I have always been the type to feel that something wrong must be somehow my fault. Yes, insecurity. When my H and I were separated for 9 months almost 6 years ago, it was due to what I thought was an EA with my (ex) best friend. It was a horrible time and I never thought I'd get thru it. It destroyed our friendship and almost destroyed our marriage. Well, we ended up back together and things went pretty well for another 5 years. Then, last year he started acting very distant again. We ended up back in counseling and I told the counselor that this "affair" issue had to be resolved. It was basically swept under the rug last time. <P>Well, I found out the truth. It was a PA, including in MY BED which destroyed me. Even though it happened years ago, it feels like yesterday now that I know. These were the 2 people I gave my time, love and energy to. <P>Back then, I started to feel guilty. Thinking if I was a better cook, more adventurous, more knowledgeable about computers, etc. he wouldn't have left. I didn't tell anyone for a long time, I was trying to protect their images and reputations. Well, I finally realized how unhealthy it was and started talking to close friends and family members. Then I started feeling guilty. I told myself if I truly loved them, I wouldn't say unkind things about them, etc. I finally realized that I was entitled to my hurt and that it was okay to discuss it. They made their bed, and so they had to suffer the consequences.<BR>I told myself I'd never be stupid enough to blame myself again. I was a good wife and a great friend. They acted extremely selfishly and had no regard for my feelings.<P>Well, guess what? It's been 6 weeks since I found out the truth. And now I'm feeling that way again! My counselor keeps giving me this forgiveness stuff and I get hard on myself for not feeling forgiving yet. Then I read an article that said you will know when you've truly forgiven when you are happy to see that person on the street. Since my ex friend claimed she did nothing wrong, and lied to make herself look good, I can't imagine EVER feeling that way. My H is going to counseling and is very sorry so I know with time that I will be able to forgive him. <P>But I don't know how long it will take me to forgive her. And what if I can't? I worry that one of them will die before I've forgiven them and then I won't be forgiven when I die. I tell myself things like I should be happy for her and want her to do well. I should be grateful that my H is back and keep my mouth shut.<P>But I can't. I don't nag him everyday. I do write him notes explaining how I feel which he says is fine. He knows I need to share my feelings during this awful time. <P>How long does it take to forgive someone who lied to you for almost 6 years? They promised not to tell anybody to protect HER marriage. Surprise, she has since divorced. And he still didn't tell me when he knew I needed to know.<P>I guess I'm just being too hard on myself right now.

I'm just curious. Has she asked for your forgiveness? If not, how can you forgive someone who not only does not WANT your forgiveness but is not sorry for what she has done? I am pretty solid in my biblical education and I don't believe it says that we are required to forgive the unrepenent.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by maggierose:<BR><B>How long does it take to forgive someone who lied to you for almost 6 years?<BR>I guess I'm just being too hard on myself right now.</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Maggie,<BR> Let me say that in my interpretation of God's Word, WE CAN"T forgive anyone!! Only God can. In other words, WE may WANT to, even TRY to, but it is really only God at work in our hearts that can truly give us the "tools" to forgive someone.<P>Having said that, I think you need to stop "beating yourself up" now. You WANT to forgive. In MY "religion" that's good enough! All you need to do is go to God, and tell HIM that you WANT to forgive, but it is very hard, almost impossible to do it alone. HE - and HE ALONE - is able to give you the grace and ability to "feel" like you have forgiven these two. I also think you cannot fogive anyone else, if you are unable to forgive yourself, and I sense from the way you are talking, that you have been having a very hard time forgiving yourself, too.<P>Please, just ask God to forgive YOU, for God to give you the right heart to forgive THEM, and then BELIEVE He has done it! It may not feel like it at first, but if you believe it, God's Word says "It is done." And then you may have to ask God to remind you Constantly that you have forgiven them, so don't let the hurt feelings return to your mind anymore!<P>God Bless your struggle, and may He help you fight and win this battle for your heart.<P>Lupo<P>

