Hi All,<P>Hope everyone had a good weekend. Nothing new to report in my situation. We're still living together and getting along, but that's it.<P>I talked to Steve Harley a couple of weeks ago and told him that I don't think plan A is working. But the more I think about it, I may be wrong. First, I've made some changes in myself that have made me a better person, father, son, brother and friend. I hope my W can see that I'm a better husband, too. She has acknowledged these changes, but questions whether they are permanent. I guess that's right out of the WS script. The longer she can deny/question my changes the easier it is to justify what she's doing. Secondly, my W still has not filed for D after 4 months of talking about it. I guess I'll have to look at these as small victories in an otherwise abyssmal situation. <P>For now, I'll continue to plan A, smother my daughter with love, be patient and wait.<P>sad dad

Thanks for the update. It sounds like things are going ok. Yes, keep on Plan A'ing. She'll notice the differences you've made and begin to believe them. They will become habits for you as well, and you won't feel like you are working so hard.

Faith1,<P>The changes are here to stay. I've been working on myself since this all started last November. That's about the time my W started talking to OM, it wasn't until March/April that I discovered EA (PA?). My wife was and probably still is pretty much blind to my changes because of OM. She may not appreciate them until the fog starts to lift, if that happens.<P>sad dad

I made an appointment with Steve for Thursday. Hopefully he can give me some ideas on how to break this stalemate. I think my W is stalling on filing to see if she can break me, get me to file so I'll be the "bad guy" and relieve her of that burden. There are times when I'm tempted to, but I can't. I still love my W and believe we can be happy.<P>sad dad

I'm glad you are going to talk to Steve. Be sure to let us know what he says. Hang in there til then. You're not alone! I feel like I'm at a stalemate with my H too. Nothing good has been happening, but nothing bad either. I can do this for a little while. I wanted to rock the boat a little tonight and see what's going on, but I decided to keep things going smoothly with Plan A. I think it was good.<P>whatever the reason for the stall, it doesn't matter. It buys time for the A to end, the fog to lift, and we, the BS to develop our changes into habits.

Faith1,<P>You're right. Time is on my side. The longer she puts it off, the more likely OM will get impatient. At least I can hope so.<P>Angry outbursts and critisism were my biggest faults, but now they don't even tempt me. I've come a long way in 9 months.<P>On another note, do you ever work or sleep? Seems you're always online. Just kidding!!!!!<P>sad dad

tee-hee. Working and sleeping are no fun when I have a place like MB to be instead! <P>Seriously, this place gets me through my lonliness at night - no kids. And helps me stay on track with my Plan A. And I DO spend too much time on here at work. oops - don't tell my boss. <P>Besides - I have to save all of your marriages! There's no time to sleep! BIG TEE-HEE on that one!

<p>[ January 09, 2002: Message edited by: OffOnOnOff ]</p>

OOOO,<P>I'm doing exactly what you suggested. I spend alot of time with my daughter. I get her all to myself for about an hour and a half before my W gets home from work. All we do is play and I feel we are much closer. I take her everywhere I go, whether it's McDonalds, the grocery store or just for a ride. I've been very busy at work and should really be working longer hours, but I won't give up that time with my daughter.<P>As far as my W, I keep the conversation light and try to give her some space. I meet some of her needs (family, domestic & financial support) but she won't give me the chance to meet others (affection, recreational companionship), but I rarely LB either.<P>For now I'll just keep doing what I'm doing and try to "out wait" OM and hope the fog starts to clear.<P>sad dad

Hi sad dad- I am so glad you posted.I have been wondering how you've been doing.My H also had alot of questions about the changes I made that he had been asking for from me for a long time.He thought to himself that I was finally improving myself to just win him back from OW then I'd revert to exactly how I was before the A. He also had a hard time comprehending how I could possible forgive him for what he did since he told me that if I had had the A he couldnt have forgiven me for it. Like your W, he wanted me to file and provoked me sometimes so that I would to avoid carrying the guilt of filing on his conscience but I refused to file as I believed D was no solution to our problems.Plus he had a very hard time making a final break from OW because of the emotional attachment between them and she would get hysterical and make threats when he would break it off with her. Then he would go back to her and the next time it would be even worse in terms of OW's demands on him. I think in marriage it can be so easy to get locked into certain roles and patterns of behaving with each other that sometimes it takes a true crisis to revive the relationship. ( not that it would necesarily be an affair that did it) Like the Chinese definition for crisis- its two parts- danger AND opportunity. I know how hard it is to be patient- that was one of my most difficult problem areas- I am not patient usually. But wow did I have to develop it within myself when going 7 mo with no affection from H, waiting for his A to wind down and now in marriage counseling I am still having to be patient as we try to change the underlying difficulties within our marriage. One thing is certain- life is never static and things will eventually shake out. Hang in there and let us know how your counseling appt goes on Thursday.Take care- lifeismessy

