Damnit, damnit, damnit. How does my H always do this to me? I went back and read my old posts, I KNEW it, I KNEW IT!!<P>This whole affair thing was just ANOTHER one of his freakin' ways to try and push me away and make me hate him. His way of "fixing things", make me hate him so much that I divorce him and he can go run off to the end of the world and blame me...<P>For 3 years I've been dealing with this. My husband will completely and utterly anhilate me down to the core. So much so that I get completely depressed and many times suicidal (I know - this is my fault, I shouldn't let him have that power over me). It started off really little and just got worse and worse every time until the latest escapade which was the affair.<P>Of course, some time after this total destruction of my self-worth/being, my H would come back and be TOTALLY lovey-dovey, I'm so sorry, let's work things out and everythings wonderful until the next time. THIS IS THE FUC**NG STATE I'M IN NOW. I'm not in recovery, I'm in, What's next??? What can be worse than an affair? Hmmm? Let's see, he can start beating me up, or maybe get me to love him again, thinking we are recovered, and do it all again... That would be pretty devastating. <P>My counselor warned me about this, but I didn't listen. Each stunt he pulls gets worse and worse. <P>Let me clarify. My husband does love me, very, very much. I am the ONLY thing that keeps him in this marriage (and it's been like that for 3 years). But he does not like the family life. He thinks he's a horrible father. The kids completely and utterly overwhelm him and he constantly loses it with them. They make him SO mad. In order to try and "get away" from being overwhelmed, he hurts me. He tries his hardest to get me to hate him so that I will divorce him and he is forced to go run away and he can blame me for it all...<P>He doesn't MEAN to do it. To see the guilt and shame he feels after the fact would make your heart rip. <P>Oh, don't get me wrong, the affair still had all the normal stuff to it. EA, turned PA, etc. It happened because he ran to her to get away from his family. She allowed him the ability to get away and not face his problems and still have someone to be with (his biggest fear - being alone). <P>I'm so mad at him. I mean, we BOTH planned this family, both of us. Yeah, the third child was a surprise, but NOT the first two (he now claims the first was - yeah right, he better NEVER tell her that). Why do my kids and the whole family atmosphere overwhelm him so much?<P>I mean, you should see him. We had a WONDERFUL two days, just the two of us. It was awesome, he showed me so much love. Then we get the kids from his mother's and literally within 10 minutes he doesn't even want to talk to me. He is yelling at them about something or other and I can tell he just wants to jump out the window they are getting to him so much (they were being really screamy and loud in the car). <BR>He started blaming me (ding, ding, ding - that's what he ALWAYS did/does). I took too long getting them from his mom's (he was in the car the entire time, not moving because he didn't want to face his parents, he wouldn't even say hi to them when they went to see him). It was my fault that we didn't bring two cars (so he didn't have to deal with them on the way back) because he suggested it at the beginning of the trip and we discussed it and decided we didn't need to. <P>My fault, my fault, my fault. And NONE of it was!!! I talked to him about this and how he can't get angry at me or blame me for this stuff (deja vu - we had the SAME conversation 2 years ago when he started blaming me for the anger he felt at our then 6 month old). <P>Damnit. It doesn't matter if we recover or not. It doesn't matter. I've been through this SO many times before... It's always wonderful and it always gets better -> then comes the pain again. <P>The ONLY thing that gives me hope is that he is FINALLY in counseling. FINALLY after all these years and trying to get him to go. <P>But I don't know what to do. He can't move back in, he's right. The kids just aggravate him and get him SO mad that he wants to run away and leave. Moving is NOT going to help us, he needs to deal with himself. <P>He has ALMOST agreed to the MB plan, and he's pretty much willing to do whatever it takes to ensure to me that he is committed to ME (no more OW). Oh, he's not committed to the family he says, just to ME. He doesn't know if he wants that kind of life, he just knows he wants me. So, he's adamantly opposed to ANYTHING that will make him lose me and not let him spend time with me (like seperation). <P>I don't know what to do. Obviously, there is no hope for us if he can't deal with his issues and want to be a family and live with the kids. It doesn't matter how much he loves me or wants me, it just won't work. So, do I just let him go live by himself, dating him while he works this out in counseling? Do I actually attempt to do a MB plan (he is willing), but do it while seperated since he can't take living at home (it's REALLY bad)? <P>Of course, this explains why he didn't see the kids for 30 days when he first moved out, and also explains why he would come over to visit me at night after they were asleep or before they woke up. Or I would always be there when he saw them (he only took them by himself twice in 2 1/2 months).<P>Oh, and don't forget him blaming for "keeping him from the kids" and "making it so he can't see them". He ALWAYS tries to make ME feel what he feels inside. ALWAYS. If he hates himself, he hates me, if he's mad at himself, he's mad at me. <P>Someone kick me in the a** and make me realize that I am riding another one of his "highs" and pretty soon it's going to crash down again and he'll go on to the next thing he can do to try and get me to hate him.<P>My husband is a very complex person. Something is wrong, please pray for me that the counselor will find out what this is and help him. <P>What can I do in the meantime? Do I have hope? Still work on my marriage? Seperate from him until he works out his issues (that may send him into another DEEP depression). Let's not even go there, I mean, I get nightmares just rememebering what he was like when the depressions would hit... ugh.<P>I am so glad I am back to being myself again. The past 3 years really took a toll on me and I turned into someone I didn't like (plus having 2 kids during this time didn't help things). I have you guys to thank for that.<P>Oh, and I'm not dam* controlling. Yeah, a little bit. But EVERY SINGLE other woman I see or am friends with controls their husband OUTWARDLY way more than I ever did inadvertantly to my husband. I'm fixing the tiny bit of control I had over him, I won't LET him let me control him anymore. I'll make him go do stuff on his own and not let me do it for him (okay, isn't this control in itself??).<P>Keep in mind, that even though I am venting here, all I am doing is coming to grips and REALIZING what is really going on. My H hasn't done anything towards our marriage that is not positive or working toward reconciliation since any of my last posts (so far). <P>But this is ALWAYS what happens. I can't make the cycle stop, I can't. Only he can, but what do I do in the meantime?? I mean, MAYBE this time will be different cuz' of the counseling, maybe, just maybe, he'll get the help he needs. Should I keep going?<P>I keep praying that God isn't looking to me to stop this on my own. I need to put him in control. I pray that he finds it in his heart to end this cycle for me, however that may be. And I will still pray this end leads to all of us being a loving happy family. Pray for me.

