in the community together, but his drive for vball took him away from me. She was only too happy to encourage him to play more and more vball.<P>I just need to be strong-but don't know how. I started taking Effexor in April and it has taken the edge off, but I still cry and feel depressed but maybe not as deeply. It will be hard when I see OW at vball in a couple of weeks. I'm still going to play-but the difference is I play 1 night a week and come home afterwards. I'm not obsessed like they are.