The emotional estrangement with my W began in November, and I started working on myself, making the necessary changes and plan A'ing back then (although I didn't know it). I didn't learn of her A until March and didn't confront her about it until the end of April. What I've realized is this is a marathon, not a sprint. I thought the marathon started in November, but it didn't start until d-day, and that was only 3-1/2 months ago. That's not very long by MB standards. The advantage for me is I've had 9 months to work on my changes and they are now permanent. My W doesn't see that now or can't because of the "fog", but IF she comes out of it, I'll be ahead of the game. I just hope I can hold out until the "fog" lifts. Even if it doesn't, I'll still be a better person for it and somewhere down the road someone will reap the benefits of the changes I've made. I only hope it's my W because she deserves the best "me" I can be.<P>sad dad <p>[This message has been edited by sad dad (edited August 17, 2001).]

very good! Thank you for your thoughts. You're exactly right. I was thinking today, I'm becoming the best me possible, and someone will have the privelege of having me as their wife. I hope it's my H, but he may be stupid and give me up. Thank you for reminding me that it is a marathon. I need that!!!<P>ha-ha.. LOL see I'm here again - no work, no sleep tee-hee.... <p>[This message has been edited by Faith1 (edited August 17, 2001).]

Same determination I have come to as well...BTW my d-day was April 25--4 months ago...I wonder if we follow similar timelines?<P><BR>Cali<P>------------------<BR><I>Live Impeccably In Your Word.<BR>Don't Take Anything Personally.<BR>Make No Assumptions.<BR>Do Your Best Always. </I>

Faith1,<P>I thought I told you to take a break from this website. Who am I to talk? I guess that's the pot calling the kettle black. Seriously, this is a marathon. I just wish I knew how long it is. <P>cali,<P>D-day was April 30th for me and things have only got worse.<P>sad dad<p>[This message has been edited by sad dad (edited August 17, 2001).]

<P>run, Forrest, run!!!

Sad Dad, Faith and Cali,<P>I would like to join your group. D-day 1 was September 14, 2000 when we began MC and my WS admitted an affair (but lied about it). D-day 2 was April 24, 2001, when he admitted, after moving out for 3 weeks in March that he had had an EA/PA with an employee. We were finally able to remove her from our lives (worked out a severance agreement and avoided a sexual harassment suit) 2 weeks ago.<P>Unfortunately, I did not find this site until most of the really, really ugly stuff was over. My H was a textbook WS in the fog for 18 months (the EA started in January 2000 and the PA in April 2000). I was lucky. When she told him she would not be #2 in August 2000, he ran. However, they continued to be "friends" - continued flirting and discussing what a horrible wife I was. When she started dating, he became jealous. He moved out to show her he was serious about leaving me. By that time, she was "involved" with someone else. He came home but was not sure he wanted our marriage. The mental habit that our marriage was over and I was to blame (used to justify his actions) was very strong.<P>Because I had not yet found this site, I also failed to execute a perfect plan A. Although counseling was very helpful in working through my own issues, I had no idea how damaging my angry outbursts were. And, Sad Dad, I am also a controller. H is passive/agressive - a conflict avoider. With much effort, I stopped all attempts to control him in any way. My only angry outbursts since April have related to getting the little witch out of our lives.<P>By the time H confessed, he had already decided he did not want her and needed to have her out of his life. He asked for my help. He simply could not get over her while she was still in daily contact with him. I first suggested that they simply stop discussing anything unrelated to business. That didn't work. I next suggested that I speak with her and explain how important it was to our marriage for her to find another job. I had my H's full support. We had lunch in May. I gave her 5 job leads with very good companies and offered finacial support while she devoted her full efforts to finding a job. That didn't work. I next suggested that he stop working with her - let his partner handle any necessary business communication. That didn't work.<P>I finally had a melt down in July and went into a very major depression. My H actually cared! For the first time, he gave me access to his voice mail and demonstrated how to check his cell phone. He also began telling me about all contact.<P>I told him I needed to go to Plan B, explaining that I just could not go on this way. I explained that Plan B was not a punishment, it was a way for me to remove myself from the situation to preserve my love for him.<P>To his credit and my great relief, he decided to try to save our marriage. Firing her exposed him to a suit and the prospect of losing his business. But together, we found a way.<P>We met with her and again explained that we were trying to save our marriage, that we had much work to do, but that at the moment, her continued presence at the company was our greatest obstacle. She agreed to leave in exchange for a 2-month severance package. For the next 2 days, H and OP met and negotiated (it almost killed me but I put on my best plan A face and was supportive). She then waited another 8 days before signing the agreement, putting my H through h###.<P>All of this was a blessing in disguise. H finally saw her more unattractive side (i.e. manipulative, immature, self-absorbed). He actually told me last week that he could not understand how he could have fallen for her.<P>I have learned so much about myself and my H since September. I now understand how selfish I have been, I now understand the mistakes I have made and most importantly, I now understand and empathize with my H's feelings. I am learning to truly love myself and him.<P>I realize that the race has just begun. However, I now have the right trainer to make it to the finish line. I believe we all do.<P>Sorry for the long post, but I wanted you all to know that there is hope for all of us.<P>Newwoman<P>

Sad dad,<P>Prior to my D-day, H and I acknowledged that there were problems in our marriage. I tried to make things right. I didn't. I didn't know how to meet his needs. The things I was doing to meet his needs were things that I desired and not things that HE desired. Anyway, d-day comes and shortly after I am given the Harley material. I start Plan A. It was about three months later where our recovery began. He said that he had noticed things about me during this time. I couldn't really tell because he was still involved with OW. He was trying to decide if my changes were permanent or just a ploy. It is possible that your wife "sees" your changes. She may not be ready to do anything about them. Keep the good Plan A up!<BR>You are right about becoming a better person. That's exactly how I felt.

