Below is a letter I've considered giving to my W. It may be controlling or an LB and I probably won't give it to her anyway. I just felt like writing it. Opinions please!!!<P>Dear <W>,<P>It appears we're at a stalemate, You want a divorce and I don't. You asked me the other night why I thought things would ever change between us and I said they won't as long as you're still in contact with <OM>. You also asked why I want to be married to you if I thought you were involved with him. The answer is twofold. First and foremost, I love you. Secondly, I'm well aware that my behavior in the past contributed to your unhappiness and the breakdown of the emotional connection we once shared. I also realize you didn't feel safe talking to me when you felt that beginning to happen. Again, I take responsibility for that.<P>However, that being said, I still believe in our marriage. There has been a lot of damage done, and it would take a lot of work. But I believe the trust and love we once had can be rebuilt through complete honesty and openness. I'm willing to do whatever it takes to rebuild our marriage. <P>Ultimately, the fate of our marriage is in your hands. Regardless of which direction you choose to take, it won't be easy. It will an emotional roller coaster either way. I want what's best for you, what's best for me and most importantly what's best for <daughter>. It's obvious we don't agree on what that is and that's OK. If divorce is the answer for you, I respect your decision. I just don't agree that it's best for me or for <daughter>.<P>Love, <BR><H><P>What do you think?<P>sad dad<P><BR>

Hi Saddad,<P>I am going to push this one up to the top so that you can let the others take a look. <P>L.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by sad dad:<BR><B>Ultimately, the fate of our marriage is in your hands. Regardless of which direction you choose to take, it won't be easy. It will an emotional roller coaster either way. I want what's best for you, what's best for me and most importantly what's best for <daughter>. It's obvious we don't agree on what that is and that's OK. If divorce is the answer for you, I respect your decision. I just don't agree that it's best for me or for <daughter>.<BR>Love, <BR><H><P>What do you think?<P>sad dad</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P><BR>Uh, I'm gonna stick my neck out here, and say that I wouldn't say "Ultimately, the fate of our m is in your hands...."<P>While that may SEEM to be true, all the books I've read said the complete opposite. Actually, the fate of the M is in YOUR hands (dad). See, you can't give the WS the "power" to direct your M in her present state....she is not making rational decisions in her fog state.<P>YOU control which direction the M takes from here. YOU decide how long you can wait for her to come around and try to make your M work again...I think I would head in that direction....I think I would take that sentence out completely. <P>Further on down this paragraph, maybe change to - "...if YOU THINK divorce is the answer for you..."<BR>See, make her face the fact that it will be ALL HER decision to go forward w/D without trying to heal your M. Make her face the reality of that....not sure it will happen, but it might make her stop and think harder first.<P>Just my own opinion of how I perceived it.<BR>Lupo

lupolady,<P>I appreciate and agree with your opinion.<BR>I've revised that paragraph as follows:<P>"Regardless of which direction our marriage takes, it won't be easy. It will an emotional roller coaster either way. I want what's best for you, what's best for me and most importantly what's best for <daughter>. It's obvious we don't agree on what that is. If you believe divorce is the answer, I respect your decision. I just don't agree that it's best for me or for <daughter>."<P>What I wanted to know is if this letter seems controlling or an LB? I don't think it is, but I want objective points of view.<P>sad dad<P><p>[This message has been edited by sad dad (edited August 04, 2001).]

Just moving up. Want more opinions, please!!!<P>sad dad

let me think for a few minutes... I'll be back. (just wanted to acknowledge I see your post - so please don't feel ignored ) (((((((sad dad))))) huggzzzz

It seems a little on the LB side to me. Might I venture to revise it slightly, and see what you think? My revision is an attempt to make it a little softer, and less controll-ish. YOu may get more advice (remember, weekends are slow around here.). You may not like my revisions at all, or you may use some sort of combination. I guess I really need to understand your intent. I'm assuming that you are still in Plan A (I re-read your last post) and you want to just let your W know where you stand, so I will go with that intention for now. If you have other thoughts as what you are trying to communicate, it may help others in their advice.<P>Here we go:<BR>You asked me the other night why I thought things would ever change between us and I said they won't as long as you're still in contact with <OM>. I want to move forward with our relationship, but I simply can't share your heart with OM. You also asked why I want to be married to you if I thought you were involved with him. The answer is twofold. First and foremost, I love you. Secondly, I'm well aware that my behavior in the past contributed to your unhappiness and the breakdown of the emotional connection we once shared. I also realize you didn't feel safe talking to me when you felt that beginning to happen. Again, I take responsibility for that, and I hope you accept my apology.<P>Therefore, that being said, I still believe in our marriage. There has been a lot of damage done, and it would take a lot of work. But I believe the trust and love we once had can be rebuilt through complete honesty and openness. I'm willing to do whatever it takes to rebuild our marriage. <P>Regardless of which direction our marriage takes, it won't be easy. It will an emotional roller coaster either way. I want what's best for you, what's best for me and most importantly what's best for <daughter>. At this point, it's obvious we don't agree on what that is. I just don't agree that divorce is the best choice for you, me or for <daughter>."<P>Just my thoughts.... see what you think. <BR>

