since the last time i was here, which i do not even remember when, so much has happened. i am totally confused and sick and depressed. if it weren't for the children, i would probably not be here right now. <BR>my WS has said everyone is gone, but i do not know. i think last time i wrote, i mentioned about the lady helping him build his website and how i remembered about phone calls i had received last year from a daycare in reno. (we live in tulsa) i received them and everytime i answered, a woman would say, oh, i have the wrong number. we are a little daycare in reno and it is sunday night, we don't know anyone in tulsa. this happened at least twice, H said he knew no one in reno, so i dropped it. (this is before i knew about the affair supposedly with another woman that lived very close to us. he finally told me her name, but was it really her, and if it was, is he having an emotional or maybe sexual affair with this woman?) i truly think he is.<BR>this lady owns her own daycare and is starting an online bus doing webdesign. she secretly sent my H a computer for christmas, which supposedly came from an online couple he met in one of his chat rooms. it actually came from this lady, who sent it to this couple, and they sent it to my H.<BR>she didn't want to cause any trouble for our marriage. yeah right. that's what she said about the phone calls too. she admitted to them, and said the same thing.<BR>if she didn't want to cause probs, she should have kept away.<BR>anyways, many said to install iopus.com but H refused, said if i trusted him, we didn't need that. i just kept on living, and doing the best i could. i really thought everything was going to start anew. i turned the memory on his yahoo messenger, actually it is a joint mess.<BR>he said he saw that i had turned it on and so he decided to get revenge. he and this lady, just supposedly a friend, had this conversation that would have turned anyone's stomach. he came home and we fought and i was ready to kick him out. he swore up and down that it was just a fake letter and he did it to teach me a lesson. he said since he never had my full trust since the beginning, i had to give him trust now because he made it his top emotional need. (he has yet to read the full book, i have read it about 5 times and was meeting his emtional needs, except that one, because after finding the naked picture of OW and seeing that letter, my nightmare was not over.)<BR>this lady ordered him some bus cards for his new website for free because we did not have a credit card. she sent him a brand new disk for writing webpages microsoft frontpage. i am not sure how much it cost, but i am sure it was expensive. he said "well she is a true friend, i'm sorry you don't have friends like that. but she is a friend and she is going to stay my friend." i have friends too, some that i would do anything for, but i am not going to send some other married man free gifts and expensive things. talk about fishy. i don't think H would like if i were to spend$100 on some other man just because he was my "friend." bulls*%#! she is also building his webpage for free.<BR>anyways, i had about had enough with the gifts and all, so he finally said he was giving in and getting rid of all his friends and chatrooms and his website. he supposedly got rid of everyone and everything. i told him if he would let me instally iopus, it wouldn't have to be like this, but he said no. he started turning away from me, said he was happy. i knew he wasn't. i took him to the doctor one day and the kids and i sat in the car. we had planned on washing the car after the dr appt and we were going to clean out the glovebox. i started to do it while he was in the dr office and i found a slip for a po box. i blew my cool and gave it to him when he got back in the car. he said it was for his friends to write him when they moved and disconnected their email service. what a bunch of crap.<BR>he wanted me to reward him for not going through with it, because he thought about getting one, but didn't. yeah right.<BR>things fell back into their normal unhappy routine. i kept reading the book and meeting the emotional needs, except for the trust. (he stays on the computer a long time while i am at work and says he is just gambling for fun or looking at motorcycles) but, i have no proof. this is where the trust is still coming into it. i have no proof that he is doing what he says he is doing.<BR>a couple weeks ago, i went to vegas to try on bridesmaid dresses for my sister's wedding in november. i did not want to go because of all this mess, and he was very distant. i just had a feeling. well, i went and came back. a few days after i returned, i found a receipt for the airport at 7am on the day i was to return. my plane didn't come in until 140pm so i lost it once again. i called him at work and told him to pack his bags. he said the receipt was from there but he had taken off of work and went there to check what time i arrived. i had previously written all the info on a piece of paper before i left. so i don't know whether to believe this bull or not. he said he was so excited to see me, but he had been distant before i left, and when i returned, until i told him to move out.<BR>then he was all nice and wonderful.<BR>my grandparents were here, they flew back with me from vegas and i told my grandma. my mother had told her that the day i left, a cab pulled into our driveway and a woman got out. she then got back in the car on the morning of my arrival. every airline has flights leaving for reno around 8am on friday mornings, and the receipt was for 7am. could have very easily been her. my mom has a history of not telling the truth so i don't know whether to believe her or not.<BR>today is my first day back on the computer. i was scared to come in here and the computer just downright made me sick. the whole thought of the internet and all the lies that took place here just kept me from coming in here.<BR>i read our old email and i found out that H has a new email address, which he said he got rid of the others.<BR>so.....help me please. my counselor thinks he is lying and that i should leave him because he is still lying, refuses to go to counseling, or even read the book. (he has read maybe 1-2 chapters.) i just wanted him to read the 4 rules rotection, time, honesty, and care. he highlighted the parts about love busters because i keep telling him about all the female friends he has. he has told me he will have any friends he chooses and i will not dictate who or what he can or cannot do with them.<P>so please help me. i am at a loss.....i want the computer to go, because i do not honestly have any idea what is going on.<BR>thanks, bluegirl

