i actually wrote this months ago, found it searching for another post. i think most of it applies still.<P><BR>Lessons learned by a WS<P>a. don’t believe that they(bs) won’t care <P>b. be honest really honest <P>c. give them(bs) a chance to be responsive if you don’t tell them they wont know <P>d. don’t think they(bs) heard you just because you feel like you were screaming it from the rooftops. say it again louder, in a different language until they say it back they didn’t hear you. <P>e. if they aren’t responsive give it more time, if more time doesnt work give them more time, but if it is over, leave them first then meet your needs <P>f. do not be afraid of conflict, dealing with conflict is what makes it work not avoiding it. <P>g. be honorable, who will want you if you cant be trusted <P>h. do not be ashamed of your needs and wants <P>i. let your spouse try to change, accept what they are willing to give as genuine until proven otherwise. <P>j. allow your spouse to be angry about your choice they deserve to be. <P>k. accept that your spouse isn’t the only one who failed the marriage <P>l. be sorry for what happened. really sorry <P>m. let your spouse try <P>n. don’t forget the pain you’ve caused <P>o. don’t forget the pain that made having an A ok in your head, make sure to protect against it. hold true to your needs don’t let guilt wash away the failure of you marriage. <P>p. apologize to your spouse for your choice, no reason why it happened no buts, just apologize. <P>q. ask your spouse how you can meet their needs. <P>r. open your life completely. no secrets, share all activities and passwords. you did something that caused you to be suspect. do everything you can to be transparent and predictable so that your spouse can begin to trust you again. <P>s. did I mention open up your life be completely transparent answer all questions about where you were and what you were doing non-defensively you don’t deserve trust yet earn it by being truthful and open. <P>t. never compare your spouse to OP hold them accountable for meeting your need, but know that everyone has their own style love the effort <P>u. hold your spouse, just hold them tell them you love them <P>v. be thankful your property isn’t in the driveway <P>w. tell your spouse what you need from them be honest, don’t hide from them what they need to know in order to decide to act. <P>x. act on what they tell you they need, don’t expect that they are the ones who have to work on this. <P>y. be polite act loving even when you don’t feel that way. <P>z. be honest, be open, tell them what you need, set boundaries and listen to them make sure you are working hard to meet their needs too. don’t forget how bad it’s been struggle hard not to be here ever again. <P>thanks<P><BR><P>------------------<BR>in loving service<BR>chaz

Very good! Thank you!

If I could take each and every one of those words of wisdom and download them into my wife's programming like some kind of shareware, I would. <P>But the fact that she doesn't do a SINGLE one of those things has just left me depressed =(

She's not yet, GM. Don't give up hoping that she will, ok? Not expecting, but hoping.

GM,<P>can you make a short list of what you think she has learned? good or bad, what she believes to be true and is working for her now.<BR>

Chaz, <BR>GM hit it, great great list, but depressing b/c my W has no clue and doesn't want to learn any of these except maybe 1/7 of Z. That is the part about setting boundaries. She wants me to not bring anything up about us or the A, anything else is pushing and unacceptable and usually causes hang up on GC. I love your list and like GM, I wish I could put this on a chip in my W's brain.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by chazbutler:<BR><B>GM,<P>can you make a short list of what you think she has learned? good or bad, what she believes to be true and is working for her now.</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>I will try. I tried to come up with a few, real quick, but I couldn't. I will do this as an excersize for myself, though, to keep my hopes out of the dumps.

Chaz, please clarify for me (sorry) - you have my interest. I wanna play too. I feel the same way GM does.<P>What do you mean "everything WS has learned"? Do you mean everything since D-Day? Or since the A? Like Everything they've learned about themselves? about the BS? about THeir needs? THe marriage problems before the A? About how the BS has changed since beginning PlanA? DO you mean <B>everything</B>? or which part above? <P>Sorry.... but this has my interest and I would like to learn something here... thanks! <p>[This message has been edited by Faith1 (edited August 06, 2001).]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Faith1:<BR><B>Chaz, please clarify for me (sorry) - you have my interest. What do you mean everything WS has learned? Do you mean everything since D-Day? Or since the A? Everything about themselves? about the BS? about THeir needs? THe marriage problems before the A? About how the BS has changed since beginning PlanA? DO you mean everything? or which part above? <P>Sorry.... but this has my interest and I would like to learn something here... thanks! </B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Well the lessons I learned were about marriage and how I see my role in having a successful one in light of what has happened between us.<P>i dont know that the lessons are universal but as i look at them, they could easily be lessons i wish my wife would consider in her dealings with me as a BS.<P>what can i offer to explain better?<BR>

hmmm... I guess then, what GM is saying, and me too, is that we don't think our WS's have learned any lessons. I don't mean to speak for GM - that's how I interpreted it - knowing some of his story. My H doesn't want the marriage to work, and doesn't do any of the things on your list - except for V. He's very happy (and somewhat surprised) I haven't destroyed his stuff. He is still in the fog and in his own apartment. <P>I tried to make a list anyway, of what everything I think he has learned about himself, me, his needs, PLUS progress I've seen in his responses and attitudes since I started Plan A.<P>Thanks for making me think!

i guess what i was trying to get him to think about is the lessons that she is learning, while they may not be pro-marriage, they are lessons she is learning none the less, considering what she is learning might give him specific action points for his own growth.<P>