I like something I read about forgiveness is letting someone off the hook. It's giving up the right to want to hurt them back. You CAN forgive someone, even if they haven't asked for it. Do you feel like you want to get even? or feel like he needs to be punished? That is what is God's right and responsibility - not ours. Don't forgive your H for him, do it for you. Internally - or verbally. Internally is the best way - if he hasn't asked for forgiveness. That way, he doesn't think he's gotten away with something - or got something for nothing. But telling him may make you feel better, and may bring him to repentance.<P>In the story of the prodigal son, the father welcomed his son back with open arms, and ran towards him - BEFORE the son said anything to repent. I believe this is how GOd wants us to forgive each other.<P>FOrgive them for YOU. Harboring this bitterenss and anger only hurts you. Satisfy yourself in that God will - or has - provided any discipline necessary for your H and the OW's actions. Even if you aren't aware of it - He will do it. He promises us this.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Faith1:<BR><B><P>In the story of the prodigal son, the father welcomed his son back with open arms, and ran towards him - BEFORE the son said anything to repent. I believe this is how GOd wants us to forgive each other.<P>.</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>It is important to note that the prodigal son WAS repentent even though he did not verbally say "I'm sorry" before he ran into his father's arms. But then, neither did the father verbally state "I forgive you;" it was obvious in thier actions. I think that is the key thing here. <P>The Bible is pretty clear on the issue of forgiveness being conditioned upon repentence [and that is God's personal standard of forgiveness throughout the Bible]:<P>Luke 17:3 So watch yourselves. "If your brother sins, rebuke him, and if he repents, forgive him.<P>Luke 17:4 If he sins against you seven times in a day, and seven times comes back to you and says, `I repent,' forgive him."<P>I do agree with you that the real issue here is maggierose's bitterness because that is only harming her and she needs to work on alleviating that bitterness. However, her guilt in not feeling forgiveness is not justified because the person in question is not sorry.

Dana, I sure can't argue with those!<P>I think, for me, the main thing is to let go of the past. Guilt and unforgiveness - to me - are both holding onto to something that has already happened. We can't go back and change what has happened. No amount of apologies, lectures, pleas, repentance, good gestures, etc.... will ever undo or change what has been done.<P>Maggie, I know this is hard. And to answer your question, I have felt these feelings too. GUilt - why didn't I see the "signs" of unhappiness from my H and do something about it? Why didn't I do something about his small porn and e-mail problem in the past - that I thought was nothing? Why was I so angry and hateful towards H and OW? Why did I feel like I was a failure and it was all my fault?<P>I felt TERRIBLE the first few weeks after D-day.... blaming my H for running out and having an A and giving up on me and the marriage without giving us a chance, and wasting the last 11 years, and hurting me, etc... I could NOT get past this blame and anger for several weeks. It consumed me. <P>But, the more I realized that I couldn't FORCE him to feel sorry, to come home, to change his mind, to make me feel better... I learned that I was the only person that could make me feel better. I chose to forgive him and OW - and to me - that meant turning them over to God. I couldn't punish them or change them. And I was letting them control my LIFE: my production at work, my sleep, my health, my realtionships with other people, my sanity, etc.<P>I can't argue with Dana's scripture. I just know, from what I've read, and from what I experienced, I chose to let it go - put it in the past. Not sweep it under the rug - it will never be forgotten. But put in the past, and chalked up as my H <B>made a mistake</B>, and I will not remain bitter, and I will not hold a grudge - no matter what he chooses to do. I cannot judge whether or not his sins are worse than mine - I don't want HIM holding grudges for what I've done - perhaps without realizing or apologizing.<P>2 cents <BR>Faith1<P>------------------<BR>Faith1<P>"Then Jesus answered, 'Woman, you have great faith! Your request is granted.'"<BR>Matt 15:28

