GodlyMan and others.. Please see <BR> <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/forum/Forum37/HTML/011048.html" TARGET=_blank>http://www.marriagebuilders.com/forum/Forum37/HTML/011048.html</A> (quoted below)<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><BR>Romantic love is the weakest, the basest, the most primitive of love. It is the infancy of love. It is that hear-fluttering, pulse-quickening feeling you get around the other person. It's not REAL love. It feels good, and a lot of times, we miss that feeling when we've been with the same person for a long amount of time.<P>However, what many people forget is that love is an ever-changing emotion. As it matures, it moves from that fleeting excitement to a more steady, comfortable safety/security feeling. Many people think that when the "passion" subsides, the love dies. They don't realize that the passion comes and goes, sometimes leaving for a long while, only to return stronger than ever. They think they've fallen out of love and they go looking for the excitement they once had, thinking that is real love.<BR><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>GM and Others.. the WS is not IN love as they think and as your thinking. IMVHO ... contine for my explanation.<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by GodlyMan:<BR><B>Now I don't think about my wife as in a fog. She's really in love with this guy. She used to be in love with me, but the love we had pales in comparison with what they have. It pisses me off, yes. But I am not going to keep throwing myself at a brick wall. That is how it feels when I make love to her. She's far away, and might as well not even be there.<P>But I am also a patient man. I love my wife so powerfully, that I am willing to put all those emotions aside and present myself as a willing and loving husband to her, should she decide I am worth keeping.<BR></B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>GM you are worth keeping.. the OM isn't willing to put those emotions aside because he doesn't have a basis to even know what the heck they are. His emotions for your wife are of the romantic love. Even my wife, after 2.6 years of being "IN" love with the OM, made a comment to me recently that she doesn't love him as she does her Exhusband.. and me.. who she has the most love for. She didn't know what she was referring to was Romantic Love for the OM, Mature Love she shared with her first husband... which will always exist.. and finally the Romantic Love she still has for me and the Mature Love that will always exist between us. GM Yes your wife is far away... but the romantic love will end.. and she will need that mature love you have in your heart to be there and catch her when she falls.<P><I>original topic at <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/forum/Forum37/HTML/011446.html</I>" TARGET=_blank>http://www.marriagebuilders.com/forum/Forum37/HTML/011446.html[/i]</A> <P>What everyone needs to remember.. the basis for the A is the romantic love.. Romantic love comes and goes.. as do many marriages in the first year. If the A never spawns Mature Love from the Romantic Love then the relationship will fail inevitably. Recovery back to a healthy marriage is trying to respark that Romantic Love, to have the feelings that come with it.. kindled beneath the Mature Love.<P>BS's you need to meet EVERY EN that your BS will let you meet, in order to maintain the mature love that exists between you and your WS. In meeting those EN, there will be some romantic love redeveloped.. between you and your WS and this causes fence sitting, confusion as several of us are now seeing (Miss Priss, myself, Cali, GodlyMan and many many others) We encounter the romantic love again when we fulfill their needs and our WS respond... What scares them away is the mature love because they can't or don't want to understand what it is, where it went or the purpose of mature love.<P>Am I making sense?<P>------------------<BR>Semper,<P>Husband2You<BR>*****<BR>Don't make me promises <BR>Baby you never did know how to keep them well <BR>I've had the rest of you <BR>Now I want the best of you <BR>It's time for show and tell<P>'All or Nothing' O-Town

Husband2you,<P>You just saved my day. <BR>Thank you for your post.<BR>

Well I'm glad I saved your day.. but how did I... pray tell, will you please..?<P>Just sharing from the huge amounts of things that I have saved from here years ago.. so I can't take the credit.. except for bumping it up to ya Humper. <P>------------------<BR>Semper,<P>Husband2You<BR>*****<BR>Don't make me promises <BR>Baby you never did know how to keep them well <BR>I've had the rest of you <BR>Now I want the best of you <BR>It's time for show and tell<P>'All or Nothing' O-Town

