This started with my sensativity to my wife going to the public swiming pool by her self wearing a bikini. I'll be totally honest -- I'm not real comfortable about it & it causes some anxities (I know, so what else is new with me!!)<P>Quote from T-L-C:<BR>"However, I do also see fault with your idea that she should wear what you'd like her to wear and not what she is obviously comfortable with wearing. I hope I've got the body at 49 for a bikini! I have a hard time wearing one in public at 29!<BR>And the comment that she may be "inviting problems" by her choice of swimwear, I can't help but associate that with the folks who say that women who are raped were just asking for it by wearing skimpy clothing ... COME ON!" End quote<BR>TLC,<BR>Thanks for your insights! You might guess that I agree that she was a willing participant Just a little concerned she is setting her self up for next fallen temptation -- Remember, I'm still in a state of some paranoia & I am better today with my anxieties as my W & I have been communicating much better of late. I joined her at the pool with her bikini & she does looook GOOD!! But I certanily don't want to be a closed minded, controlling, kind of person you alluded to in your rebuttal to my feelings about her bikini trips to the pool by herself. She is very attract & looks really hot & I love the way she looks, it's just that right now at least, I am still working on some trust issues & I do feel a little uncomfortable with her dress like this -- I don't want others loving her body quite so much.<BR>Please believe me, when I say that I believe no woman deserves to get raped no matter how she is dressed. <BR>My wife's libido increased dramatically about a year & a half ago. We averaged intimacy about 6 times a year for the first 28 years of our marriage(I'm actually being generous for many of those years). We now average two times a day. If we miss a day or two we make up for it with three or four. I believe that her decrease in estrogen production has made some of her male sex hormones become more dominant. <BR>It is a scientific fact that when two people meet initially & are attracted to each other, certain chemicals are released in the brain. This creates a good feeling & sensation. These Endorphins have similar pain killing effects as morphine. <BR>My W is definitely more in the mood when she knows guys are paying attention to her -- I now know she was in heightened state of sexuality when she came home after being with one of these guys, which of course was a total focus of special attention.<BR>Like you described liking to be noticed, my wife has also liked this -- I believe she likes it even more now & these feelings (chemical reactions) escalated with the initial encounter with first OM, (which started with flirting in our back yard, four days after they first met, which was actually when flirting began), to point she gave in to these heightened sexual feelings & these heightened feelings escalated with the game she began & it become a cycle hard to break -- By the way these chemical reactions & infatuation feelings for another can last up to six months, then these new feelings for the person wear off. <BR>I can feel pretty certain that she will eventually be "hit-up on" again, I am just anxious that she may not even know how she'll handle this next rush when someone makes advances more than a glance, smile & friendly "Hello" ?? I just think an attractive lady with a great body & the body is very visibly displayed in provocative way, is more likely to attract the attention of a horny guy, more than if the dress was not as provocative?? I never used to have such feelings, my recent experience has changed my current thinking about this. I may be all wet, just my current perception.<BR>Food for thought:<BR>If someone were very allergic to poison ivy, shouldn't their walk through the woods but a little different than person w/o such allergies? <BR>Double Standard??<BR>I like to wear slacks and a golf shirt for casual attire. My W prefers me to wear jeans & a V neck, colored shirt. If I refused to wear what she liked me to wear it would create problems, she would be upset & it would be a lovebust. Is this a form of a double standard?<BR>How would you explain this??? <BR>I see logic & don't mind wearing what my wife likes me to wear even if it's not my first choice - but this begs the question, for her to wear something I prefer, is this really so bad?? Does she always have to be the taker??<BR>POJA??<BR>Hope I'm not being too weird.<BR>Thanks for insights -- interesting points to ponder huh?<BR>Peace be with you?<BR>HH<BR>

hmmmm... pondering... may get back to this one....<P>I guess the first question/ thought that comes to mind is... if one spouse clearly feels strongly about the way the other is dressed, we should be willing to accomodate, unless we have a strong reason why not.... if you hated jeans because they are uncomfortable, good reason to not wear them? DO you like to look nice - slacks and golf shirt? Why does she feel strongly about wearing a bikini? because she looks good? for whom? and why? Can she still look good in a one-piece - or a more modest 2-piece? SHe knows a woman's sexy body turns on men visually... I'm not sure why she would want to make you so uncomfortable, but .. then you should be proud to be married to her too..<P>geee..... I'm a lot of help. I can see both sides I guess. ponder ponder ponder

I can relate because my wife does the same thing. There is no good reason if a woman is married to try to attract the attention of all the other men and make her husband jealous. Why do this? My wife often wants to go to school wearing very sexy party dresses. One day while driving her, I just turned around and drove her back home and asked her to change. She was angry I did that. But later she told me she did that because I was angry at her. So she wore her dress specifically to feel good about herself but won't quite admit it was to attract other men. However her affair was the result of the same feelings. So you are normal in your feelings and are not wrong.

