<BR>Historical perspective. My W had PA with two tree service guys from 07-20-00 to D/D 01-17-01. Phone records had lots of evidence of her activity in calling these guys.<P>Since the A’s she now caries a couple phones cards. She has mentioned a few times that these are much cheaper that MCI or AT & T and that we should use these exclusively.<BR>I am trying hard to Mr. Trusting and she challenges me that I don’t trust her completely & she is seek more independence.<P>Even if cheaper, I would prefer to continue to use conventional phone service with records. Is it an overwhelming cost advantage to use phone cards?<P>I want some security with the records, but at same time don’t want to appear as non-trusting. Is there something I am missing in the apparent price advantage? Re there other advantages to using conventional method versus calling card. Any suggestions?<BR>

Excellent topic - one I am currently struggling with. In my opinion, I do not see any financial gain is worth not trying to regain trust. Let me explain. I believe that if your WS is trying to earn your trust then she should do whatever is in her power to do so (you cannot put a dollar value on trust). If it cost you a few extra dollars then so beit. <P>Maybe I have a skewed view on this, since I am in the same identical situation right now.<P>S&C

Hurting,<P> I agree with you about the records. I would feel the same way that you do. If she has nothing to hide then she would use the regular phone service. I think that she is talking to the OM and doesn't want you to know. How can you trust her if she wants to hide things from you? She has got to earn your trust again. She needs to understand that actions speak louder than words. At least that is what I think. <P> If I were you I would genlty bring it to her that you feel it would help you build trust in her if she would continue to use the regular phone service. That her actions would help you rebuild your trust for her.<P>Indy

take down the card number and there customer service number. Call them and tell them you think your card has been compromised. They dont know who owns the card. If you have the number or numbers of the om/ow then better yet. Just ask what was the last call or last 2 calls etc. on your card to make sure its not being used. Then you dont have to guess, youll have a piece of reality. But in the long run all that information means nothing, take what you can.

Your wife has other things on her mind. She should not be testing your trust right now. The extra money is nothing comared to the trust issue. Don't fall for her lines. It is a way to cover up phone activity. She should not make you feel guilty about not trusting her. Instead she should do everything possible to make you feel comfortable. I have the same issue with my wife who wants to return alone to the country where she had an affair. She is upset I don't trust her. But things could happen even if you have good intentions. No use tempting fate.

HH<P>AT&T, MCI and Sprint all have 5 cent a minute plans. Sprint has a flat rate plan that is even cheaper. <P>I've tried out some of those phone cards that claim things like 1 cent and 3 cent per minute calls. When you factor in the connect charges I figured that it averages out to about 10 cents per minute. So there is no savings there. Take a close look at her cards and I am sure you can throw out the financial agrument in a heart beat.<P>As for having a bill showing calls made. At this point in time your wife should be going out of her way to prove to you that she is being truthful. She needs to earn back your trust. For this reason alone she should make all of her long distance calls on a service that will provide a record that she can show you. Remember the rule of honest. There should be no privacy in marriage. What I have found is that when a couple gives up the popular idea of "privacy" they gain an wonder intimacy. It's well worth the trade.<P>However, this is not a perfect world. And it seems that your wife has not interest in earning your trust back. From most of what I've read in your posts she continues to taunght (SP?) you and demand her "right" to privacy. If I were you I would assume that she has the cards because she has something to hide from you. <P>Why not have a very calm discussion with her about this? Explain how you feel about this. <P>Has your wife agreed to follow the MB concepts? Has she read SAA and the other material?<P>------------------<BR>He loves not who does not show love.<BR>----William Shakespeare

