I found out what my husband wanted to tell me...<P>He has decided to not attend college this fall. The stuff I told him about extraordinary precautions and the likelihood of him getting back with OW if he didn't take them really hit home he said. There are too many triggers/temptations at school.<P>It's a done deal. He's not going this semester. The ONLY thing that may change that is IF he can't find someplace to transfer to in the Spring that will accept all his credits (he's only one year away from graduating).<P>However, this means he needs to move away to go to college someplace else, probably a couple of states away. He wants all of us to move with him and we can start our life over together. I asked him if this means he is committed to me now, and he said yes, it does, he's made his decision finally.<P>I am in shock. I am scared to move and trust him, but it's something we have to do if we are going to get past this. He may end up living there for a while w/o us and then we can move down once the house is sold... He says we are definately going to continue counseling wherever we go and he will be moving in WITH us, fully re-committed, starting off fresh.<P>It sounds too good to be true. He will lose about $1500 in tuition payments for the fall (pretty much all the $$ he's made since he's moved out went towards this) and he's going to talk to his advisor tomorrow about transferring his credits and which schools would be good.<P>I also told him about the Harley methods and how if he HAD to stay in school this term, we could talk to them and they could help him make it so it was nearly impossible for him to be tempted by OW (extraordinary precautions). He said okay, but that it's unlikely he'll stay in that school.<P>It's such a major step, moving to a new state and everything, far away from family/friends (the only good schools he can attend are pretty far from here). But, the Harley's do say sometimes you need to do this in order to heal.<P>My friends tell me, don't do it! What if you move and he just does it again? Then you'll have no one around you to help! And, I'd have to quit my job and try to find a another one, but I've been thinking of doing that for a while anyway...<P>What should I consider before I take such a large step? My husband has already made up his mind about not attending school, but if we decide not to go with him to where his new school is, he says he doesn't know what he'll do. He also SORT OF agreed to do POJA (I explained what it was, he listened and nodded okay) and he also agreed that we will make decisions together for what is best for us.<P>And then I'm worried we may just be "running away". I mean, what's the difference between moving and starting a new life and running away? As long as we deal with the issues and don't sweep them under the rug, that's okay, right? I don't want to run away.<P>I am excited and I am scared at the same time. I don't want to make the wrong decision...<P>And, of course, I must realize that my H could change his mind again at any moment. Usually when he does this though, he was kind of shaky to begin with (oh, I was THINKING of doing this, or I'm not sure, but I think this). Not this time, this time it was DEFINATE, he IS doing this.<P>You can't imagine the incredible load I feel off my shoulders. I actually may not have to deal with OW back in my life in a few weeks. Yeah, it may happen, but it's no longer a definate. Wow.

Dear HBH great news!! I'm really happy for you. Maybe moving giving you a fresh start is what you need. You know your H best you say he said he is definitely ready to recommit to your marriage. I'm sure he's probably thinking some of the same things you are. I know you're excited and scared at the same time I'm sure I would feel the same way. Best of luck to you. <BR>cybil

If you both decide that you can put this stuff 'away,' be completely honest with each other, commit to letting each other be individuals w/in your marriage, protect and honor each other...etc...etc...etc..<P>YES, it can be done. You talked of moving several posts ago; if you were to separate.<P>If my H wanted to move, I would move...in fact we have talked about it...unfortunately I can't until the end of this school year...teachers are too scarce in California and I couldn't get out of my contract...but next year...look out...<P>YOU CAN DO THIS! If he brought this information to you...then you can believe it...But only you can decide if you want to stay and keep your marriage together...<P>(PS, I'd recommend getting <I>The Mastery of Love</I>. The Harley's stuff is great, but this book (by don Miguel Ruiz) helps get to the heart of YOU...who you are and what you want...)<P>My best to you...keep us posted.<P>Cali<P>------------------<BR><I>Live Impeccably In Your Word.<BR>Don't Take Anything Personally.<BR>Make No Assumptions.<BR>Do Your Best Always. </I>

Hi HbH,<P>Wow, what news!!!! See me smiling you? Yes, it is a risk. So is anything you do at this time. Question is how do you feel? Is he showing what he needs to prove himself to you at this time? Is he showing progress? How quickly you will need to relocate? <P>That is a big thing for him to do for his family. Is OW really going back to that school and not another one? oHHH, hate to mention that but if he is interested in his family, he may be willing to answer that for you. Tread lightly. This is all still real fresh for you. <P>I am happy for you now. Just keep that clear head and calm heart stuff we talked about. <P>Will try to call in a few minutes. <P>L.

