I am working on Plan A. WH completely confessed to PA last Monday, after confessing to only EA for last several months. Told me she ended it with him that day. I know this wasn't his choice as he had asked me for a D the night before. On several occasions in the last several months he told me he "wanted to work on our marriage", but nothing ever changed. So he comes home & tells me the A is over and he really "wants to work on our marriage" now.<P>While he was away from home, at his discussion with the OW, her BH came to speak with my WH and when I told him my husband wasn't home he proceeded to tell me of the A, not knowing if I knew or not. (or if our 7 yr-old were home). So, now that my H states the A is over, he told me he was going to call and inform OW and her H that he did not appreciate him coming to our home and told me the next day that he did that. <P>My H and I have many conversations of complete honesty and he was more like himself than he has been in over a year - very open, honest, with a sense of humor and happiness. He has told me that he is in love with the OW and, though he still loves me, feels he is "in limbo" and not sure what will happen, though he hopes we can work this out. I have always been very understanding of him and this situation in our marriage and always practiced Plan A before I even found this site.<P>During our last in-depth conversation last Friday I made the mistake of telling him that the story of his A had made it to my workplace, as the OW sister had told someone that told someone that I work with. He again was very upset, saying that it was for me that he was upset that he family had told someone that would cause this story to be brought to my workplace (55 miles from where the two of them worked together and she lives -- like he never thought anyone would ever talk about it, please !!!)<P>I begged him not to contact her. He is well aware of the Hurley step to Surviving an Affair and knows he shouldn't be having any contact with OW. I thought when he came home the next evening he was a little distant and I suppressed those thought. However yesterday it got the best of me and I ask if he had spoken to her. At 1st response he denied it and then admitted he had. My problem now is, when I ask what they talked about he gave be a flip answer, became angry and told me he didn't want to talk about it. <P>It makes me feel as if it isn't any of my business what was discussed. What do I do now? I want this to work, I feel he was beginning to have the "fog" lifted in regards to his true feelings about me, family life and the implications of his actions, he was becoming remorseful. Now I just don't know. Knowing him the way I do and that he says he loves this other person, I know he will not complete recovery unless he stops ALL contact with the OW. And I feel I am entitled to know when he does speak/see her. But I don't know, while working on Plan A if I should be vocal about my hurt and anger that he would talk with her when I ask him not to. Should I set ground rules - i.e. "you can't see her or...."???? <P>What to do???? Please advise....<P>Heartbreak25130<BR>

Heartbreak:<P>One of the important aspects of Plan A is to learn new marital behaivors that really get your WS's attention---in essence, giving them hope that the marriage could be much better. So to do this, one of the most effective places to start is with eliminating lovebusters.<P>So, with that in mind, can you show your hurt and anger. Yes---conditionally. You certainly can discuss with your husband that any further contact really hurts you, and makes you lose hope for the marriage. But you shouldn't do this by yelling and screaming at him---you need to relay this information in a calm manner. <P>You definitely want to encourage complete honesty at this point. You're better off knowing any slip-ups that your husband makes regarding contact---the alternative is that he will lie to you about these issues. To encourage honesty, you have to receive it without lovebusters. Calmly. Even if it's horrible stuff that you weren't expecting, the first thing out of your mouth should be "I appreciate you being honest with me".<P>Onto this statement:<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Should I set ground rules - i.e. "you can't see her or...."???? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>No, you can't <B>set</B> ground rules. That's a selfish demand, and those don't work in the marriage. If the two of you can get a copy of Give and Take, you can learn how to use the Rule of Complete Honesty, in conjunction with the Policy of Joint Agreement to try to negotiate these ground rules. But they have to be something that he "enthusiastically" agrees with, otherwise, he's not going to do it. And if he fears repercussions from you, he's going to sneak around.<P>Plan A is difficult. You don't have to be a silent doormat---but you do need to be very careful on how you phrase your displeasure with this situation. You're trying to make the marriage a safe place---and your husband is basically an affair-addled addict, and he's going to look for reasons to fail for a while. If he can get through withdrawal, things will get better.