H-2-U<P>Read lots more about this concept and lots of other good stuff in "The Truth About Love" by Pat Love.<P>Recommended reading for WS & BS...<P>E

H2Y,<P>Let me make sure I understand this. Are you saying that my W's fence sitting (not filing for D, but talking about it for 4 months) is because I am meeting some of her EN's?<BR>I'm just looking for a glimmer of hope that something I'm doing is working.<P>sad dad

Thank you H2Y!!! yes, you are making sense. I makes MY day because it gives me that little bit of energy to make it a little longer and believe what I'm doing is worth it. <BR> <BR><B>BS's you need to meet EVERY EN that your BS will let you meet, in order to maintain the mature love that exists between you and your WS. In meeting those EN, there will be some romantic love redeveloped.. between you and your WS and this causes fence sitting, confusion as several of us are now seeing (Miss Priss, myself, Cali, GodlyMan and many many others) We encounter the romantic love again when we fulfill their needs and our WS respond... What scares them away is the mature love because they can't or don't want to understand what it is, where it went or the purpose of mature love.</B><P>If it scares them away, then what do we do about that? Just wait, and fill the EN's gently until they are not scared anymore?<P>P.S. GodlyMan is out of town with his W for 4 days. I hope he will see this when he gets back.<P>

Yes I suppose it scares us some, but you made no mention of why the fear, and that is what is important. For those of us who left our marriages (fell in love with op), we did so only in part cause a romantic bond was forged with another. The other part was cause we do not want the marriage we are in, any longer.....ever. I thought my wife pretty much felt the same way, was done with me, her actions (as I percieved them) said so. It was a surprise (and very confusing) to have her say no, she did not want to divorce. But words are cheap, and I didn't put much stock in her obvious need for someone to simply take care of her, and her fear of being thrown away (she is a 50 yo, sahm, which makes me about as despicable as it gets I guess). I already had decided I would never let her suffer (in the being taken care of sense, that was my duty, it was passion that was the issue, duty I can do as an X). But she has persisted, says she wants passion too, and will change the things she can, and that she feels she should, just give her a chance. To my surprise she has "changed" in ways that I did not think she could. Now I am confused, are these changes permanent? Do they really make any difference to me? And yes it is scarey, cause I must acknowledge them, and make myself vulnerable to the changes, something I am loathe to do. I don't want to rethink my future, it was all decided, the marriage was over (whether ow was in future or not), I don't want to be hurt and disappointed again by a failed reconcilliation effort. Nor do I want to hurt her more by rejecting her again if I still find I want to leave. Yet that is the risk we must both take. I don't think these fears are ungrounded, nor do I think has to do with fear of mature love (whatever that is supposed to be). IMO love is love, and the notion romantic love is a fleeting feeling that one has then loses is baloney. It is the feeling you have all the time when a marriage works (yeah, may have a tiff on occassion, or get precoccupied, but the romance is always there, just under the surface, and breaks out all the time).....it is the "comfortable marriages" where no one really cares about the lack of passion, where not being together is no big deal, where each have their own independent lives that scares the bejeepers out of me, is like being 1/2 dead, is just a settling, being roomates, why even bother being married?

bump for Godly Man<P>------------------<BR>Semper,<P>Husband2You<BR>*****<BR>Don't make me promises <BR>Baby you never did know how to keep them well <BR>I've had the rest of you <BR>Now I want the best of you <BR>It's time for show and tell<P>'All or Nothing' O-Town

How did I miss this post before? This is good stuff, clear and simple. It probably will raise questions in the minds of the WS. This seems to go against the WS logic. Undermines the OP mentality and blows away the reason for prolonging the A. <P>Good post. <P>Thanks, H2U.....<P>L.