Thanks Cybil. I appreciate your thoughts.<P>Cali, I would never want to put this stuff "away". I want to learn from this experience so it will never happen again. That's why it's a must that we seek counseling wherever we may move to. In fact, I would LOVE to start counseling with the Harley's NOW and then just continue wherever we move to... Maybe my H will go for that, not sure.<P>He still needs individual counseling (as well as myself) to deal with other issues I've spoken of on this site. You know, looking back, I really don't think my marriage was a problem at all. I think it was just all this other CRAP that my husband (and I) didn't deal with just built up on us and destroyed us from the inside. <P>And, God made me and my husband both face our biggest fears in life. And we survived (at least individually for now)! (mine was my H having an affair and his was being alone and whether or not he could handle it)...<P>Now, I wish I had picked a different fear, like SKYDIVING. Yeah, I would have much rather jumped out of a plane than had to deal with this... <smirk><P>It will be interesting being in a marriage where my husband actually KNOWS what he wants out of life, I'm no longer suicidal at the thought of him leaving me, and one where he no longer has frequent bouts of depression and takes it out on me (Okay, it will happen LESS often with counseling, can't say it will be gone for good yet).<P>I am so glad you guys were here for me, helped me see through my husbands FOG where he was just taking his anger/hurt out on me, and frequently giving me a swift kick in the a** (it's sore y'no!).<P>I'm sure the fog isn't completely clear yet though...<P>Okay, given the good mood I'm in, I should expect the fall of the rollercoaster any second, but I'll just be happy at the top of the hill for now.<P>I think I may request some combined marriage counseling BEFORE we move, just to see what his counselor thinks...<P>I am still in shock. I mean it used to be when I vented and thought the worst, it would come true and there would be my H hurting me again. But the past couple of weeks, I've been venting, thinking the worst, and my H has been surprising me with postitive actions to back up his words... I guess I am just not used to it. I hate not trusting my husband. By the way, my lovebank is back in the plus. I still don't feel love, but I am getting there...<P>HbH<BR>

Hi Orchid. I'm still up, so call away!<P>The plan is that OW is coming back to the school for a TA job until December, and then she is moving to Colorado permanently starting in January for a job she accepted there.<P>She could have changed her plans, but I don't care.<P>It would be pretty stupid for my H to lose $1500, move to a new school just for 3 months to be with her and then have her leave for Colorado. It just wouldn't make sense, but you know, I'll be checking the school roster anyway now that you mentioned it. LOL. You never really know, do you?<P>We would need to relocate before January, but I have a feeling my H would go down VERY soon to wherever it is we are moving and get situated there. I would prefer that, rather than have him in his apartment while OW is at the school just 5 minutes away. And YES, I will be checking that roster as well. <P>I wonder if I should be concerned about her flying out to see him or if that would just be me being paranoid. Or, can you ever really be too paranoid?? Hmmm...

