We have come to the end of one of my weeks with my kids and my oldest daughter, 15, is refusing to go to her mother's place today. She says she is tired from being shoveled from one place to another, that none of her friends do this and she just doesn't want to do it any more. She and her mother had a huge fight Friday night on the phone about this. My daughter offered to come to Mom's place on the weekends and to my place during the week. Unbelieveably, my wife later told me that she didn't think that was fair to HER!! How can she be that self-centered! What she really meant is that it would cramp her style to have her kid around on weekends when she wants to see OP!<P>I'm trying to stay within the limits of Plan A here and want to back my wife. But any ideas on how this should be handled? God knows, if I have learned anything in life it is not to get involved in a conflict between two women!<p>[This message has been edited by Always Hopeful (edited August 12, 2001).]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Always Hopeful:<BR><B>We have come to the end of one of my weeks with my kids and my oldest daughter, 15, is refusing to go to her mother's place today. </B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Why not do standard visitation - every other weekend with mom. Maybe sprinkle in a weeknight dinner for daughter with mom to keep her knowing what's going on with daughther. Would be a lot less disruptive to your daughter. She's 15, she has a right to say that she wants to stay with you.<P>

I'm afraid that's not the answer.<P>When we made the arrangements of custody in March, we agreed together on what would be done. I think trying to alter that would come accross as being manipulative to my wife. What you are suggesting would give my oldest daughter more time with me than the wife and that would definitely make it look like I am trying to punish her. It's funny, when all of this started my wife was working on some type of written separation agreement that she and I were supposed to sign. As of this date, four months later, I have never seen it or heard her mention anything about it. Except for getting brief advice in separate initial visits, we have never gotten lawyers involved. I have always looked at that as a positive thing.<P>Lost in all of this is my youngest daughter, age 10, who just wants all of us to be a family again.<P>I firmly believe that what needs to happen here is for my wife and daughter to talk. My wife needs to feel the pain she is causing. I think I remember reading that somewhere in a Harley book. Extended family has a role in recovery.<P>

In many states a fifteen year old has pretty much the final say on how much time they spend with each parent. What you and your wife agreed on is pretty much irrelevant. You really can't force a teenager to go somewhere she doesn't want to be.<P>I agree that they should talk, but you can't force that to happen either. Teenagers can be pretty determined. One of my kids, who was sixteen when her father left, has said exactly two words to her father in two and a half years, and one of those wasn't printable. Another child barely talks to him - I'm not sure if she has had any communication with him in the last year, while she has been away at school.<P>Our 11 year old became angry at her father after he berated her, and I was able to talk her into seeing him again after a couple of weeks. There is no way that would work with her older sisters, though. <P>

Back your D; you can't make her go when she doesn't want to do so.<P>My STBX & I let our 17 S do what he wants, if he wants to go with Dad fine, if he doesn't he knows he can stay here. Both boys also know that they can home anytime or if they want to stay longer with Dad they can, I keep telling them do what they want, so far they always want me. Their Dad has always traveled, so they are use to him not being around every day, but I think it is getting to him, that he is close & not seeing them every day.<P>Lately he has been going more, partly because they are truck shopping & he likes to work out with his Dad.<P>Your W needs to think about what is best for your D, not what your W wants. I know WS never think about what is best for those around them, their needs are more important than anyone else’s much less the innocent children they leave behind.<P>Maybe a 3rd party might need to mediate between your W & D, where you won’t come out looking out the bad guy to either one but if push comes to shove go with your D. Teenagers know a lot more about this custody issue than most of us, they have heard their friends talk, they know what they can do.<P>Good luck.<BR>

Nellie & Sing-<P>Thanks for your views. Mine are similiar. The problem is, I am trying to figure out how to do this and stay within the limits of Plan A. If I try to tell my wife to do what is best for our daughter, that would be indicating to her that what she is doing now is wrong and might be interpreted as trying to "straighten her out". It's a tough call. I'm just afraid it might open a whole new can of worms and ruin what I've accomplished up to now.<P>This problem really just popped up this weekend. I feel I need to give them a chance to try and straighten it out on their own, at least for this week. I guess I'm hoping that this might shake some of the "fog" around my wife. Maybe I need to schedule a session with Steve Harley in the next few days...<p>[This message has been edited by Always Hopeful (edited August 12, 2001).]

AH,<P>Talk to Steve, <P>Think about having a 3rd party mediate it they don't work it out soon, maybe a minster or shcool counselor. you don't want this battle to go on to long, it could lead to open rebellion.

AH - I'm with Nellie's and sing's first responses. Don't worry about a pristine Plan A in this situation. Your daughter is expressing her view for a good reason - she has an input and she's right. We should never use our kids as pawns, but here, give her some maneuvering room and let her be the one to LB. You know you're not "using" her and it'll give her some sense of influence. I'll bet your wife will know that she's speaking for herself and not you. If it makes your wife mad, so be it. Turmoil is good.<P>WAT

Thanks to all.<P>Dave, you are absolutely right. The turmoil was good today. Everything worked out as my daughter and wife finally talked things through. Of course it helped that she took both of them to the mall for a little school shopping. I even went to my wife's softball game tonight. Haven't done that in over a year. Might have even deposited a few units in the ol' love bank.<P>They all came over after the game for a few minutes and we all talked for a while. Yep, when used constructively, turmoil is good!<P><p>[This message has been edited by Always Hopeful (edited August 12, 2001).]

AH:<P>And constructive turmoil can shake the fog around a little, too. Who knows what the long-term benefit of this shall be.<P>Let your 15-yo have input into your decisions. Perhaps a father-daughter discussion of MB principles, if you haven't already. That way she feels included in your fight to preserve the marriage. If nothing else, as your daughter grows, you will be establishing a more adult-to-adult type of bonding for the future.<P>Godspeed,<BR>STL

STL-<P>Already done. I had a talk with her at the ball game to let her know how proud of her I was. I also let her know how much of a part she could play in saving this family by just being honest with her mother about her feelings. I cautioned that there still will be some down times ahead, but no matter what her mom and I love her very much.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Always Hopeful:<BR><B>I also let her know how much of a part she could play in saving this family by just being honest with her mother about her feelings</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Why not try to find a counselor who specializing in teens and younger children. I took my boys to one - she was/is great.<P>Bob<BR>

Bama-<P>Been there. Steve Harley suggested the same thing months ago when I first revealed my W's affair to the kids. I was referred by my Pastor at church to a local Christian counseling center.<P>When I took my girls for the first appointment, I was elated to see a copy of "His Needs, Her Needs," in the waiting room. That feeling, unfortunately, was short-lived. The counselor saw me first. She basically was shocked that I would let my wife treat me that way (Plan A) and I was pretty much told I was wasting my time. I should worry more about my own feelings. She did alright with the girls, although I had more trouble with them understanding why I decided to fight for my marriage after this visit. I decided against going back.<P>Which brings to mind, I had an idea today about how the Harleys' could broaden their teachings and will immediately post it under another heading. Why don't they start a network of counselors that people can actually go see?