Phone card issues continued:<BR>Yesterday I told my W that I thought it may make sense to use the phone card. Before I could say another word She spoke up that I could have my own & she could carry hers. I said I don’t want to spend that much money to have two cards that it made more sense to just keep them at home ( all though someone astutely pointed out that all you need are the numbers) and in fact I have the numbers for two of her cards & she has not used them in last 2 months except I can verify when she called me. But she continues to offer an arguments. Then she said she thought she knew why I was saying that. I said what & she did say, so I said because I can have a record of calls? She said Yes, I’m Mr. Phone monitor in sarcastic tone. <BR>I said that she had to earn my trust & not demand it – she makes it seem that I have responsibility to show my trust of her & she should not be concerned about demonstrating signs of honesty & openness. I said something like if you did not have anything to hide what makes the difference. She said she did not make any calls with the cards anyway & I said so what is the big deal, why do you have to keep throwing things back in my face, I said it seems rather strange that you have never used them until January (after D/D). She said she never knew about them before – I said BULL!! They’ve been around for 10 years (don’t really know, but I’m sure more than 6 months??!!). She agreed but with sarcastic tone “You’re calling all the shots now, so whatever!” Again theme of I’m putting her in a box.<BR>Also, in reference to my discussions about doing more together – she has favorite phrase “Are we joined at the hip?” Do you detect a little attitude here?<P>In our joint C she was open & honest about issue that were asked of her. I think a part of all this is that she had pretty much free will to do whatever she wanted & very little accountability & she always manipulated me as a giver & badgered me into submission on issue that were important to her, like not calling her and asking her questions in general – kind of she would tell me about her activities on a need to know basis – a lot of this activity was spent in different kinds of shopping – collectibles, pottery, antiques & cloths.<P>I hate to be Mr. Paranoid & it is easier to let things slide, but I am reminded that when I had my suspicions in November & December & even after finding her hidden cell phone bills at end of December, I was about to give up my investigation. She mentioned a calling card I did forgot she had, so I will try get that number to see if she has in fact not used it.<BR>She carries a little address book with numbers & she could have numbers in there that are not obvious.<BR>Cheatedon,<BR>Thanks for your reply! I like idea of online checking W/O her necessarily knowing!<P>I think a big part of her rebelli0ous actions are just a strong motivation to be independent and not in any way come close to me having some control over her. She wants it all her way! There has always been give and take in our relationship – I give & she takes! To change this routine & to ask her to pay some attention to my needs has caused her some stress.<BR>She told me yesterday that Physical attractiveness is big thing with her & that I lost control of my weight which was a problem for her. I’ve lost 25 lbs., but I told her that I’m not going to be age 40 again! She said she knew she put too much empahsis on importance of youthful figure, and that she's getting older. she empahasised importance of feeling good abot herself. Remember her two OM were 36 & 32! This she admitted in C was at partially a vanity thing. I knew this about her & this contributes to my anxieties when she wants to go to bar as mot of the men are below 40 – not sure I can successful compete & have assurance she won’t be easily tempted again by a young studly type or middle age thinner guy for that matter?!<BR>I need to study what Harley says about this!<BR>peace, <BR>HH<BR>

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Hurrian Hoosier:<BR><B><BR>I am trying hard to Mr. Trusting and she challenges me that I don’t trust her completely & she is seek more independence.<BR>?</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>I agree with the other posters here, she should agree to go back to the regular long distance in order to rebuild trust - you need to see those calls. Your peace of mind is more important than a few cents. She needs to be willing to do everything in her power to rebuild trust right now by proving herself trustworthy. <P>And of course, you shouldn't "trust her completely." She is not trustworthy. You would be an insane man to trust her right now. It takes a long pattern of trustworthy behavior to build trust again once it has been destroyed. Don't accept her "challenge" that you don't trust her; explain to her that, of course, you don't trust her. How could you??<BR>

That is a typical cheaters tactic to shut thier spouse up, to accuse them of "not trusting me." [usually always uttered by the most untrustworthy spouses!] My husband tried that ONCE on me and I just sat there with a stunned look on my face and said 'my God, of course I DO NOT trust you! Do I look insane?' His mouth dropped and he shut up real quick because he certainly was not expecting that response! <P>He NEVER EVER tried to pull that crap on me again and instead looked for ways to build my trust in him.

My situation deals with my H, his OW and OWH. My H had an affair with OW. for about three weeks it has been over, I think. OWH and I have been talking/venting with each other. OWH works out of town and only comes into town where his W, myself and my H live. We talk to each other lots, or at least used to. Since then, he and his W have tried to reconcile after my H booted his wife because my H, realized he still loved me. Well now OW does not want her H talking to me at all. So instead of him calling me from his NEXTEL provided by work or even his personal phone, he calls me via calling card. His reason for that is because it cannot be traced by his W, and my H does not want him calling me either, so on the CALLER ID, it comes up unavailable, so you cannot tell who is calling? SO I think she should give up the calling card and use usual and customary calling services as you suggested. Unless she is hiding something. If my H pulled something like that, it would definetly make me think he was still hiding something.

Dear Hurrian,<P>I have a friend on this Forum where her H uses phone cards for his contact w/OW.<P>My friend found out that most Phone Cards have an associated Website where if you know the Phone Card PIN, which you should as the owner of the card, you can view all the phone numbers called along with their respective durations and date/time stamps.<P>Just an FYI for you. Hope this helps you.<P>Jo<p>[This message has been edited by Resilient (edited August 15, 2001).]

Gently bumped to the TOP for Hurrian to see!<P>Jo

I had phone records that my W was making calls to OM. Now when I receive the phone records, not a call to OM. I DO suspect my W of using phone card but can't prove it. <P>At this point, stay with regular phone service over Phone cards. It will give you piece of mind.