Hurt what wonderful news! <P><"But the past couple of weeks, I've been venting, thinking the worst, and my H has been surprising me with postitive actions to back up his words"><P>You know, one time I tried to tell you - you will know when the change is real, the above to me screams volumes, and is one of the major differences in my H that I noticed. Kind of like Dr Jekyl and Mr Hyde- only Mr Hyde dies!<P>It's a risk to move, yea, it's also a risk not to move, and hey- if it doesn't work out I bet your current state will still be there and your friends and family will still care for you! I say go for it. You haven't come this far just to get scared of crossing the into the final stretch to your end goal by the fear of moving, right?<P>I've warned you about some other stuff and I think it's time for yet another warning- you are excited, you are getting back together- you may move- but it's not over there. Don't expect for a moment that even if he turns into the perfect repentant WS- even if he had the wisdom and caring of [H], and never again lays eyes on the OW, there is still rough road ahead.<P>Chances are good when you get back together you are going to end up hearing about more lies, the whole truth is probably not yet out, plus there is the whole host of terrible emotions you still have to deal with inside you. There could be no A without lies, so I'm just warning you to expect to hear about them and expect it will rock your world for a while. But with a Harley plan in hand you can come through this ok, you can recover, and there can be a day when life will finally seem normal again.<P>I don't want to scare you, but to be honest the worst of my feelings came after my H finally came home and was really done with the A and committed to me again. I went through fear, anxiety, anger, depression, irrational lashing out, for a while I didn't even recognize myself in my reactions that's how intense it was, and I know I'm not alone, I've read alot of posts from people in that position, just read one today in fact <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/forum/Forum31/HTML/004065.html." TARGET=_blank>http://www.marriagebuilders.com/forum/Forum31/HTML/004065.html.</A> <P>It's kind of a good sign though, as it turns out, that I felt comfortable enough to be able to test him in this way, but it was bad some of the stuff I did, and end in things will get worse or you could end up pushing away your chances for success if you do not at least try every day to follow your recovery plan, both of you. <P>Recovery plan you say?- yes, not plan A and B anymore- get out your SAA and start putting together an agreement and plan for recovery- stuff you need to get through this together, I wish I had done it long ago, would have if I'd have had the advantage you have of knowing about all this at that crucial time. Because I did not hold out for a recovery agreement then it took me many months- WS's have a common thread of wanting to avoid things that make them deal w/ the A at first due to guilt. When they first want to get back together is the best time to get it because you can avoid alot of potential pitfalls, plus they are alot more agreeable then, trust me.<P>Maybe I'm wrong, my situation was different and I didn't have this wonderful support when I went through it or so much time as you have had in dealing with it in Plan B either- I hope and pray yours will be a speedy recovery. It's better to be prepared for the storm that never comes than to be caught unprepared for a storm, right?<P>That aside, everything I said earlier still applies, this is WONDERFUL news, and go for it girlfriend! It's worth it, believe me!<P>

HBH-Great news!! I just wanted to let you know, I too moved, a few states away (just about 3 weeks ago, as a matter of fact), to be with him. He moved in March to take a job offer that was too good to turn down. I supported him in this move, OW did not. He was still doing alot of waffling at that time. We talked & talked about me moving here with him. One minute he'd be sure it was what he wanted, then he'd change his mind & not be so sure. I just told him it was ok to be afraid, that I thought it was normal for what had happened. I put no pressure on him (MOSTLY none!! It was hard!).<P>Anyhow, we're doing great! He often says things to me like, it's just me & you here. . .we're doing it all alone (w/out family and our friends from home). It's giving us something else to feel united about. It was a little scarry and I too heard, are you sure you're doing the right thing. It could happen again, maybe it's not over yet, etc. I had to decide, and I did. Not sorry yet!!<P>Harley often recommends moving away. Decide if it's what you want. . .if so, go for it with all you've got! Good luck!