Faith1,<BR>Thanks for reply. I don't mind jeans & if she like me to look a certain way, she has good taste & I appreciate her insights & I want to please her -- I have never knowingly done things I know were upsetting to her.<BR>She tells me more or less, that my anxities are my problem, that I'm a psycho. Her mom is totally dominated by her dad and I think this has motivated her to not in any way be dominated by a man & she has always had a strong will to show independence & not be influenced by me. She tells me that I can't "put her in a box" -- she more or less says than she is not going to cheat again so therefore I have no right to dictate to her my preferences for how she dresses -- sounds pretty confincing, huh?<BR>She was also very convincing about hiding her secret life for 6 months during her A's -- she said "it is just not the kind of thing you discuss with your husband." DAAA<BR>She must think I'm a really nieeve when she trys to convince me that their is nothing sexual about the way she dresses ?? <BR>She says these things make her fell better about herself. I can never talk more than 3 minutes about this beforeshe explodes in hostile attact on me being controling.<BR>It seems to me that this feeling good about herself comes more from the attention she receives by wearing these things than by the things themself ??<BR>Thanks!<BR>HH

Count down to Concert:<BR>Potential triggers – Concert is popular Country & Western -- she described the two OM as “Rednecks” (God love em – just don’t be messen with my W!) – We don’t leave for another 4 hours, but she’s "locked" her self in room with her clothes and full length mirror. You can bet she is working hard to get the look she wants. <BR>The couple we are going with are very conservative - Perhaps my W will dress on conservative side?? (she normally does when we go out with them). You’ll remember my W already put bug in ear of other women about wearing a Tank Top – her Husband did not think she had one – my W said they (her and other couple) were just kidding. I can live with a “conservative” tank – it’s just the string strap, low cute version that makes me a little anxious – who knows, maybe I will get used to it?!! Somehow the glances & gulking at my W when she’s dressed that way seem a little different – a touch of lustfulness, that is different than when she gets looks when she is dressed on more conservative side – maybe it’s me, but the looks seem different – admiration of beauty vs. look of lust?! Has anyone else noticed this difference?<P>I’ve learned recently to appreciate C & W – It’s just that my W happened to kind of become obsessed with it when she was seeing the two red necks !…. Hmmm she said she did not know if they liked that music…She does not always put high value on being completely truthful, particularly if it hinders something that she wants. <BR>Understand, I am not against people that drive pick ups & chew smokeless tobacco & listen to C & W – Chris Foxworthy has taught us that we all have some of these characteristic and liking. I can be a little anxious if I sense she’s wanting to attract attention from guys of this type, cause she had confessed that she had a real obsession for this kind of guy. Is she really over this general fixation, I can’t be sure. I think I’ll have better idea after this concert!<P>I am not feeling at all anxieties right now – I am hopefully going to be laid back & enjoy the festivities!<BR>Peace, <BR>HH<P>

Special Attention<P>Perhaps the reason I obsess about the dress thing is that this seemed to be important element on D/D date. She spent $200 at the limited two nights prior for the occasion (She said one top she was going to take back ). She said when they alone initial time he just held her (I suppose hugs as well!) and told her how good she looked & how hot she was! The skirt was no shorter than others I have described that she wears I am guessing – 3” –4” above the knees.<BR>I have always filled her with lots of compliments – she made a point of saying compliments from other guys have different, (special!) effect – means more! This is what she said 20 years ago with first D/D! She would say her friends have said same thing – I never said this, but it seems pretty obvious that if compliments feels good this does not mean everyone else jumps into sack with guy?!!<P>She is still primping – she has to go to grocery before we leave!<P>Now more obsessing today, I promise!<BR>Peace,<BR>HH<BR>

HH,<P>I felt I had to reply to this one, basically because I'm experiencing something similar and because I don't think your feelings have anything to do with what she wears but more because of what's in the back of your mind.<P>Ok, here's what happened to me in a nutshell. Friday night we do a BBQ at our place for the parents of the kindergarten that our two boys go to. Sounds tame. Around 20 people came and around 10:30 the BBQ explodes into some hot dancing. Well, my W loves to dance and she spends practically the whole night dancing with two of the guys. Now, the other wives dance on their own or with their hubbies. Mine spends the night dancing with these two guys.<P>Around 1:00 in the morning, my son wakes up because of the noise so I take him back to bed. Takes me an hour to get him to sleep. When I come back down around 2:00 am, I walk into a darkened room, slow music, everybodys gone but 4 people. My wifes dancing slow with one of the gus, the other gus is dancing with another room.<P>So, I think there's something wrong with this situation, I don't think this behaviour is acceptable. I think it's asking for trouble. My W doesn't think it's wrong, she think it's only having fun. <P>Does that sound similar? what to do? At the moment I have one of two answers - one I'm implementing, the other I'm considering.<P>