Oh yeah, I think I should clarify one thing. Right NOW, my H is doing a great job meeting my needs. He's willing to make a plan for recovery, and I really do believe things will be fine for us again.<P>However, I am not so convinced that my H will not go off on one of his "I am the worst person in the world, let me make my wife feel that way so she will hate me too and get rid of me because I don't deserve her" kicks 6 months from now.<P>I suppose I should just put my faith in God and his counselor. Maybe, just maybe, he has finally hit rock bottom and can pull himself out of this mess...<P>I am so scared that he will hurt me again. I mean, at this point, the things he can do to me that are worse than an affair are pretty scary to think of. I mean, MAYBE he'll be okay (as evidenced by the counseling), but do I want to count on it? I mean, this is my LIFE we're talking about. My KIDS lives. So much damage and pain already done. <P>And, oh yes, they ALWAYS get worse, and worse, and worse. There is NO doubt in my mind that if my husband does go off on another one of these "self-hate" missions, it WILL be worse than an affair. I don't know what that IS just yet, just that it will be SOMETHING that he thinks I will never forgive him for and something that will make me hate him and divorce him.<P>My husband is not a bad person, he just has so many problems... He loves his kids dearly, he just can't stand to be around them when they overwhelm him or get on his nerves, it makes him want to run. <P>Thanks for listening. It helps for me to vent and get this stuff out. <P>Tell me again why I should give him another chance?

Hey, honey! I've been wondering about you. YOu can count on my prayers - you know that. They're going up right now for you and your precious family.<P>I'm glad you are coming to grips with the real issues. Yes, I think you have hope - but mainly becuase he is in counseling. Not everyone is a natural parent - and that number 3 kid can make a huge difference. My sister has 3 boys - right now, they are 13, 11, and 10. The third one was a surprise. Imagine - they were 3,1 and newborn at one time. But if he is in counseling, he is getting help, and he can learn to control himself and learn to be a better father. You havent come all this way to give up, ok? He's in counsleing, and you are getting better control of yourself too.<P>I know the others will be here shortly, but I wanted to say a little something. prayers still going. God, fill hbh with your comfort and peace..... <P>{{{{{{{hbh}}}}}}}

HBH,<BR>You just learned something. . something I think you were supposed to. Now you know it, now you can deal with it, now you can help it (to the extent that YOU are able-yes, it's mostly your H's deal).<P>Children are wonderful, but at times can be very stressful on a marriage, or just on a parent. I can remember when my children were younger (around 2 & 3) and bedtime was just horrible, I mean BAD!! It would last hours, of crying, of "Mommy!!", everything & anything. And I remember thinking, I just can't stand this, I can't stand them. . .I only felt this way at bedtime mind you (don't worry, never anything that was harmful to them!). But that's how I felt some nights, then can you imagine the guilt I felt about feeling like that about my OWN children? Mothers are not supposed to feel like that. . .then I talked to my sister about it, she said, yep-and this won't be the last time you feel like that, doesn't mean you don't love them, or are not a good parent.<P>I guess all I'm trying to say is, now that you understand what your H is feeling about your kids, is there anything you can do to help it? Men, I think, often feel a little left out when the kids call, know what I mean? Any way you could let him know how important he is to you & your kids? But especially how important he is to you as a man? Also something that popped into my head is positive reinforcement, every time he does something "good" with or for them, go on & on & on about it like it's the nobel piece winning achievement or something.<P>You are right about none of this being about you. . .it's not really even about your kids either, it's all about your H and it is things that he needs to deal with, but you can encourage, you can listen, you can help in some ways.<P>Hope this is not all babbling, and I'm sure I've missed many of your posts, I don't get on here too much any more. But I just had some feelings about this one & wanted to share. Take anything that's relivant, hope something is!!