Faith1,<P>I appreciate your reply. Your assessment of my intentions are correct. I want my W to know that I don't believe D is the answer and that I understand the part I played in creating the environment for her A to happen. I made some slight revisions:<P>"You asked me the other night why I thought things would ever change between us and I said they won't as long as you're still in contact with <OM>. I want to move forward with our relationship, but I simply can't share your heart with OM. You also asked why I want to be married to you if I thought you were involved with him. The answer is twofold. First and foremost, I love you. Secondly, I'm well aware that my behavior in the past contributed to your unhappiness and the breakdown of the emotional connection we once shared. I also realize you didn't feel safe talking to me when you felt that beginning to happen and that lead to the conditions that made your relationship with <OM> possible. Again, I take my share of the responsibility for that, and I hope you accept my apology.<P>Therefore, that being said, I still believe in our marriage. There has been a lot of damage done, and it would take a lot of work. But I believe the trust and love we once had can be rebuilt through complete honesty and openness. I'm willing to do whatever it takes to rebuild our marriage. <P>Regardless of which direction our marriage takes, it won't be easy. It will an emotional roller coaster either way. I want what's best for you, what's best for me and most importantly what's best for <daughter>. At this point, it's obvious we don't agree on what that is. I just don't believe that divorce is the best choice for you, me or for <daughter>."<P>Hopefully I'll get more replies. I'm still not sure if I will send it.<P>sad dad<P><p>[This message has been edited by sad dad (edited August 05, 2001).]

sad dad,<P>hope it's ok with you that I'll venture an opinion. As a statement of where you stand, I think it's ok. like Faith said, it is a littl LBish, so I parsed the text - hope you like it. And the real question is, what do you want her to do with it? I think it needs some actions, something you want her to do or you want the both of you to do. Otherwise, it's just a statement.<P>Ok, here's a revision, I think works;<BR> <BR>'My dearest (W),<P>You asked me the other night why I thought things would ever change between us and I said they won't as long as you're still in contact with <OM>. I truly believe that things can change between us and I really want to move forward with our relationship. However, I simply can't share your heart with OM. It hurts (I'd tell her about your feelings and what it'd doing to you). <P>You also asked why I want to be married to you if I thought you were involved with him. The answer is twofold. First and foremost, I love you. Secondly, I want what's best for you, what's best for me and what's best for <daughter>. I simply don't agree that divorce is the best choice at the moment. I still believe in our marriage.<P>I'm well aware that my behavior in the past contributed to your unhappiness and the breakdown of the emotional connection we once shared. I also realize you didn't feel safe talking to me when you felt that beginning to happen. Again, I take responsibility for that, and I want you to accept my apology. There has been a lot of damage done, and it will take a lot of work. I believe the trust and love we once had can be rebuilt through complete honesty and openness. I'm very willing to do whatever it takes to rebuild our marriage.' <P>And it's here that you need to ask what it is that you want from her or what you'd like to do.<P>good luck,<P>

Freddy,<P>You wrote: <P>"...However, I simply can't share your heart with OM. It hurts (I'd tell her about your feelings and what it'd doing to you)". <P>Wouldn't telling her how much it hurts be an LB by making her feel guilty about the pain she's caused? <P>You also wrote:<P>And it's here that you need to ask what it is that you want from her or what you'd like to do.<P>Again, wouldn't this be an LB by making a selfish demand?<P>sad dad<P>

What if you changed that last part that says you don't agree the divorce would be the best for you or your daughter to:<P>divorce would not be the best thing for OUR FAMILY?

sad dad,<P>it depends how you say it. If you practice honesty without being judgemental or laying the blame, it can't be seen as an LB. So, you can't say it in an accusational way. I do think it's perfectly ok to say something like 'this situation is causing me a lot of pain' - because you're telling somebody how you feel.<P>I also think that within a Plan A you need to voice what it is you want. Otherwise she receives the note, she reads it, then what? the danger is that nothing happens and therefore nothing changes.<P>I do agree that you need to state what you want without LBing and without being selfish. For example, I think you could ask a simple question like 'how would you feel about that breaking contact with the OM' You're not asking her to break the contact. All you're doing is trying to understand her at an emotional level. She may respond by saying (even angrily) 'not on your life' and you can say 'hey, don't get angry, I'm just trying to understand and I can only do that if I ask questions. Is that ok for you?'. I'd be interested to know if that constitues an LB?<P>What do you think?<P>[This message has been edited by Freddy (edited August 06, 2001).]<p>[This message has been edited by Freddy (edited August 06, 2001).]

