Guess I better date these dern things.<P>Wife came to fetch <son> a little bit ago. His shirt had no wrinkles, so I guess I'm instantly a terrific dad? .<P>She had called him earlier and said she'd be by to get him in about 25 minutes. Playing the legal game, she couldn't ask him to tell me that and I couldn't ask him what she said. Fortunately, he volunteered the info.<P>When he was ready, he asked me to go outside and shoot some hoops with him as he waited for her. He's really developing a soft touch with his onehanded shot.<P>In a few minutes, she drove up, I gave him a big hug, and walked into the garage, shutting the door behind me.<P>A minute later, she rings the doorbell and I open the door and she hands me a check for August childcare expenses - $280 for the au pair's stipend - at least the amount SHE thinks she owes. This is the very first time in a year that she's abided by the terms in this regard with the separation agreement she proposed. She doesn't know about the remaining childcare expenses she owes, for example the August amount for another $250 for repairs to the au pair mobile. She agreed to pay half of ALL childcare related expenses. I wouldn't have the au pair mobile if not for childcare.<P>Anyway, here is the short conversation that ensued:<P>Her: (after handing me her check for $280) Do you have my support payment?<P>By the separation, I owe her $170.61/month (note the .61) for child support which is independent from childcare. Seems silly that it's a separate amount. The amount is based on a simple calculation that is supposed to correct for our difference in salaries.<P>Me: I don't owe you any. Because childcare expenses are more, you always owe me money.<P>Her: What about the $500 dollars you owe me from my itemized list (back in February)?<P>She's correct in that SHE provided an itemized list in February - the only expense report she ever provided until just recently when she provided another. In her $500 list, which, btw, included recognition that in net, she always owes me on a monthly basis considering child support and child care expenses alone, she threw in a bunch of stuff that I am not obligated to pay for, e.g., <son's> clothes she bought. items like this are intended to be covered by the child support payment.<P>Me: You'll have a summarized itemized list from me tomorrow.<P>I then closed the door and she walked to her car.<P>In a minute, <son> came back in to get something he forgot. I quickly got out my checkbook and wrote a check for her for $170.61. When <son> went back outside, I followed him and handed my wife the check. She said "Thankyou" in that sickly sweet tone of voice that really means, "up yours."<P>It's obvious to me that she's being coached by her attorney. I can play that game, too, only better on the bottom line. At least in the near term, I expect we will both be dotting i's and crossing t's.<P>Previously, In Plan A, I gave her a LOT of leeway in financial matters. I paid the big school bills, au pair expenses, getting the au pair mobile repaired, the taxes, etc., knowing that eventually, I could recoup all of her portion because of the binding separation agreement. I did this in providing for the financial support EN. I never pestered her about what she owed - in fact, I only provided tax details because she wanted to have an "independent" accountant go over them to make sure I was being "fair." (According to her sister, this accountant friend raved about my record keeping and precise bottom line - of course, I never heard this from my wife - just got a check for the exact amount I said she owed me.)<P>I wish this hadn't gotten to a contest of wills and calculators. As I said in the other post, I'm sure she considers that I fired the openning salvo with the Plan B letter.<P>I apologize for being such a "taker" recently on the forum. I intend to return to "giver" status after the beach.<P>Dave (WAT)

Dave,<P>I don't have much to say right now, but I just wanted you to know that I read your post. Every day is something new isn't it. You just don't know what the outcome of any of this will be. Just hang in there and keep doing your best each day.<P>I'll talk to you later.<P>

Dave,<P>You are not being a "taker". Helping you is helping me. And I think we all feel this way. Plan B is very hard, esp at the on set. Just keep posting so we can be there for you.<P>Jo

Dave, <P>For your W, you done good. For your son, you are continuing to be a good dad. Nothing bad from today. You did what you needed to do. <P>Glad your son is doing good on his shots. Mine is getting better at riding his bike and now wants a dirt bike. Go figure these kids. <P>Have a nice time at the beach. Take a dip for me. I love the ocean......<P>See ya later.<BR>L.<P><BR>

Hi WAT. <P><<<<<<<<<<hugs>>>>>>><P>It sounded like you needed that. Y'no, don't worry whether or not your plan B letter instigated her behavior or not. It was time and you had to stop letting her leach off of you.<P>Steve was right, it does sound like her reaction was pure anger to your letter, and the only way she can think of getting back at you is to involve the lawyers, and unfortunately, your son.<P>Good luck to you. Keep us posted, k?<BR>HbH

It really isn't just dotting I's etc. It is kind of self protection too, don't you think! It sounds to me like you are doing really well on your plan B. I just want to let you know, it can work. I had to ask my H to leave for awhile after I discovered his affair. We did eventually reunite, and are doing well after two years. Somedays are still hard, but these guys here are great support!