Install Iopus on stealth mode immediately.<P>You need to know. And you need your H to stop making you think you are crazy. That is how this game is played.<BR>Get the information now. You already know it in your heart. Get the proof.<P>

And one more thing.....while you gather this information, don't look at any of it for a week. Just let Opus report. Then a week from now look at it.<P>Otherwise you may react to something you see too quickly. A week will give you a true picture of what he is up to.

bluegirl,<P>The last time you asked this question I gave you exactly the same answer I'll give you this time. Install iopus in stelth mode on your husband's computer. DO NOT TELL HIM IT'S INSTALLED.<P>If I remember correctly, the last time I gave you this advise you showed him my posting and he came online and chewed me out royally for advising you to find out what was going on in your life. I know that you may want to be totally open with your husband. But this is back firing on you right now.<P>I like the idea of letting the software log his activities for a week before you look. And before you read the logs plan what you are going to do if they contain stuff that will upset you. Maybe even have someone you can trust be with you with them having the job of keeping you from blowing your top. If what you suspect is going on, it is going to be very hard to deal with. <P>One of the things that you might want to do when you do check the logs is to use them to stop all of the lying. Nothing brings out the truth and clears the air like absolute proof. Maybe we could help you here decide on a course of action.<P>If he had nothing to hide he would not be hiding anything. His tacktic of turning it around to make you look like the stupid bad guy is a normal one. My XH used it all the time when I found things like love letters and condoms. They were all my imagination. So far, all the things that your H told you have turned out to be lies. The things he told us here on MB when he was cussing me out now turn out to be lies. It was obvious then then he was hiding the truth. So why would you believe him now?<P>You have every right to know what he is up to because you have the right to make an informed decision about your own life. <P>Z<P>------------------<BR>He loves not who does not show love.<BR>----William Shakespeare

Living with a cybercheater, I gotta agree. Install some monitoring software and put it on stealth mode. I installed spector one day and checked it the follwoing morning. Oh, how I wished I had found this site and mabe waited longer to record what was going on. Recording for a week and then looking is a great idea.<P>Confront him with the evidence and make him face the music. <P>Bluebird <A HREF="http://www.bustedyouonline.com" TARGET=_blank>http://www.bustedyouonline.com</A>

Any news Bluegirl?<BR>

<p>[This message has been edited by friend=ally,supporter (edited August 27, 2001).]

friend..... This is a most interesting post, I am inclined to believe you (as a ws, I figure I have the experience to say that). However you (and I am your age, so I guess have the requisite life experiences to have an informed opinion), have sorely misunderstood a couple things. First, regardless of how you choose to characterize it, you have had an ea with this womans husband. ANYTIME emotional; resources are expended on someone other than your spouse, it is an emotional affair...period. It may suit your sense of morality to call it something else, but a rose by any other name is well... you know. If in fact you really were motivated to mentor this man (and I am willing to believe that), then at your age you should have the wisdom to understand this must include a relationship (and full disclosure of any interactions, all emails, content of all phone conversations) with his wife. And if she objected, you STOP regardless of what her husband wants (that is their problem), until they resolve their issues (either reach agreement, or divorce). The phone works both ways, you could have called her anytime and made these disclosures. Instead you conspired with her H to keep them a secret, you had absolutely no right to do so. Now if you want to have an affair with her H, that is another story, and your actions understandable. But to blame her, for your misbehaviour (or her reasonable suspicions) is ludicrous.<P>It may be she is a controlling abusive sob, but if so, her husband needs to deal with it, stand up to her, and require her cooperation with stuff like MB. If he won't, he is as much of the problem as she is, and so are you. In addition the tone of your post (assuming the facts are true) was aggressive, and not at all concilliatory, although I do recognize your willingness to reveal your side. I hear no compassion for this woman, who by your own admission know only through her husband. If you were all that concerned about him/her and their marriage, methinks you would have made different choices. Likewise the digs about web design, and free computers were just that digs. Folks who willingly give things (or of themselves) do not rub anothers nose in it. I suspect you know you behaved improperly, and are quarrelsome enough to choose this public forum to chastise this woman, abusing her even more under the guise of caring. I for one am not impressed, you should apologize to her. It is good that you are honoring the no contact, I hope you continue to do so, and I hope you have told no lies. And bluebell do not be dismayed by this, she has forced your hand, time for you and H to have some very frank discussion and set some very real boundaries, including extraordinary precautions. If in fact you are domineering, that will have to change. This ow may not have sought any more contact than she has mentioned with your H, but it was an affair nonetheless, she had no right or status to "protect" your husband from you. Nor am I saying she is evil either, perhaps just misguided, a little selfish, and definitely full of herself....but aren't we all sometimes. It is very easy to get caught up in protecting someone from their spouse. I have (did) done the same with my ow, but an affair is still an affair, and it has consequences. My advice, don't get in a fight with this ow (if you feel like you might), she will either figure this out or not, and be a better or lesser person or not, is her life.....concentrate on yours. Good luck to everyone in this little corner of peyton place [the first prime time soap opera for all you youngsters out there....that would be anyone under 40 ]