Good to hear your news hbh. I read this thread, and your earlier one too. You have recieved good advice re control issues, and I can sympathize (as one who also thinks "too" much) with wondering how you can ever figure all this stuff out. My advice is to do the studying etc, and introspection, but don't get paralyzed, or expect perfection, make decisions and act on them. If you screw up that should become apparent and you learn more, but isn't really so hard. <P>Re H defining whether you are controlling, some truth in that. A common theme of the harleys is the "recipient" gets to define what is angry, disrespectfull, selfish, etc. and that works well methinks. It stops you in your tracks, and forces you to deal with someone elses perceptions of you, powerful stuff. It is not what we think of ourselves that is important in an interaction, it is what the other "sees"....right? So the answer is dialog, and feedback, and adjustment. Now obviously if your H is a control freak, this is disaster, but that becomes obvious (and they have to deal with your perceptions of them as well), and if they persist, then they have a personality disorder, and you just simply have to leave them.<P>Re your new current circumstances, as well as others who get to this kind of hopeful juncture, then worry about the ow etc..... I am a wee bit confused. The harley's make it clear what needs to be done....extraordinary precautions. If you know what your h is doing, where he is, every single second of the day, and he willingly participates (and if he won't, that is a serious red flag)....there is no problem. Your single biggest need right now is protection from ow. So if you need him to call you every 5 minutes, if you need to drive by everywhere he is continuously, if you need to assign him a human watchdog to accompany him..............whatever you NEED, he should willingly and cheerfully agree. <P>IMO the willingness of a ws to do this is a true reflection of a professed committment to attempt reconcilliation.....words are meaningless, action is what counts now. That would be the boundary I would set (yeah, I know strange coming from me, but believe me....it works, and is the only true gauge of a ws mind). We (w and I) got to this point, no contact etc. but I couldn't do it at first, so I just stopped letting her see my cell phone, or accounting for all my time. I wasn't angry, she had every right to expect my compliance. She was unhappy, but at least my lack of cooperation alerted her immediately of my failure. It was couple more months before I could achieve closure with the ow (and she with me). Months of torment for my w (even though ow was 2000 miles away, and she knew I was only talking). However there was a fair amount of LB as she tried to control when I would stop (ultimatums about committments, seperations, etc.), this actually (IMO) made the whole thing last longer, as the ow was the only person I could talk too. W just wouldn't accept that I was going to try reconcilliation, but I had to do it my own way in my own time, otherwise I would be coerced, rather than motivated.<P>I see no reason to move, or not go to that school and lose your investment....UNLESS your H is telling you he absolutely cannot control himself, and needs to be physically away from ow....but as you worry, she could track him down wherever he is. This is a critical juncture, I personally would not let him out of my sight. I think the risk (with extraordinary precautions in place) of staying here with you is less than the risk of him being somewhere else by himself. Good luck. <P>

HBH,<P>That is so awesome. I am really happy for you. I believe that all BS's want to hear the words fresh start someday, I know I do and I can probably speak for all of us. Hopefully, he will be able to find a college that will accept his credits without any hangups and you will find what you need in the town as well. I would go for it in a second if I were you, being cautious is smart. Seomtimes just the changeof environment will do you good. Keep us posted.<P>GC

Go for it! I would move out of there. If my H and I could afford to move right now , we would be long gone . Instead we are moving in 1-2 years. Good luck.

Thank you everyone, you are all wonderful, I could have never gotten as far as I have without you!!<P>ScaredinNY, thank you SO much for all of that. I really needed to hear that and get ready for what is to come... Making the recovery plan is key (I was so high, I forgot to even think about it!!). I managed to make an appointment tonight with Jenn while my husband watches the kids. Maybe I can even get him to join in towards the end...<P>The weird thing is that I feel like I have already forgiven my H for what he has done. I don't trust him at all, and I still get mad and hurt when confronted by triggers, but I forgive him. For 2 years I have lived through the worst hell imagineable, his depressions really took a toll on me and really changed me into someone I did not like. I was walking on eggshells ALL THE TIME, trying to please him and make him happy. He had to hit rock bottom before he would get the help he so desperately needed. It took his EA to turn PA for this to happen, and he's finally in counseling. <P>I would have preferred that it all happened a different way, but it didn't, and God made me face my biggest fear in life, and I got through it! And now my husband knows what it is like with another woman, AND he realized he WANTS ME!! His choice, he's not here because of commitment or responsibility or kids, he wants to work things out with ME because he realizes I am the ONLY one that can meet ALL his needs. He stopped running (or did he? - I still question this in my head, I don't want to run anymore, but I do want to start over)...<P>I don't forgive OW yet, but maybe in time. I still see her as the little witch that took advantage of my husband when he was most vulnerable. I talked to her on the phone many times and explained everything that was going on, yet she still chose to assist him in running away from his problems, instead of helping him deal with them, like the true friend she was supposed to be to him.<P>SnL, my husband still has VERY low self-esteem. All of the triggers just intensifies the guilt he feels. If he couldn't control himself 4 months ago, why should either of us believe he can control himself now? Even WITH extraordinary precautions, there's always that chance, why risk it if there is an alternate solution that we both agree on? and why put both my husband and myself through the intense pain of all these triggers, when there is an alternate solution??<P>HbH

Hi HbH - smiles to you!!<P>WAT

HBH<P>We are all so happy for your great news! It is certainly something that gives the rest of us hope.<P>Just a quick response to something your friends said about not having anyone in the new state. Well, you always have everyone here to turn to for support, just as you have in the past.<P>Good luck,<BR>Kathy