First of all, the advise I give you has come from others. No, you don't want to set ground rules , you'll push him away. He with not like that. You should continue to planA. You should realize that he may not reveal everything that goes on when they are together. Be thankful he told you they talked. Don't push the issue. The less you push him ,the more he will reveal. He will feel comfortable talking to you,because you wont blow-up at him. PLAN A PLAN A!!!!!!!!!!!!!Keep it up.

Thanks for the responses !!! I have been following your advice and haven't even brought any of this up to him since he told me he didn't want to talk about it. I do think I am going to talk to him this evening, if I can find the right opportunity to bring it up - in a non-threating way. I don't want to LB, but I do want to know if he is being honest!!! I considered having our daughter go a visit with someone and telling him that we should talk, since we haven't in a while, but I'm afraid that would LB and I sure don't need any of that! <P>I do think he is making some effort, but I also wonder if he is doing just enough to "throw me off" the trail and keep me from asking too many questions that he will have to lie to answer.<P>So it is not unusual that H would continue to have contact with OW after saying that he wants to work this out....is there anything else I could be doing or saying to make him understand that I would rather know the truth, that he has talked with her, than for him to go back to lies????<P>And how do you hand the mood swings that come with this??...one minute I forget about it and feel like myself..the next I am so depressed I don't think I can go on...the next my mind is going in 50 different directions at once, all about him, us and the OW...the next I'm mad at him...the next I want him to put his arms around me and tell me this is all going to work out???? I think I need drugs !!!<P>Thanks again for the response and I hope to maintain control with no outbursts, if we do get a chance to talk tonight!!<BR>Heartbreak25130

With being the wife of Sad_n_lonely, he did the same thing. Asked if he talked to the other woman, he said no and then he said yeah, so what. What the Harleys told me is that when you ask, you sort of know what the answer is going to be. All you do is put the hurt aside, say, thank-you for being honest with me, how can we handle this situation so it doesn't happen again. You sit down and talk with the spouse to see how we can handle this. One of the positive things that can happen, is to have a 3rd party to which the spouse can call and say I am feeling like talking to the OP. Please help me, of course this 3rd person has to know the whole situation going on and to have honest values in this 3rd person. My H has no one to talk to, so Jennifer has offered herself for him to talk to if he feels the need to talk to the OW. <P>My H has talked to OW just this past Sunday. While I was gone shopping with our youngest son for school and camp, he took the opportunity to leave a message with the other woman. When I met him out at the barn we have, he said he left a voicemail and I looked at him with hard eyes. I said thank you for telling me but I did tell him that I felt sad and unhappy. Also, told him that this was uncaring and unthoughtful towards me. Besides we talked earlier in the week that he said he needed to talk to OW to tell her a few last things. I asked at that time to be there while he talked to her, and I would like to listen on the conversation. He took the opportunity while I was gone to talk to her, I told him that I would of loved to beable to choose for myself whether or not to be there when he talked to her. He said he was looking out for me and didn't want me to hear what he had to say. Jennifer told him it was unthoughtful and uncaring. <P>The WS is so intuned to having things for themselves, being selfish and everything to them. They have their life in the hands of 2 other people which are fighting for this one person. Sure, their ego goes up and they have this big macho attitude, I have 2 woman trying to gain my love. <P>My husband after 5 months of telling me it was an EA only, found out 1 1/2 weeks ago that it was also PA too. Boy did I ever feel rejected and unloved, ugly, hopeless, nogood and anything that was terrible. How could my H who professed his vows to God sleep with another woman who is such a whore. This is my attitude towards the OW. She has already had another EA & PA before my H. I am scared that he has contracted a disease of some sorts. I am going to have him have a series of tests to see if he comes out clean. I don't believe that this woman hasn't had more penises inside her than my H and the OM in her other affair. She is contaminated and so is my H now. This PA is so hard to take, I have only had one man in my life and that is my H. I sure would like to have an affair to find out what another man feels like, to feel his love, to feel his caring, to share his secrets with me only, and to have someone special to love. But being morally a good person, I can't. God would condemn me for good. The hurt part is that my H doesn't feel any remorse or guilt about having the affair. He feels that it was an act of God that the affair happened. Anyways, that is my point, take care.<P>

