I think we shouldn't do things to make our spouses jealous. Why would a spouse do this? What is to be gained from doing this? A lot of women flirt around and then complain that their husband's won't let them have fun and treat them like children. Well I don't think these ladies are very mature at all. I think they are disrespectful to their husbands. The same ladies get jealous if their husband starts flirting around with younger women. Thereis a double standard here. Many of these kinds of behaviour do lead to affairs, emotional attachments, one night stands or whatever. Nothing happened YET. It was just FUN (at my husband's expense). If the wife took into consideration her husband's feelings she would not do such a thing. A man and a woman who are not husband and wife at 2:30 in the morning should be an obvious NO, NO. I would think this is common sense. The same woman will tell her daughter or son that this is wrong. The denial that this is wrong is the same behavious of Wayward women or men who have had an affair and try to justify it. Nothing happened but why risk the temptation. You can have the highest moral standards but affairs aren't always about not having standards it's about temptation knocking down your defenses for a very short period of time. It doesn't take much in terms of time for something to happen. You'd think we all were adults but look at the childish behaviour, lying , cheating and justifying affairs and keeping in contact with the OM or the OW with the most ridiculous arguments. Wrong is wrong and usually it should be obvious. <P>Here's 5 reasons why it is a good thing to dance with some other guy at 2:30 in the morning when your husband is not around:<P>1. ?<BR>2. ?<BR>3. ?<BR>4. ?<BR>5. ?<P>I guess my brain is not working today. I just can't think of anything good that could come of it. Well the wife feels excited and good about it. Is that a good thing? Maybe for her? Is it a good thing for the husband that his wife is so happy? Maybe doing this weekly would be great. Maybe having the other couple in the room ruined the atmosphere slightly. Next time do it right with just two people. Clearly it is ridiculous. Your wife is playing with fire. She is tempting fate. She doesn't have much respect for you at all. I wouldn't want a wife like this. <P>To me we should not do things to make our husband's or wive's uncomfortable. Don't play childish games and say "you are controlling me - by not letting me flirt around" You are married. Doesn't that mean something? <P>Maybe do the same as your wife and see how she likes it. I guess that's what revenge affairs are about and usually it doesn't help but sure is tempting.<BR>

Freddy, you are an inspiration to me.

Hi freddy and GodlyMan,<P>Just to share my side of things, this all sounds too familiar. About a year ago, maybe more, my WS began losing weight, started buying more provocative clothes, began going out with friends more and started wearing makeup (which she never did before, and didn't have to). She looked great, but with this new found confidence, she became a bigger and bigger flirt. I kept letting it slide, afraid to lose her. Dumb. Every inch of rope I gave her, she took more and more, until she eventually hung herself with it (had a EA/PA). What have I learned from this?<P>Stand up to inappropriate behaviour!<P>Find out what needs she is getting met by this behaviour, and strive to meet them yourself.<P>Take this as a warning and act accordingly. Sounds to me like there are problems on the horizon.<P>All the best

This HAS turned out to be a very enlightening post. I've had to think about this for quite a while.<P>I think we're all in agreement that this is very inappropriate behavior. For two reasons: 1. it makes you uncomfortable (POJA), 2. This is one of the Harley no no's that married people should just not do in general.<P>I have to remember BINthereDUNthat's comment about ganging up. I think I must have had that in mind when I sent my WS to this site. I thought it would add to the weight of my arguments if I had lots of people agreeing with my point of view. I really wanted her to participate and ask her own questions - I thought she would get better advice (for her) that way. I think there's a subtle line between persuassion and coercion. No one likes to be coerced.<P>Redon had the right summary. Your W gets something out of this right now that she's not getting any other way. Figure out what it is and meet that need. She's giving you signals here, not the best way to do it but this is how needs seem to express themselves most of the time.<P>You mentioned that you had to leave the party to attend to a child. I bet that you two don't often get to do this kind of thing together often. It could be that she sees the only way to ever do this kind of thing (dancing) is when she's by herself. This may be a case where the Harley principle of finding that 15 hours together may be part of the solution.<P>This is a big problem for families with children. You either don't do anything (slow poison). Or you end up with separate activities (tag team). We went the slow poison route and are just getting to an age where our kids can supervise themselves when we go out. <P>The true problem here is the unhappiness (or something) behind the behavior. The behavior is the symptom. <P>This is why I had to think about this so long. Many people want to attack the behavior. The manner they choose is usually not according to MB principles, because it involves either demands or threats. These are LBs and more often than not make the problem worse due to their effect on the lovebank.<P>There is nothing you can do directly to change her behavior. What you really want to do is change her mind. Your first approach was proper - telling how much the behavior hurts you and why. <P>The double standard is a good argument to use in this case. How would she feel if you did the same thing. I suspect that WS's can only believe their behavior is o.k. if they don't think about it too much. <P>That's why you negotiate when these issues should really be non-negotiable. The negotiation process make them think about what they are doing. You want to avoid the confrontations that prevent people from listening or thinking. You want to avoid the dig-in-the-feet/you can't control me response. <P>You are still recovering from your W's recent EA. It really does take a while to fully implement the rules of care, protection, honesty and time. Hopefully this is only a minor setback. <P>--Jeffers<P>

HI Freddy,<BR>Glad the outcome is what you wanted! Have to agree that her behavior was inappropriate. Just guessing but she sounds rather young and naive?<BR>Be careful with ultimatums.....standing up for oneself does not have to include them.<BR>cl

Freddy:<P>Wondering if some fog tendrils are still blowing around in her head.<P>Her behavior was out there walking the edge of the foggy bog. However, within the scope of MBing ... you did right by bringing it up.<P>As for her assault on Dr. Harley's (feces-laden ... would that be a polite translation of what she said?) principles: that is why I alluded to the fog above. She lashed out at MB principles because her anger deflects guilt, perhaps? Hmmm.<P>Don't want to start a fire if it's only smoke. But the ol' axiom: where there's smoke there's fire ... so, put on the ol' Smokey the Bear hat, grab the shovel and ... stomp out forest fires ...<P>Godspeed,<BR>STL