Steve H. and I finally connected yesterday.<P>I asked him about counseling my H regarding the questions I had. He said that first off, I should not be Plan Aing my H. Said Plan A is for WS's ONLY! Not for X's or friends or family. Said if you Plan A'd your friends or family they'd walk all over you because basically you are "boundaryless" in Plan A. <P>He said that I do not Plan B H either. He said I am to talk to him if I wish, BUT to protect myself he advised against it. Said "if" I do talk to H and H tells me he loves me and misses me that I tell him to pls stop. I told Steve I had been doing that and my H would reply "That's why you and I can't get along, we can't communicate". Steve H. told me to then hang up on him. To say "Bye" and hang up. WHOA! I never thought of that.<P>And as far as talking to my H, Steve H. was receptive to it, but I'm not sure that's what I want anymore.<P>So basically Steve H. said that I am to protect myself, that I am my own protector now. We talked about a bunch of other stuff, but most of it was about what a hard time I'm having coming to the realization I am D, and how much I miss my H (or who my H was).<P>I had a really bad night last night. Just very very sad. Thankfully I'm home today, trying to return to the mind-set I'm going to be okay no matter what. I had no idea what our legacy generation went thu when they experienced D. It changes your entire world and what you thought was your life.<P>Just an update .. I hope you all are well.<P>Jo<P>------------------<BR>"Remain flexible like a reed, as opposed to an oak which can snap in the wind"<p>[This message has been edited by Resilient (edited August 14, 2001).]

{{{{{Jo}}}}}<P>Did you ask Steve about his thoughts on sending Guido to kneecap your xH???<P>I'm sorry to hear that you're having such problems adjusting to the divorce. But Steve is right, you've got to protect yourself. You'll get through this, too.

Hi Jo - let Steve's advice sink in. This guy IS NOT your H - he's an imposter sent from the Mothership. Don't forget.<P>If you want, post your phone number and you can practice hanging up on folks. <P>WAT

Thank you, K.<P>I'm doing my best. I feel so much pain right now, I hope it'll subside soon. Still waiting for the friggin Wellbutrin to kick in.<P>I think I messed up bad, I found an email from my H dated in 98' (pre A and seperation). At that time I was 1 year into my new job. I read it and it tore me apart inside. He must had been feeling so lonely for me, he was attempting to reconnect with me and said such endearing things. I don't even remember reading it back then, I was so caught up in my career. OMG ... I was so uncaring, so selfish, so blind ... now I have to forgive myself and I'm not sure I can.<P>Jo

I know that you feel bad for your part in this. But remember, you weren't the only one making bad decisions. You most certainly do need to forgive yourself---and you've worked really hard towards trying to repair the marriage. You need to grieve---and then get past the forgiveness. <P>I wish I could make it happen for you in a weekend. But it's gonna take time. You'll make it, tho---I guarantee it!

Jo,<BR>Remember you can blame yourself for part of this - but you can't blame yourself for the other 50%. I know you are having a hard time with this because of your caring and loving nature. My heart goes out to you. I know how you can look back and see how you could have done things differently. I am glad you talked to Steve, I hope it made you feel better.<P>Remember we are here. aftershock

Dear Jo,<P>I am glad you had your session with Steve H. Wow, he wants you to take a hard line. This is him knowing how weak in the knees your H makes you feel after all this time? <P>Well, you are a resillient woman. You will survive. Your XH, is learning that he let a wonderful woman slip away. You though, save your love for you. In time, the man who will value you will come along. Be it your H or someone else. Time will tell. From what I hear, you are quite a catch. Keep the dignity and respect for yourself. The combination of your inner and outer beauty makes you irresistable. Save it for the right person. You are worth that and much more. <P><<<<hugs to you>>>>><P>L.

Dear Jo,<P>I am two steps behind you. We are in the process of the divorce. I served my H with restraining orders last weekend. Now I am trying to figure our finances, get ready for school to start next week, and I have done nothing but cry. <P>This is so hard. I didn't want to be here. Last night I found out my H and his OW are looking for a place on the lake in KC. They will have a pool, tennis courts, etc. I will have them in my life forever. It is so depressing. He is going to get out of this marriage with money, a new girlfriend and his kids(at least for every other weekend). I am so depressed.<P>The feelings just don't quit, do they? Hard to move on.