<BR>From reading these posts, I am amazed at how similar the rational behind the ws's actions are. It is almost scary. My h also shows no remorse or guilt over his affair. He feels that the affair was all my fault(so were his other 4 evidently). <P>He also feels that he is morally ok. Hard to figure. Oh well!!!<BR>

Thanks again to everyone for the replys. Thinker's situation sounds so much like mine !!! Just last night my H & I did talk and he too still says he is sorry that I am hurt and he didn't do more to stop the A before it was out of control, but he has no remorse or guilt because "at the time it just felt right"..."I felt like our marriage was over, long before I met OW"...so I guess the marriage vows and respect for family didn't come to mind when it was feeling "right". <P>My H said the he does hope this works out but he is scarred that he will never have the same feelings for me that he once did (and I suppose the implication of that is he won't have the same feelings he currently has for the OW). But he said he is giving this his best try -- I believe he is trying the best he will allow himself to try but he is still holding back because of his feelings for the OW. Like I said before he says he is in love with 2 different women and I think he really doesn't believe, right now, if even after all the effort, if he and I can work this out. But I truly feel that if the contact with the OW stops and he can work his way through withdrawal, he and I will be able to survive.<P>I am going to continue to Plan A. I am seeing more and more things that I need to work on myself and I remain hopeful.<P>My H did say that after he talked to the OW last Sat that he just didn't want to talk about it, but there was nothing else to it. But he did say that she has continued to call and try to talk with him but he has told her he is too busy right now to talk. I told him I was going to let him work this out himself, but I suggested he might consider telling her that he didn't want her to continue to call instead of he is busy -- I kept it all friendly and said if he was telling me that, that I would think he won't be busy later so I keep trying until he is busy. He agreed. <P>I would really like to block her phone number from calling his cell phone (as that is the way she is contacting him now) but after calling the cell company today they say there isn't a way to do that.<P>This place is the greatest place I have found for advice and support, thanks to you all for your responses.<P>Any more ideas how to handle the OW continuing to call??? I am almost afraid to call and ask her to stop calling - that just seems like it will lead to more problems and stiring the whole mess up - but I really want her to stop...<BR>Heartbreak25130

It sounds as though you are diong fine on plan A. My H tries to deny that he phones OW or if I ask him he says, "Not as much because it is probably better if we don't" The problem is that I have snooped round his Cellphone bills and have discovered that he still calls her nearly every day......this is less than before, however...he was calling her around five times a day, plus about 15 text messages a day back in May! And he reckons the PA ended at the end of March! You sound as though you have made more progress than us....just be careful not to blow it by trying to set ground rules or losing your cool.<BR>Good Luck<BR>Wounded One

Wounded One,<BR> Thanks for the encouragement to continue Plan A...I wouldn't say that my H & I are doing any better than you or anyone else....but, I do remain hopeful. I am just scared that he really is talking with her and just not being honest with me. But he swears that he is being as honest as he can be and I feel that I have to believe him or go crazy....I did get a little reasurance yesterday when he came home from work and said that he wasn't working next weekend as we expected that he had too, "so we can do something if you want"....my heart fluttered and about stopped...talk about deposits in my Love Bank !!! <P>I would still like to think that I could block the OW calls from his cell phone but can't do that. <P>Does anyone have an opinion on calling the other woman and asking her to stop calling??? I can't understand why she is calling him if she is the one that broke it off with my H....oh well, more things to think about and try to sort out...guess she is in withdrawal too, but the reason she gave my H for breaking it off with him was because she couldn't live with herself for thinking that she was breaking up his home and what this would do to his daughter....<P>Thanks again for the responses --- we are all in the same boat here -- heartbreak --- and the support from others means so much...<BR>Heartbreak25130