I was wondering how I missed this.....hmmm out of town...in training all week...<P>Two weeks MIA...I must have missed a lot of good stuff...<BR>Thanks H2Y...<P>I'm not sure, though, if this is helping me or confusing me...so much on my mind about my H and love and staying married....<P>Cali<P>------------------<BR><I>Live Impeccably In Your Word.<BR>Don't Take Anything Personally.<BR>Make No Assumptions.<BR>Do Your Best Always. </I>

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>In meeting those EN, there will be some romantic love redeveloped.. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>OK, I'm gonna throw a "monkey wrench" in the works here, and ask, WHY can't OP BECOME a "romantic love" if they begin meeting ALL WS's EN? If this is all it takes, then WHY come back at all??? Just stay wherre you "feel in love" and begin making that stronger? Isn't that kinda what the first year of M is anyway? I felt many times during our first year of M that "this isn't for me, this isn't gonna work, we're soooo different...." obviously, 20 years later, I don't feel that anymore.<P>But if romantic love is simply the "mature love" that comes from continuing to meet someone's EN's, then OP can continue to do that ad nauseum, too, till it "matures" -can't they? WHAT AM I MISSING in this explanation?<P>I have NO CONTACT, and what little contact (through letters) that I have is fleeting, and tenuous at best (I don't know if he gets, or reads my letters). Sooooo, if OP is doing a da*n good job of meeting ALL his needs, What the Heck does he need to come home to ME for?!?!<P>I'm pretty much in the same boat as S_N_L, whereby we were basically living "as roommates" - and I know my H's "mind-set" was as S_N_L's is: I don't want to live like this the rest of my life, it's passionless, and I want more....he thought I would "be better off without him" and has "gotten on with his life" (all his words in parentheses), so WHAT is going to make him think there is any passion left to preserve (especially if we can't communicate?) if SHE is providing him w/all he needs???<P>Just frustrated here, today.<BR>Lupo<p>[This message has been edited by lupolady (edited August 15, 2001).]

Wow, this post was created for my benefit, as well as others, and I haven't even seen it yet! What an awesome thread, too! It has answered some questions, and brought up new ones.<P>It answers my question of why my wife suddenly has a somewhat renewed passion for me. She enthusiastically and sincerely compliments me on how I look, and I feel this is the romantic love returning to our relationship. It is a direct result of my Plan A efforts, I have no doubts. Romantic love was definitely missing from our relationship and now that it has returned, to some extent, I feel happy and hopeful.<P>So, ok, the <I>spark</I> has returned somewhat. But what about the mature love? She does see me as a friend, and provider and a partner, but she shields herself from me. Why? Is it because she feels a sense of committment to the OM? Is it because the mature love was never there? Do not count out that possibility. We have only been married 2 years and only knew each other for a year before that. I don't doubt my love and devotion to her, but I doubt hers for me. She senses that and tells me "Please don't doubt my love for you. You have no idea how much I still love you"<P>I guess I am still confused. But realizing the distinction between romantic love and mature love has helped me understand some things. One thing is for sure, knowing that her love with the OM is a mere "heart fluttering, immature, romantic love" doesn't make it any easier to sleep at night. I would do anything to make that love go away.

OK -- I understand the concepts and definitions of "romantic love." We all crave the excitement and feelings that generates. And I believe that is the cause for many affairs.<P>So whats the definition of mature love? What is it, and why should we crave it? In my case romantic love turned into being taken for granted. <P>And what makes you think all BS's have mature love for their spouse?

Lexxy, I think many BS's do indeed mistake mature love for romantic love. But Romantic love doesn't stand the test of time and trial. When trials come around, romantic love bails. The heart fluttering romance is gone, and if mature love isn't still underneath, the relationship is doomed. <P>

what a thread H2y,<P>I'm not sure if I fully get the two types of love either. But this is certainly very thought provoking! I'm copying sadnlonely's post over to a thread I have in Recovery - one I am bringing my H to read soon, asking if many WS want to end their marriages. Sad n Lonely, I think the honesty which you have written with can open up a very healthy discussion between my H and I. Thank you. I am a BS in a marriage that was going a bit flat in the face of other very high key life circumstances - but I believe we can change it around.<BR>thank you all.....