Ye-up, protect yourself.<P>I was actually shocked about the Plan A advice. I always thought it was a good idea to Plan A everyone!! Now I'll ahve to be mean to some people... hmmmm... <P>I am sorry you're having continued pain about the divorce, but understand it... it's hard to let go of a lifetime.<P>(((((JO)))))

Thanks everyone. I'm still somewhat sad. So hard to snap yourself outta this funk. I talk to Lora lots, she's my life line, but she has probs of her own. She's in recovery and her H is starting to back peddal. So I'm really leaning on you guys for now. I'd go over to the D/D forum, but I feel safer here with you knuckleheads.<P>I'll try not to be so down in the future. I know everyone here is having a terrible time and heartbreaking experiences. But I'll tell you guys something .. if I can make it thru THIS, you guys can too, whether you reconcile or not. My prayers are that you all will recover your marriages and live a better family life than you ever dreamed possible. <P>MiseryinMissouri,<P>Honey, I am so sorry to hear this news. From all your posts I have read, seems your H is in a MLC. I know labeling it doesn't make you feel much better, but he certainly is with the Aliens. Since I am a couple steps ahead of you the only advice I can offer is to not let what your H says to you make you believe you're responsible for his A. There is no way in hell any of us are responsible for that action. THEY OWN IT!<P>When I think back, I was not that "HAPPY" around the time my H started his A, but I wasn't unhappy either. But hey, I didn't go outside the marriage and have an A and break my vows, and I had plenty of opportunity. I work with 2,000 ppl, and 98% of them are male engineers .. and they're not all dweebs either. <P>You don't know for certain what will happen in the future, MM. That OW may end up dumping your H for a better catch. And as far as $$, it's over rated, it does not buy happiness. They, OW and your H, can pretend for a while, sure, they'll be in nirvanaville for a term, but once the euphoria wears down and real life kicks in, they'll have to look at each other with binoculars and see things they hadn't seen before .. OMG NOT FLAWS in my Fantasy partner!!! Just give it time and let it play out, there's lots more twists and turns before the proverbial Fat Lady Sings.<P>I am truly sorry for your pain, I know it well. It's all too real and doesn't go away. The worse time for me is in the morning. And the ironic thing is I loved the mornings before this all started. I always woke up so happy and bubbly, now I wake up crying. Keep posting to me MM, I'll keep an eye out for you. Please know you're not alone. I'm praying for you and your situation. I'll pray your H will be touched by God and realize what a complete schmuck he's being. Take care, Hon.<P>Lv,<BR>Jo

Thanks Jo,<P>I appreciate your caring. I see so many hurting people going through this same situation. My neighbors h left this week, my brother called and said his wife wants a divorce--and then of course my on-going saga.<P>This is so hard because of our lost dreams, because of him being in my life for 25 years, and because of the kids. People say, shake it off, you don't want him back anyway--move on with your life. I wish it was that simple. It would have been so much easier if he had died. Awful to say--but I really mean it. The thought of having to continue to see them really depresses me. Gosh, if he wants to go, why doesn't he just go and get out of our lives. But he won't ever leave the kids--especially his son. And he is the last person I want as a role model for my son. <P>Boy, I can truely feel your pain. How do we go back to being the confident, successful people we were before we met them? Is it because I am older that I am more frightened now of being on my own. Or is it just that I have been with him so long. Oh...I am asking myself all these questions and I just don't know. <P>I guess we both have to just keep trying to look at one day at a time. It is hard to get out of this slump tho. Any ideas on how to do that?

I was surprised at that advice, too. I didn't think Plan A implied that you are boundaryless - just that you avoid disrespectful judgments, etc... What about all the discussions on this board concerning how Plan A does not make you a doormat?

MiseryinMissouri wrote:<BR>"Boy, I can truely feel your pain. How do we go back to being the confident, successful people we were before we met them? Is it because I am older that I am more frightened now of being on my own. Or is it just that I have been with him so long. Oh...I am asking myself all these questions and I just don't know."<P>Well, before this happened I was in management, I stepped down for a term because I couldn't concentrate on anything. Some ppl at work know about the D, they're very tight friends. But ppl that know me and don't know, ask why I always look down now and why I never smile anymore. I didn't even know I was doing that.<P>On the week-ends I use to get so frightened, because everyone else was going home to family and I was going home to an empty house filled w/memories. All the food in the house was what H liked, all the decor we picked out together, just classic of being left ... abandoned. Somehow I got thru it. The holidays were the worse, I have no family really, my in-laws were my family. So to get thru the first year of seperation I slept thru the Holidays. <P>Now, I simply try one day at a time, no expectations. And every day is different. Some worse than others. I cry alot. I feel disconnected. And really really lonely. But not lonely just for anyone, lonely for my H.<P>I believe what they say about Time Heals is true, MM. But I also believe it's what you do with that time that can make it healing. So I'm trying to be productive and do things I like. And I'm hoping by the time the Wellbutrin kicks in I'll be on my way to feeling somewhat human again. Every time I feel really down I tell myself it's necessary to feel this way to get to where I'm going. There's no way around it. I tell myself it's temporary, and things will get better. Sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn't, but at least I'm trying. <P>And then there's the ppl that have situations so much worse than I do. So I guess I'm blessed in many ways. I have my health, I have a job and a roof over my head. I could be a lot worse off. <P>I can't imagine what it must be like with children involved. My heart breaks for the families with kids. It's so wrong to do this to kids, just all the way wrong, so so selfish. <P>MM, I read that Divorce link and it stated that Death of a Spouse was 100 in terms of stress and D was 70. Personally I would disagree. I believe D is harder than death in some cases. At least there is still respect and integrity when your spouse dies. You don't suffer the humiliation, betrayal and rejection you do in D when someone dies. And when you D your spouse is still able to drag you thru more pain, which can last a very long time when there are children involved. I'd rate D 110 on the stress meter.<P>Take care of yourself, MM. I'll be looking for you.<P>Lv,<BR>Jo<P><p>[This message has been edited by Resilient (edited August 14, 2001).]