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Faith1:<BR><B><P>GUilt - why didn't I see the "signs" of unhappiness from my H and do something about it? Why didn't I do something about his small porn and e-mail problem in the past - that I thought was nothing? </B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Whoa! You rang my bell with this one, Faith! I have seen this same comment often around here. This is exactly what I did before I married my newest husband. I ignored all the signs and viewed his "little internet flirtations" as harmless nonsense, maybe even a little pitiful. That was very unfortunate for me, because things only escalated later. I guess the moral of the story is to ignore problems at your own peril! Never again will I ignore suspicious behavior.<P>And believe me, I do agree 100% that one shouldn't hold grudges! I can't stand to waste one minute on a grudge - it's too painful. So I should clarify that while I don't forgive someone who doesn't ask for it, I surely don't carry grudges and I have recovered from any bitterness with the help of God. I just don't believe that the 2 are mutually exclusive; that I can [and do!] recover from my bitterness without it being contingent upon forgiveness.<BR><p>[This message has been edited by Dana114 (edited August 16, 2001).]

I have been led to believe that we MUST forgive anybody who harms us, whether we feel like it or not, whether they are sorry or not, whether we want to be with them/trust them again or not, etc. I was told by my christian counselor that forgiveness is not a feeling, it's a decision. It's also something you do over time and do over and over again.<P>No, my "friend" did not ask for forgiveness. When I wrote her a forgiveness letter before (when I was convinced it was EA only) she basically said that it was my fault, she wanted nothing to do with me, etc. She also told all of our mutual friends that NOTHING happened and she was being persecuted for nothing. My H said even now, she would deny it as that is how she copes. <P>She did call once years ago to say that she was "sorry for handling this whole thing wrong. I was just trying to be his friend." She never mentioned that the night before, she was out until 2 a.m. with him in her car, having sex. I still tried to be friends with her for a few months afterward, but she basically acted like she hated me. <P>As far as holding a grudge or feeling bitter, I would think that anybody would be so soon after finding out what really happened. I've been lied to for too long and made to look like a lunatic for thinking anything happened. What they did was worse than I even imagined. I give my H credit for finally telling me and I appreciate his going to counseling very much. Do I trust him? Not yet. Do I like him? Not right now. Do I respect him? Not currently. I know I will again but I'm not going to force myself to feel things that I really don't. I did that before and tried to be little miss perfect wife and friend. It got me nowhere and I won't do it anymore. It's MY turn now and if he can't wait, that's his choice. I waited 6 years.

It took me a while to get over my initial anger at finding out about my H and OW#1. I'd say a good couple of months... at least!<P>I knew I still loved my H, no doubt about that. I was able to make that concious decision to forgive him, because that's something "I" needed to do in order to move on (with or without him).<P>I have no intention of forgiving OW#1 (she had been a fairly close friend of mine for over 2 yrs prior to the A). I used to feel I had to, but realize now that I do not have to.<P>My anger towards her is still there. It's been almost 5 months now since I found out about their PA starting. But day by day, that anger is slowly turning to pity. I really do feel sorry for her.<P>She never admitted to me either, that her and my H got physical... even after H admitted it! What's with that, huh? I know you can relate to that one. I feel sorry for her b/c she cannot be truthful. I feel sorry for her because she rationalizes all of her behaviours with other men (my H is not the only one) b/c she is unhappy in her marriage. I feel sorry for her b/c she has a daughter (little spoiled ***** I might add) who is learning her mother's behaviours.<P>Then I feel sorry for myself. I am sorry that I don't have enough money to pay some researchers to cut out the area of my brain that has any memory of OW#1 (heheeh). Seriously though, I am sorry that I cannot let it go yet. I am also sorry that I haven't found it in myself to forgive myself quite yet. <P>Perhaps that is an area you might be best to work on? To forgive yourself for your part in the environment prior to the A, for being her friend in the first place, etc? Just a thought.<P>Karen<BR>