[[[[[WAT]]]]]]....<P>Just keep doing what you have to do...I am reminded of something you told me...keep taking the higher road...<P>When the day is done, it is nice to be able to hold your head up and know "You done good." .<P>Cali<P>------------------<BR><I>Live Impeccably In Your Word.<BR>Don't Take Anything Personally.<BR>Make No Assumptions.<BR>Do Your Best Always. </I>

Hey Dave,<P>Thanks for dating the posts, it seems that if I leave town I will still be able to follow upon homecoming.<P>I'd say that the morning interaction went well. congrats.<BR>My son is also sharpening his b.ball skills. His latest obsession is with Reebok's Iverson shoes. Not to be found anywhere in town.<P>I think you should give her the extra 39cents to throw her and the attorney off. Be frivolous!<P>I'm glad that you can be a taker for a while. You've been doing the giver thing for so long (Plan A). <P>take care,<BR>cleo

Dave,<P>I have been reading this ongoing saga for awhile but never thought I had anything useful to contribute so have not posted. However, when reading this thread, I do have suggestion for you.<P>I think you are viewing this wrong. It is not a contest of wills. It is how things should have been handled from day one. Meticulous records, prompt payments, everything clear, business like, and honest. <P>I think that in your Plan A you were trying to help your W by not presenting bills as they came in, but you really actually hurt her. She didn't know how to budget and still doesn't. She needs to know what she owes when it occurs.<P>Now it seems to me, that your kindness in Plan A wasn't rewarded and man I can understand how you feel. But I think treating her as a separate woman capable of handling these business affairs will pay dividends. It shows you respect her and that you expect performance from her with regard to her obligations. You would expect no less from someone working on your house.<P>We often treat the people that work for us with more respect than we do our loved ones. It is odd, but it is sooo common.<P>So Dave, get your records straight. Get her latest bill sorted out to the both of your satisfaction, and apologize to her, for not doing it right from the start. Then make sure that every i&t is dotted as you would do for anyone working for you.<P>I am not sure that it will change her mind, but apologizing for not doing it right and then guarenteeing her that she will receive itemized expenses in a very timely manner in the future may clear the air.<P>I hope I am making sense to you. It seems straight forward to me, but I am not sure I am conveying what I mean. Respectful dealings done in a cordial manner. Good business, Dave. I think it might help in your case too.<P>God Bless,<P>JL

JL - it makes perfect sense. She used to be a rational, intelligent woman and monthly expenses should be a cake walk for her. In our marriage we had a very good "business" partnership, balancing needs and wants with the checkbook while facing some really tough financial challenges when wwe were fighting our son's disease. We had a very, very good practical oriented marriage.<P>I often looked at our relationship as a three legged stool with the legs being what I called the three "L's" - the practical, the emotional, and the physical. We were balancing on one leg for a long time during our son's illness and it finally tipped over.<P>I can practice what you recommend, although anything I do seems to get received with disdain. If my attempt to meet the financial support EN was counterproductive, oh well. I doubt it carried that much weight. The symbolic change may be more influencial - she has to reap what she sows and I won't be here as a safety net.<P>WAT

Dave,<P>Of course it will be received with disdain. The aliens still have her brain. But they don't have yours. So do it business like with an air of cordiality to it. It will help you with the lawyers, but more importantly it will help you keep all of this in perspective. <P>She isn't doing this for you or to you. So you can afford to keep everything clean and cordial. You are not trying to balance two men and a son, and the guilt of what you have done. She is. <P>Dave she is a lost adolescent and like anyone you can just sit and hope that they grow up. So get everything sorted out, presented, discussed and but keep it cordial.<P>Good luck, this is tough stuff, but I know you have what it takes to handle it.<P>God Bless,<P>JL