Freddy,<BR>With your situation, it seems very obvious to me that your W's action are very inappropiate!! To me at least, BIG TIME!<BR>My W has been the dominant one in our relationship & I have definatly been the giver & her the taker. She gets really upset when she does not get her own way, which includes any form of critism or any opinion that is different from hers.<BR>The Dobson Book "Tough Love" helped me a lot after I had asked my W to leave. Similar to plan B -- She returned Feb. 10, 2001<BR>She went with me to see my C today & I feel a lot better because it is signal my W is willing to work on marriage & most importantly on basis of some formality & not just on her basis (which was "Get Over it" & let's move on). Another advantage of Joint C or even C for ourselves is that it offers a qualified "second opinion" that I believe in my situation is very helpful to balance out the little power struggles of who is right or most importantly what is a fair approach & observation about these kinds of issues.<BR>My W was gettting extremely annoyed about when I would bring up topics of recovery in my terms and/or an issue I would make about her actions -- The C made a point that perhaps she should not take responsibility for my recovery, meaning to determine when I should get over it & that it is very appropiate to talk about the A & the causes, ect.-- for my recovery at least, which dictates hers as well. <BR>Best of luck in your situation!<BR>My prayers are with you!<BR>HH

Dear HH,<BR>Yes, I think that your wife wanting you to dress the way she wants you to (in order to please HER), and your wife wanting to dress the way she wants to dress (in order to please HERSELF), and not taking into consideration what you would prefer for her or yourself to wear IS a double-standard. Especially if you guys have not reached a compromise, for example, maybe take turns deciding your outfits.<P>It sounds like she wants you to be less conservative, and that's fine as long as you enthusiatically agree!<P>If she is not dressing for YOU, her husband, then WHO? That goes both ways. IMHO, married couples should be dressing to please each other. Perhaps you should go shopping together with her in the future, if she would agree to that. Perhaps she needs to understand that as a married person, she should be dressing for YOU as well as you dressing up for her? Oh well, that's just how I feel. I know others would disagree saying how we are our own person.<P>It's just that if we wanted to be "our own person" then why get married? Why sign up to be part of a team and act like an individual? Marriage is about letting go of me, me, me, and my, my, my, and embracing we, we, we, and our, our, our... Right?<P>I once heard a preacher break down the 6th commandment into the manner of dress we choose. In other words, based on Jesus' description of adultery (that whoever looks at another person of the opposite sex with lustful thoughts has already committed sin in their hearts--paraphrasing), when we get dressed in such a way as to arouse the opposite sex, we are guilty of breaking this commandment.<P>That's pretty deep stuff if you ask me... After all, God is looking at our heart motivations... People judge what we do, God judges the thoughts and intents behind what we do.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by BINthereDUNthat:<BR><B>Dear HH,<BR>That's pretty deep stuff if you ask me... After all, God is looking at our heart motivations... People judge what we do, God judges the thoughts and intents behind what we do.</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Thanks for reply!<BR>It is very good & is very helpful!<BR>Recent Anxieties 08-13-01<P>The concert went well -- I had some minor anxieties, but for most part they were self imposed kinds of things -- I do not feel I am prejudice, but she described these two OM as rednecks & she confessed she was generally obsessed with this type & was checking out every guy in pick up, but who is to say she still feels this way -- I am going to assume not.<BR>Our Joint C went well. She was open * honest about several things & she has agreed to continue. The C made a point regarding my recovery & my W general attitude that I should get over it & not bring these issues up (broad generalization),that she should not take responsibility for my recovery & that we do need to take about the A if nothing else perhaps in C sessions.<BR>We were out of town visiting family & attended a small town festival. There is small tavern in which my W wanted to go in for a drink. I was anxious, but I felt pressure that this was really important to her (A big thing to her is that we are able to go out -- the bar scene seems to be a big deal to her. I felt if I declined she was going to be upset -- I wanted to go to other restaurant bar my friend owned in which I knew was more calm & my W got upset, said she saw a lot of people going into other bar (these are across the street from each other & are in the middle of this festival)she was pouting all the way. As it happened it was closed. We walk into this bar & it is packed -- <P>We see a class mate of my W's who is a childhood friend of mine. He and his W sit with us. Spouses across from each other His S next to me & vice versa -- we have drinks - I go to bathroom & comeback & they are talking about getting shots -- a kind my W had mentioned she likes -- a kind she started liking when she went out with her two divorced cousins last fall & Christmas (My anxiety levels are increasing as crazy stuff tends to happen when she drinks). She is being "miss cordiality" & making gestures & touching guys arm several times with gestures. I come back from another bathroom break & notice my W's skirt with buttons up the front is hiked up a good bit & she is feeling & acting very outgoing, warm and real friendly --touchy feely type -- a general attitude she does not show towards me. One time with one of her comments she gives this guy a friendly wink to make a point of friendliness I guess, but I know I am feeling really uneasy & don't like the feeling. These are not sexy, suggestive conversations, just attitude thing --?? <BR>Later, walking home to my mom's, I explode on her & spill over with how she dresses and bikini thing & how she says she is victim in these kinds of things, but it seems to me that she is sending clear messages that she is open to advancements -- paraphrase here I was drunk & it got verbally hugely! <BR>I was extremely frustrated. Perhaps these things are 100% innocent on my W's part & I certainly don't like the feelings I get, but I just can’t seem to control them --?? <P>My reactions reinforce a theme my W brings up that I am too anxious & paranoid & that we just cannot go out! I know that if we don't have a social life our recovery is doomed. I have mentioned before that is going out mean going to single types bar??? This seems to be her focal point of having a good time ???<BR>I am trying to make up & we had sex, bit there the intimacy is lacking & she made comment that I don't like her -- I just did not feel like discussing it -- I think there is distinction between loving her & disliking some of her actions & attitudes -- more C needed!<BR>Thanks for checking in!!<P>Peace,<BR>HH