HbH...<P>It is more excuses...my H has said the same...I never wanted kids...since A...yet, my sister can remember him telling her he wanted a basketball team and two subs(imagine!)...<P>Children are difficult...WE have also had those feelings of wanting to RUN AWAY! Some days when they are all needy, it is all you can do to stay in the game...What is the difference? We stay in the game...oh, we might need a short time out, but we don't ask to forfeit the game...<P>(I don't know what it is with the sport's metaphor...must be living in a houseful of guys )<P>Anyway...your H has admitted part of what is going on...now he has to dig down and find out why...admitting it is only one part...doing the work to change is the second part....<P>Sitting back and saying "o, woe is me...I'm not cut out for this so I should cut out..." doesn't fix the problem...I hope that your H realizes this and I will be praying for that for you and your children....<P>Cali<P>------------------<BR><I>Live Impeccably In Your Word.<BR>Don't Take Anything Personally.<BR>Make No Assumptions.<BR>Do Your Best Always. </I>

Dear HbH,<P>Glad you had a nice mini vacation but sorry you were hit with such hard reality. Didn't you say your H is seeing a counselor and on some medication to help him? If this is just recent, then maybe he can get better if they can help him work out the dosage and counseling. <P>You said he does love his children just cant seem to tolerate them at the moment. Ok. You know where his problem is, your plus is that he still wants you. You are not stuck in the middle you can be the tie that binds. <P>Keep working with the counselor and see if the meds are helping. Then he needs to make sure he is regular with both. <P>HbH, YOU need to keep loving your children for the both of you. I know this is hard. You said you have been through this before. Is it easier for him when they get older? My H was better with our son after he was about 1 yr. <BR>Up until then he did not like to hear him cry and my little one had a pair of lungs (like H's dad).<P>Get some rest, we'll chat later ok?<P>L. <P>

HbH,<P>Ah! The cycle... So now the question is what are you dealing with? Bi-Polar? ADD? Personality Disorder? Deep Depression? Or just plain mean and abusive? <P>WOW!!!! What a great rant!! And good for you for doing it here instead of to your H. Now if you reread your ranting, there are some great things there. First off, you are getting angry so you are getting closer to breaking out of the victim role. The other is that you have identified all sorts of things that can actually be worked on. And lastly, your H is coming around and wanting to be with you and to work with you. This is not going to be easy but it might be a move in the right direction.<P>It does sound like you are right. In one of his books, Dr. Viscott says that sometimes people cannot bring themselves to leave their spouse. So they have an affair to try to force the spouse to break up the marriage. You may be right that the kids are the reason he does not want to be around. It sounds to me like you have discovered many things about your self and your husband over the last few months. Now you have some things you can tackle and a husband who is willing to work on things. If you want your marriage there are some things you are going to have to do.<P>You are in counseling right? I think you said that. Why not brain storm with your counselor and your husband for ways to restructure your lives so that you both get more of what you need? <P>If your husband does have a problem like Bi-Polar then he will need time to work on himself. You are going to need the time to heal yourself too. Think and brain storm with your counselor and your husband. Find a way to give him the space from the kids that he needs. But then he will need to find ways to be supportive of you since you will have more of the kid burden.<P>Tell your counselor what you have said here. Then get him/her to help you with some strategies. Perhaps you can take the major responsibility for your H for a while. Like maybe give him 6 months to work on himself and for the meds to work. Maybe he can do some things to help YOU. That way you take care of the kids and him. And he takes care of you. The MB concepts say that a couple should spend a minimum of 15 hours a week focused on each other to maintain a healthy relationship. And a couple with a troubled marriage may need to spend as much as 30 hours a week focused on each other. You have already proven that time together works for the two of you. Can you get someone to help with the kids.. Your in-laws? A neighbor teen? This would give you and your H the time together you need right now. <P>You brought up a ton of issues and problems in your venting. Why not list them, find a solution to each one and then work the solutions. <P>I can understand your saying that you don’t know if you can ever trust that he is not going to do something else. And that each time it gets worse. That is part of the abuse cycle. One thing that really helped with my XH that we agreed that when I noticed that the cycle was reaching a point where he was going to blow, I would tell him that he was obviously getting there. He would do something to physical… like run, walk or ride a bike. Then over time he learned that if he did this physical activity on a regular basis, he could avoid blowing up. <P>What I am trying to tell you is that there are techniques that a person can learn to deal with these issues. <P>Plan A, Plan A, Plan A (but gently set some firm limits on his need to work on things with you.)<P>Z<P>------------------<BR>He loves not who does not show love.<BR>----William Shakespeare