Thanks again, JL.<P>What's your view on how I should approach the response to her attorney's letter?<P>I see several options, one of which IS NOT my kneejerk response I posted the other day ("She declared war"). <P>1. Have my attorney query her attorney about what she's trying to do. What was the real purpose of that correspondence, given that there is very little factual truth in it? Offer to them that they may write another letter and we'll just forget about the first one.<P>2. Have my attorney respond with a very cordial, business-like answer, indicating that my obligations are up to date, and, btw, my wife is now in arrears (which she will be when she sees my financial summary), so please respond in kind and pay up.<P>3. Respond as in #2, and reiterate my willingness to reconcile, indicating that I never have wanted a divorce.<P>4. Conduct my interactions with my wife cordially and business-like, but turn my attorney loose to fight fire with fire. Believe me, I have a LOT more evidence and mud to sling than she realizes. See my mock reply in the other post for some examples.<P>WAT

Dave:<P>Talk to your attorney about what you would like the letter to convey: talk strategically here, but the underlying thing is: that since your wife resorted to corresponding via her lawyer, respond in kind. Think of it as a modified Plan B, with your attorney as the intermediary.<P>In your strategy planning with your attorney, also discuss Plan A/Plan B with him; in essence, convey the MB philosophy to him, and find out how/if it impacts any legalities (or legal niceties).<P>Praying for you and your family,<BR>enjoy the beach,<BR>Godspeed,<BR>STL

Dave,<P>You ask the hardest questions. <P>My answer would be get the name on the title changed. Make sure you are up to date on whatever.<P>Then prepare the itemized bill for her and discuss with her the one she presented to you.<P>After that, talk with your lawyer about the accusations she has made. I am surely no expert on this, but some of this is probably just the legal bluffing, huffing and puffing that goes on. Probably to get you to do what I mentioned above.<P>I would do that. Frankly, I think you are going to get divorce papers from her. I think you need to be prepared for a fight so I would talk with your lawyer. I am not sure that a response now is warrented, but preparation for a response sure is.<P>Dave, we have met and you sort of know me. I very very rarely fight, but when I do it is to the death. That is why I avoid fights. They are not worth my time unless I mean to wipe the other guy out. I have never lost.<P>I tell you this so that you can properly evaluate my advice. I would prepare to wipe her out, but I would not threaten, I would not do it until it is necessary. Frankly, if you do what my inclination is, there will never be a reconcilliation nor will there be much of a relationship between you and your then exW. That is not necessarily good for your son.<P>You see where I am going? My philosophy is hope for the best, plan for the worst and play it down the middle. In this case, do what you have agreed to do. Including presenting her with her share of the expenses. I would speak with the lawyer at length, but if I could I would avoid responding to the letter from her lawyer, unless your lawyer thinks you really need to in order to protect your relationship with your son.<P>As for ammunition, give it all to your lawyer. There is a tendency in our culture for a "measured" response. You start with small stuff and bring out the ever bigger stuff as the fight escalates. My personal feeling is if you've determined this a fight to the end, bring out the nuc. right now and end it. Don't piddle with the little stuff you just provide more opportunities for a mistake on your part that will end up getting you.<P>That is why I am very cautious about the response at all. If by not responding and doing what you have promised, you can avoid the fire fight do so. It may even put a few points in her bank. I don't know. I either fight or I don't.<P>Yeah, I know pretty black and white thinking. It is sort of a weakness of mine. However, I do feel that if there is to be a winner or a loser (pretty black and white) then I want to be the winner. I also think being the underdog is a highly overrated position to be in. <P>So I hope I have offered some things to think about, but I also hope there is a way to avoid a fight. Some of that will rest on your being able to step back and realize where she is with her thinking and knowing it is highly flawed thinking. That however doesn't mean you don't protect your son and your relationship with your son from her attacks.<P>God Bless,<P>JL<P>

Wow JL, i always thought maybe you were steve in hiding but man you came on strong here and I actually think that's a good thing. (I mean instead of pushing plan A or B, fighting it out). WAT, I think you should listen to JLs advise. He sounds like he knows what he's talking about. It does sound like you are being screwed by her and not in a "good" way.<P>Of course, I'm in the "I'm mad as hell" mode so maybe I'm just worked up....<P>D.

eyeswideopen,<P>I don't really know what I am talking about. I am just offering an opinion based on my life experience. It is truely my hope that Dave never has to do any of the things I suggested.<P>As for being Steve, well for starters I am not nearly well versed enough to do justice to what he and Jennifer can apparently do. Second, this is such tough stuff that I hesitate to offer advice on these things. <P>But, I am willing to offer what I think. I just hope that it does some good.<P>As for Plan A and Plan B, it's good stuff. I have seen each work wonders over the years here.<P>Thanks for the vote of confidence.<P>God Bless,<P>JL