newwoman,<P>Thanks! Every time I read a story like yours, it gives me reason to hope and strength to carry on.<P>cleopatra,<P>I think my W does notice my changes, but questions if they're permanent or doesn't want to admit they are because that would take away her justification for the A. She's been talking about D since shortly after d-day (April 30th), yet she's taken no action towards it. There's got to be a reason for that. I don't know what it is and I can't waste time trying to figure it out. She hasn't filed and that's what matters.<P>sad dad

You are right. You can't waste time thinking about a D. My H also mentioned D many times between d-day and recovery. He truly did not think it could work. I refused to discuss D. I told him that I didn't want that and knew that things could work. I didn't argue those points. I just stated them and let it go at that. <BR>He did read SAA and I think that this helped in his decision to terminate the A.

Sad Dad,<P>My H talked about divorce, denied there was someone else, just didn't want to be married any more, just didn't love me, we were just incompatible, our marriage was dead, our marriage was not right from the beginning, he never really felt that "in your gut I want to be with her" passion for me, the kids will recover from divorce, he just wants to be my friend, can't we just end this in a civil way, I love you but am not in love with you - all the typical WS script. He was actually surprised when I told him I would not make it easy, if he wanted a divorce, fine but I would never agree to end our marriage. He did everything he could to force me to make the decision to end our marriage. I didn't and it has paid off. I finally have my husband back - not that alien I have been living with for 18 months. Cleopatra is right. Just ignore it.

Thanks so much to all of you. I have a little more hope now. <P>Of course my wife and I are just out of the blocks(4 weeks) so I have a long time to go. Yesterday we talked for the first time in 2 weeks and she said <B>she thought I should file papers</B> and that a divorce was "what's best." Not that she WANTS one, just that it's best. 4 weeks ago she didn't know what she wanted. I doubt that in 4 weeks she dealt with all the issues she has in order to make a clear decision about divorce.<P>I think having read a lot of stories like your's have made me see that just because she says she thinks a divorce is best, doesn't mean that she knows for sure. Until she files I guess I have time to implement the changes and make them permanent. I guess a marathon will make that easier. Hard to make changes permanent in only a couple of months.<P>Thanks again to all of you!

newwoman & cleopatra,<P>I feel like we're the only ones posting this morning.<BR>My W has brought up D 5 or 6 times since d-day, and I have made it clear that it is not what I want and I would like to work on our marriage. I told her that I understand this is how she feels, and I respect her decision, but I do not agree with it and I will not help her with it. She's obviously looking for me to share the guilt with her, but I won't. She expected me to sit down with her, work out all the details, then go to a lawyer, fill out the paperwork and tie the whole thing up with a nice, pretty bow. <P>The last time we talked about it, I told her that the lawyers can handle the details, the first thing she needs to do is file. I also told her I would fight her on custody. She didn't expect that and I think it shook her up. She said she won't put our daughter through a custody battle, so we can just continue living together as is. Doesn't make alot of sense to me. A custody battle will affect a three year old, but a D won't?. That was 3 weeks ago and it hasn't been brought up since.<P>sad dad<p>[This message has been edited by sad dad (edited August 18, 2001).]

For what it is worth I have said all these things to, to my wife. I kinda hoped she would throw me out, but instead she has confused me by changing. I too wonder if it is permanent, she has relapses, and there is a very hard (controlling) side lurking about somewhere inside. But she says she does not like that person, and is gonna get rid of her forever. What I am saying is this is what impacts me, is what I see, all the words mean nothing, it is her actions that I see, and I must see them for a very long time. Along the way each day is a new slate, different stuff happens, a step forward, a step back, but so far progress has net been forward. You will be able to gauge your success similarly, by our actions. Don't so much look at what we say, but what we do. If we start talking more with you, hanging out more with you, that is a good sign. If we remain distant, and cold, is almost a certainty the affair is still continuing, and/or you are LB way to much. Good luck.

Dear SNL,<P>I so appreciate your input on this board.<P>Obviously, I cannot speak for your wife. However, I hope you will give her the benefit of the doubt.<P>Most of the huge mistakes I have made in our marriage were made from ignorance. I have learned so much since September. I never will or want to be the person I was before, no just for our marriage, but for me.<P>Sure, the imeptus for change was my fear of losing him. However, the more I learned about myself and my H, the more I wanted to change both myself and our relationship not because of fear, but because I finally began to understand what loving someone really means. I finally came to the conclusion that if our relationship did not survive, we could go on, but we should both be happy. I very honestly and sincerely want my H to be happy.<P>I have set him free. I have requested, however, that he at least attempt to recover our marriage without the influence of the OP before making that decision. He has agreed.<P>We are now 2 weeks and 1 day of no contact. Boy does this feel good. I am more motivated than ever to be the best wife and partner I can.<P>Tomorrow morning I hope to do a thread, before our 3 children wake up, describing the changes I have made and asking for opinions about how I may improve. I hope you will give me your insights.<P>Newwoman

snl,<P>My W is not cold, but still very distant. She spends very little time with me alone. The A is continuing, I just don't know to what degree. There's nothing Ican do about that. I don't LB much at all. I never initiate any talks about A, OM, divorce or reconcilliation. When she brings up D, I just reiterate that it's not what I want.<P>If you have the chance, please read my thread on "the lesser of two evil's". I'd be interested in hearing your thoughts.<P>sad dad