LIM,<P>It's amazing how similar our stories are. If you don't mind revisiting the past, I have a few qustions for you. How long w/o affection prior to d-day? When was d-day and how long after d-day before recovery began? Has the affection returned? How long did he waffle about D? What happened when the fog began to lift? Sorry for all the questions.<P>sad dad<P>p.s. - Please look up my thread "questions about EA's" from yesterday and feel free to offer any insight. Thanks!!!

SD- I'll be glad to answer your questions. d-day here was Valentines day though I had suspected it since about December. In Jan. I confronted him directly and he denied the A. By valentines day he had ignored my b-day, was not helpful at all when I had been ill for 2 wks and was even more withdrawn so I demanded to know if he was involved with someone. He said, 'yes and I know you'll never forgive me so I'll be leaving you." He spent 4 mo in HEAVY fog, moving out after 10 days since he refused to quit sleeping with OW and I wouldnt let him stay out all night while he was living with me. He then moved into OW's condo because she took a job transfer due to being mad at him for not filing for D on me. When the condo was sold he had to move out so he moved back home saying he wanted to reconcile. But he really didnt- he just said the words I wanted to hear. But slept on the couch, never touched me and brought up D every wk for 4-5 wks.During this time he was secretly in contact with OW and she kept raising the ante every time he broke off with her demanding more action from him to divorce me or else she would quit taking his phone calls. Finally we got in some arguments and OW REALLY put the heat on and he secretly filed for D on me in mid--April. I think the actual filing was the thing that made him WAKE up because he said that same night that 'he finally realized he was making the worst mistake of his life.' The reality of what he was doing finally sank into him. After that he was very depressed and withdrawn for 2 mo - went to therapy with me but said that he didnt know if our marriage could ever be fixed. That he didnt know what he wanted. Finally after 2 mo of that he started participating in the therapy. About the lack of affection- it dwindled for several months before the A became physical, we fought more often around that time because his values had changed I didnt like it- after 15 yrs of marriage you think you know what someone's views and morals are and he seemed to be changing for the worse in that regard. I think part of the no affection during the A is due to pressure from the OP and guilt, confusion, and they suppress their feelings in order to rationalize to themselves thats its okay to be in an A. They blame their mate for everything wrong in their life because that way they can justify what they are doing to themselves and the OP is who they run to. Eventually they do have to come to terms with reality though because an A is just an escape from their life and its an illusion because no person is perfect not even their beloved OP!!!lifeismessy

lifeismessy,<P>You make so much sense!! How come our ws can't see it. I find it so hard to listen to him justify his behavior. <P>Interesting note, yesterday my neighbor came over to see how I was doing. She said "You probably need to accept that he just doesn't love you anymore" Ouch!! This lady is really nice--she has been the bs twice but is now the OW in a relationship that has been going on for 1 1/2 years.<P>She usually doesn't say much about this relationship--but yesterday I out right asked how it was going. She went into all this drivel--how they had been married for 27 years and no longer loved each other. The bs had to sell her house and move into an apt.--but that was ok--she likes it. She had never worked, and now she is working at a Holiday Inn and "loves IT!!".. She went on and on and finally I sad P--an affair outside marriage is wrong. She got a little defensive at that....but I don't understand. She has been in that position twice. How in the world could she do this to another person? All rational thought must just fly out the window.<P>I have had many opportunities to have an affair in this marriage. Was I happy all the time...NO!!! Did my H meet my needs...NO!!! Did he ever support my career....NO..he just complained about the long hours and no pay. I would never dream of having an affair. I wish now I had. I wish I could just inflict a little of the pain he has caused me over the years with no remorse. How sad. <BR>