Thanks for everyone’s replies, I unfortunately do not have time to give specific attention to everyone’s responses – lots of good perspectives & I appreciate little pieces of indirect Humor as well!<P>Physical Attractiveness is an important need for W. As a part of my W’s new openness & honesty she recently told me that Physical Attractiveness is/was important to her & that I had let my weight get out of control & that was a problem for her to be attracted to me. I remember She had mentioned this to me during her A’s & has over the years always ragged me about being heavy. I remember one discussion a few years back (before she lost 35 pounds last year) where I pointed out that she had gained more weight since we got married than I had. Her answer was that she carried it better and mine collected around my waist – all of which is true. <P>I told her that I’m not going to be 40 again. She said she knows & that she perhaps puts too much emphasis on her own looks. She went on to say that she dresses the way she does, ect. to make herself feel good about herself. She disclosed in our joint counseling that a part of the A’s were a result of her vanity (OM aged 32 & 36 – her age 48).<P>She said in this most recent conversation that I do care how I look now (I’ve lost 25 lbs.) and that makes her feel good. We’re back to sex 2 x’s a day. I’m a little concerned that if I step off the tread mill for a few days her hormones will make her even more receptive to attention & potentially aggressive advancements – she does look hot! She still has attitude there is absolutely nothing wrong with how she dresses & acts – “it’s my problem – I’m paranoid.” In a blow up with her last Friday I mentioned her wearing bikini to swimming pool by herself & I did not like it. Yesterday she went to pool by herself, wearing bikini.<P>Yesterday when I got home She was very affectionate to me & I was not as anxious about her pool visit – I’m just wondering if she is now trying to placate me & still have thoughts of attracting attention from young hard bodies, thinking she won’t step over the line. But who can say that she won’t lose control again, like she said happened with initial contact & start of A’s?? “Simply feel to temptation”<P>On two separate occasions she has casually mentioned that she understands that some people have ongoing A’s & a happy marriage. I did not respond because I should think she knows that I do not feel that would be acceptable. Do you think I should be more direct & bring this up & clarify? Too much Lbing ??– would I be discouraging openness & honesty if I make an issue of things she says??<P>As you might imagine, this attitude does not give me a lot of confidence that long term some other younger hard body will not be tempting her again! This is my point about her dress and such a warm & friendly attitude with other guys, (what I observe when I am around) – it seems she is setting herself up for lots of flattery and potentially same problem as before. ??<P>When I have brought this Physical attractiveness up, she has since said she should not have said what she said about my weight & she has difficulty expressing her thoughts & I should forget those comments. I don’t want to bust her bricks, because she’ll soon not share her true feelings, yet I can’t help but to think this was big contributing factor to A’s & how do I gain any assurance this won’t be a repeat pattern, particularly if we don’t talk about it?!<P>Can you see why I have some anxiety?? Any suggestion on tact I could follow up with her??<P>Peace,<BR>HH<BR>