HF:<P><B>quote:<BR>--------------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>I haven't had any positive developments with my marriage. I am trying to learn and heal.<BR>--------------------------------------------------------------------------------<P>Many people feel the same way. When we are trapped in a circumstance, it is often hard to see our role; to see any progress ... the ol' can't see the forest for the trees syndrome.<P>The fact that you are learning and healing, and help others to achieve the same effect, is the reason you should continue to post here. Every time you post, the possibility exists that someone will glean some insight, some bit of your circumstance that will help them.<P>We thus learn from each other, gaining collective knowledge. Even from a Plan A or B that goes awry, there is an educational benefit.<P>Keep posting, dear HW ... your contributions are most valuable.<P><BR>quote:<BR>--------------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>It's been 1 year and 11 days today, since WH left. WH is still with OW. NO contact with me.<BR>--------------------------------------------------------------------------------<P>The key here is how much time has passed since you found out about MB and how long you have had a Plan A in effect.<P>If there is any way possible, attempt to contact your WS, so that you can start your Plan A. It isn't over as long as (a) your love still remains and (b) your husband hasn't initiated a Plan D that has been finalized by the courts.<P>Godspeed,<BR>STL</B><P>I didn't find MB until about 9 months after WH left. From the time he left, he was not very willing to communicate with me. With the exception of a few times, he was always extremely irate, hateful and even verbally abusive during our phone conversations. As time went on it has only gotten worse. He left me in a financial disaster and told me this was my problem not his. The business was our income, OW frequents there, and he threw me right out of the picture. <P>In Feb. I called him because I was very upset with foreclosure proceedings. WH talked to me an hour, had to go than called me back and talked another hour. He said he couldn't help me financially, but at least he was civil. He told me to call him the following afternoon. I debated and called, he said he was busy and couldn't talk, oddly in a different tone of voice. Later I got a call from the business, I missed getting to the phone in time. I called him back and he asked me not to call him there again. His tone of voice was very meek, not like the previous day. When I reminded him he had talked to me the day before and tried to ask him why....OW was apparently on the phone. She was yelling "don't ever call here again or I'll take you out for harassment"..than she slammed the phone in my ear. It appears she controls him and wants me gone, I know she was behind his decision not to talk to me, she must have had him call me. I only called once since, in April, I asked him how he was...he said fine, I'm busy and just hung up on me. I haven't contacted him again.<P>I don't know if you read my previous posts. OW had threatened me before verbally, wanted to beat me up (in more vulgar graphic terms). Another incident resulted in him bringing her to my door. I didn't answer, they returned shortly after a second time and OW left a threatening note. The police referred me to get protection, so got an Order of Protection against OW, she lied in court...but the Judge saw it and found her guilty. Later when I talked to H...he told me I didn't have to do what I did. When I asked him what he was talking about...he said taking his girlfriend to court. I guess I'm the bad guy...and she can do no wrong. <P>It's seems frivolous to try and contact him. He has a real hateful attitude towards me. I know OW has told him lots of lies to plot him against me...like I called harassing her..and driving around his apartment, etc. I can't believe he lets her munipulate him like this.<P>H took me to court in June. He was angry because I won't let him in my house. I don't feel safe after all hostility he has display, so I had told him I don't want him on my property or in my house. I feel I can't trust him now, and I don't know what he is capable of. H wants things out of the house. He won't talk to me, so how can anything be resolved? Does this make sense? I even tried before to return some items his children wanted. I made arrangements with his ex to call to make sure someone was home..and than I was going to deliver them. When I called his D asked "who is this" when she found out it was me, she slammed the phone in my ear. I let H know I tried and he told me to call again...I told him no, I felt I already had made an attempt. I also told him that I don't feel I deserve to be treated or talked to the way they are...and that I never talked to him disrepectfully.<P>When we went to court in June, H brought OW and his children, how appropriate. What a circus act, OW acted like it was a big joke, she laughed, snickered and raised her voice making sarcastic remarks. This was while we were waiting in the court room for the Judge. I know this was supposed to be to get at me, but only exhibited her ignorance. How can he stand her childish antics? Actually I know children that have more sense. OW also was displaying being pregnant. God forbid. I know H adamantly did NOT want anymore children. This may have been put on...she is that kind of Alien...vicious and vindictive. Anyway, after he gave his name, address..he blurted out to the Judge...that he was filing for a divorce July 19th (1 year separation required). The Judge threw it out of court...telling him he was NOT entitled to anything. Since he brought up divorce...she told him this would have to be taken up in the divorce. <P>H has filed an appeal against the Judge's decision. We have another court date this week for that. He is mounting with court hearings of law suits. Also, criminal charges resulting from something he did against me....I know a BIG LB me doing this. I hated doing this, but felt I had to protect myself, he was in the wrong. Nevertheless this is eating away at me. <P>At this point it is a real mess. H has shown so much animosity towards me. I don't know why I still care, after all he has done. I often ask myself why I still have feelings for him? I actually feel sorry for him, that he continues on the path of self-destruction. The thought comes to mind, when Jesus said forgive them, for they know not what they do. <P>Anyway, this is why I feel I can not contact him. I want to...but I don't think it would be beneficial. Everything I do, no matter what my intentions, is misconstrued. This is so hard to deal with. This is why I feel so helpless and hopeless. I don't know how I could possibly do any Plan at this point? I feel it's in God's hands and only he knows...this would take a miracle. I'm just so confused, hurt, etc. I can't imagine how he can possibly live like this and tolerate such an awful OW. This is NOT the person I thought I knew...or did I know? Questions????<P>I thank you for your input....and would appreciate any further opinions, suggestions, etc. Thank your wife also for her previous replies to me and support. <BR> <BR><p>[This message has been edited by Hurtwife (edited August 06, 2001).]