I too was very surprised, Nelly. When Steve Harley said it, I made careful note of it and I didn't get a chance to question it. But I am quoting him precisely. <P>Perhaps someone else here on the board can illuminate us.<P>Jo

boundaryless means vulnerable with your feelings, your emotions, if you gaurd you cannot love someone rightly, that is different than being a doormat. Sort of like porn, I can't define it, but when I see someone being a doormat I know it.<P>res, and misery, and the rest of you who are abandoned, you break my heart. I just wish I could do or say something to make it all better. Maybe the best thing I can do is tell you I won't abandon my wife of 28 years....I can't say how it will all end up, but she (and I) will have made a good faith effort to reconcille. It means making myself vulnerable again to her, and I don't like doing that, but I am. How much of that is a result of being here, and reading your stories I do not know, but it makes a difference.<P>for a little smile go here<BR> <A HREF="http://www.dancinghamsters.com" TARGET=_blank>www.dancinghamsters.com</A> make sure you have your speakers on <P>btw jo, we talked with jen tonight too, she gets on my case all the time, but I like her..... partly cause she sticks up for me too!!<P>

Resilient,<BR>I have been where you are and it is hard. But you can and will survive and hopefully you won't end up like me and back on the boards with your next relationship.<BR>But, that's not what I'm here to tell you. The best way to get yourself out of this funk and start living again is to start giving. Volunteer at the Animal shelter, start a Girl Scout troop, be a Big Sister, be a youth coach, be a mentor, but give of yourself. Volunteering is a great way to get some plans over the weekends that can be sooooo long,<BR>giving of yourself to animals or children or elderly is a great way to get out among people..of the gentler and more trusting sort, and it will make you feel better. I knew nothing..absolutely zilch about animals and a friend literally drug me kicking and screaming to the shelter..gave me something to look forward to..helping something else. <BR>Get up, dry your eyes and look through the paper...someone out there needs you and needs you now..go find them.<BR>T

Ahhh, how sweet of you to remind us what knuckleheads we are!!! <BR>I am surprised by what steve said! I understand the protection aspect, but need to digest this further.<BR>I sure feel for you at this time. It is hard to recognize our own parts, but that is part of the healing process.<BR>You are very special that you are seeing it.<BR>(((((hugs))))) cl

Resilient--<P>Remember that recognizing your part in contributing to the environment that led to the affair is MUCH MUCH different from blame...<P>Only your H and OW can accept true responsibility for following through with the A...that was their choice...<P>I was re-reading "Secrets of the Vine" today because I am struggling with the 'letting go' concept...The part I read discussed looking at "Where is the pain coming from? Why am I being tested or pruned? What in my life do I need to give over control of to God?" My head and heart are starting to understand that it is both my marriage and my H...I need to give this over to God completely...How? that is my struggle...Control...control...control...I keep coming back to that...<P>So...my advice is to look at where your pain is coming from...look at the overall test of faith...what are you still keeping from God? Give it over to him....let go...<P>Yeah, I know the words are easy to say...I keep saying them...I want to believe them...and I still struggle...I am still unable to TRULY have faith...<P>Cali<P>------------------<BR><I>Live Impeccably In Your Word.<BR>Don't Take Anything Personally.<BR>Make No Assumptions.<BR>Do Your Best Always. </I>

Jo,<BR>I don’t have any real advice for you, but I want to let you know that I read your post. I’m so sorry to hear about what you are going through. Sometimes we have to move on with life. I know it is not fair that this thing happened to us, but we deserve much more than this. Check out a book title “Rebuilding: when your relationship ends” and read it if you have not read it already. It might help you cope with what you are going through right now.<P>{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{Jo}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}<P>Take care,<BR>OOOO<BR>