Freddy,<P>I'll have to give this some thought. The problem is that my W has never admitted the A, in fact she told me last week she has only talked to him a few times in the last 3 months and not at all recently. I know that's not true. If I ask her "how would you feel about breaking off contact with OM?" am I not insinuating she is lying (which she is) and isn't that an LB?<P>This whole LB stuff is confusing and I'm beginning to think this letter is a bad idea.<P>sad dad

Sad dad,<P>You have a very valid issue which needs airing. You need to be honest with your W and tell her how you feel. You don’t have to accuse her of lying - which would be a big LB. If she denies the A, ok, then you have to accept what she’s saying or provide the proof? If there’s no proof then you’re in danger of accussing your wife of something she may not have done.<P>At the moment, I’m for being completely open and honest in a relationship – it’s the only way. <BR>

Sad,<BR>I think the letter is fine like it is. All letters do not have to be a major big deal as far as communicating needs or asking for any decisions, etc. Sometimes just a short note - like your last revision - is enough to just get some feelings across. I mean, this doesn't have to be THE letter that says EVERYTHING, you know what I mean? Personally, I think it's fine like it is - to just communicate some feelings. And then see if you get any response. You can always write another letter later if you feel you want to communicate some different feelings. <P>I wrote my H a couple of short e-mails - with just a few thoughts. Then 3 weeks ago, I wrote a long, Plan A / Tough Love letter that I wanted to be comprehensive and say everything (you hurt me, I love you, I believe we can work this out, the memories, I can't make you stay at home, but I will miss you, you will have to meet me 1/2-way to reconcile, etc.). Since then, I've written 2 short little notes of encouragement, and like, why I love him, how I fell in love... <P>Anyway, what I mean is, I think a short letter like this is fine, and see if you get any reactions from your W. I wouldn't ask her about it though, except for - " I just wanted to make sure you received my letter." yes I got it. OK.<p>[This message has been edited by Faith1 (edited August 06, 2001).]

Freddy,<P>I agree with you wholeheartedly about the need for honesty in a realtionship. However where does that start, with her or with me? I do have proof of her A, some of which she knows, most of which she doesn't. <P>If you have the chance, please read some of my first posts from back in June to learn a little more about my story. She has denied the A since d-day and I know it is still going on. I could provide her with all the proof I know with the hope that she will come clean, but if she doesn't I have tipped my hand and exposing my methods of getting the proof I have will be a big LB. If she doesadmit it, it will be meaningless because she didn't do it of her own free will or because of her desire to work on our marriage.<P>That being said, I'm not sure how to proceed with the letter. Below is a revised version based on the suggestions of all who replied:<P>"Dear <W>,<P>You asked me the other night why I thought things would ever change between us and I said they won't as long as you're still in contact with <OM>. I truly believe that things can change between us and I really want to move forward with our relationship. However, I simply can't share your heart with another man, it hurts too much. <P>You also asked why I want to be married to you if I thought you were involved with him. The answer is twofold. First and foremost, I love you. Secondly, I want what's best for you, what's best for me and most importantly what's best for <daughter>. I simply don't agree that divorce is the best thing for our family. <P>I'm well aware that my behavior in the past contributed to your unhappiness and the breakdown of the emotional connection we once shared. I also realize you didn't feel safe talking to me when you felt this beginning to happen. Again, I take my share of the responsibility for that and I hope you can accept my apology.<P>Regardless of which direction our marriage takes, it won't be easy. It will an emotional roller coaster either way. However, I still believe in our marriage. There has been a lot of damage done, and it would take a lot of work to restore the trust and love we once had. But with complete honesty and openness, and by learning from the past, not dwelling on it, I believe we can build our marriage into something better than it ever was. I'm willing to do whatever it takes for that to happen and I am leaving the door open for us. <P>Love, <BR><H>"<P>Still a work in progress, I know. <P>sad dad<BR>

sad dad,<P>send it - it's good and I agree with Faith. Keep the communication going by sending short messages regularly. Every now and then send a longer one. Keep the communication flowing :-)<P>If you really want to get her attention, send the note with some flowers. Try three red roses with some 'greenery' - she'll love it and it'll make your note seem more sincere.<P>Last words - send the note - it's very good.<P>good luck and keep us updated.<P><BR>

Thanks Freddy & Faith1!!!<P>I'm not sure if I'm going to email the letter or send it to her work with flowers. Flowers may be a little too much.<BR>I doubt I'll get a response, but at least she'll know where I stand and what I want.<P>Thanks again,<BR>sad dad

I like it. Don't come back and hit us if she hates it. Just kidding. YOu can come back and punch me out if you want. You may not get any response. But if she reads it, she will know where you stand. You love her, you accept responsibility for your mistakes, you are willing to work on it, and you're not going to beg, push, or make her decisions for her.

Well, I emailed it! Keep you fingers crossed.<P>Thanks,<BR>sad dad