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HW:<P>Sorry I am so tardy getting to this: bad server day here on MB. (Plus, I do have a job, <I>really</I>.)<P>You are on currently on that treacherous ground where Plan A, as much as you would like to do one, is being offset by all the legal hullabaloo.<P>So, you might want to consider a Plan B letter. It will help you protect the love you still feel, help you build your independence, etc. Plus it serves as a final wake up call for your WS, before the final quagmire of all the legal manueverings.<P>It may seem bleak at the moment, but who knows what will trigger him out of the fog. One day at a time, one step at a time.<P>Protecting yourself legally, however, does not classify as an LB, IMHO. Nor does seeking protection via the courts against violence. If you can't protect yourself, you can't work to protect the marriage, right?<P>Godspeed,<BR>STL

SeenTheLight:<P>Tardy is understandable...better late than never. I know I couldn't even get to MB yesterday. <P>I have thought about a Plan B letter. It was suggested that I write one and present it to him the last time we went to court. I even wrote a letter, than the computer lost it. Than I talked to the police officer that I had filed the police report with. After he relayed what H had told him, I decided not to give H the letter. The police officer came across like I was the perpetrator and H was the victim. The officer even acussed me of not telling him everything...he said I had a exparte against me, which is what H told him. Now this is crazy, the officer even argued the point with me, you would think he would have checked, there is none and no reason for one against me. The lies H had told the officer were unbelievable and it appeared he believed him. In a way, even threatening actions to discourage me from filing...trying to turn this around on me. I couldn't believe the attitude of our so called law enforcement agency.<P>I am still contemplating a Plan B letter. But, with all that has transpired, it seems inappropriate in the mist of the legal conflicts. Before I knew H had filed to take me to court, on a replevin, I had sent his children something. It was a nice little gift, for each, with a lovely encouraging poem about God carrying you through troubled times. I made a card with a picture of the dogs. I kind of sent it from the dogs, signed it with paw prints, because of the animosity D has towards me. I thought it was cute. When we went to court, H acused me of sending the dog's picture...to make her feel bad. This was NOT my intention whatsoever. So anything I do is misconstrued because of their hostile attitudes. Therefore, I thought if I presented him with a Plan B letter 1. He would probably share it with OW and would get a big laugh out of it. 2. It would be interpreted adversly. 3. It could fuel the fire even more. I just don't know...it's such a mess and I'm so confused at this point. I don't know what to do...or what not to do. I feel I'm damned if I do...and damned if I don't. If that makes sense.<P><B>It may seem bleak at the moment, but who knows what will trigger him out of the fog. One day at a time, one step at a time.</B><P>It does seem very bleak. If it's fog...and it begins to lift...I'm thinking he HATES me beyond repair. I also think he has dug so deep (financially and legal problems)....maybe this is meant to be for my own protection, I have mixed emotions.<P><B>Protecting yourself legally, however, does not classify as an LB, IMHO. Nor does seeking protection via the courts against violence. If you can't protect yourself, you can't work to protect the marriage, right?</B><P>I believe he views the legal issues as LBs. Especially the criminal charges. H's response to my seeking protection against OW...was.."You didn't have to do what you did"..when I asked what he was talking about...he said "taking my girlfriend to court". Is this FOG or what? She can threaten me verbally on the phone to beat me up (he was there listening) than come to my house and leave a threatening note (H brought her), but I'm the bad guy? Give me a break! Is this insane or what?<P>Thanks for your input and help.

SeenTheLight:<P>Didn't know if you read this...there were a lot of problems...so I'm bumping it up.

HW:<P>SSS (Slow Server Syndrome) yesterday ...<P>Plan B is about you and preserving the remaining love <I>and</I> about working on you going onward. You don't necessarily have to give it to him just yet (just soon).<P>You can mention the concept with your lawyer, discuss a bit of legal strategy. As for divorces being a LB ... they darn sure can be that, and from my experience with my exW, they can get very ugly.<P>As for your H's reaction(s). That is the fog, in part. Probably the OW in part, too. Remember, he has to find mechanisms to self-justify his behavior. So he attempts to shift the blame on you. If you are this "evil and vile" person, then he has every "right" to do what he is doing ... get the drift?<P>At this point in time, it is about protecting you: physically (restraining order) and emotionally (Plan B letter). If the Plan B letter works to jar him from the fog, so much the better! As for the two of them having a laugh at it: that is their emotional problem, not yours, as you will have done (and be doing) all that is possible to preserve the marriage.<P>You have grown emotionally and can move on, if necessary. So your homework assignment: read up on Plan B, and discuss any possible legal ramifications with your lawyer.<P>Prayers and thoughts with you,<BR>Godspeed,<BR>STL