I read your post to cybil...and I have a ?, but didn't want to horn in on her post...<P>My H no longer wants to be married...he has said he doesn't want to be around me...he 'moved' out at the end of June, but really only slept at 'his spot.' Since our trip to Vegas the 1st week in August, he has been home...but, that could be because I begged, pleaded, cried...etc...<P>The worst thing he can say about me is that I don't listen to him...he also said he didn't believe that I really loved him, but that I loved the idea of him...that I just want a H, just want him to be around for the boys...(we've been married 12 years on Sunday).<P>In filling out EN questionnaire...I got pretty good marks for meeting most of his EN's except affection and converation...I think I am improving at conversation...BUT AM CLUELESS as to affection...I tried cards and emails and letters...they irritated him and he told me to stop...I quit saying <I>I love you</I>...cause that bugged him too...I have even stopped trying to kiss him...I got tired of him pulling away...<P>We are still intimate...2-3 times per week...and I know that he feels that is one way I connect best with him... so to make a long story longer...<P>What ACTIONs could your wife do to MAKE you know she loved you? I know SadNLonely has posted the same thing...and other WS's...they don't believe BS love them...they felt so alone and 'out-of-love' before the A....<P>WHAT ACTIONS WOULD MAKE YOU BELIEVE US?<P>Thanks,<P>Cali<P><P>------------------<BR><I>Live Impeccably In Your Word.<BR>Don't Take Anything Personally.<BR>Make No Assumptions.<BR>Do Your Best Always. </I>

cali,<P>i am not on nearly as much during the weekend so bear with me ok?<P>first i would question the answers he gave on the ENQ, my wife wrote all kinds of stuff but acted contrary and unresponsive when treated in the manner she described.<P>she wrote what she was conditioned to write, what her dad maybe would have wanted her to write. anyway look more at him and what he was getting out of the A. its a big clue!<P>for me, the actions are very obvious, she had decided very early in our marriage that all i wanted from her was sex so she stopped having it. then without sex every act of affection became a glaring reminder that we were not having sex, so out the window that went. <P>so for 10 years she and had sex less then 3-4 times a year even went 2 years without all together. and she left me emotionally for my kids. i feel as though she had an A with my kids (how sad is that ) she was as unavailble to me as if she had run off with another man.<P>she allowed herself to just be sloppy and didnt really attend to her appearance, baggy saggy clothes all the time, sweats before i ever got home etc...<P>constant challenges for control, and abusive behavior that crushed my spirit completely.<P>so when i put SF, Affection, attractive spouse, admiration, domestic support. it is what i wanted. <P>and still do! she is better at all these things, especially attractive spouse and domestic support, she still is relatively doing the bare min on sf, affection, admiriation..<P>and to be honest i feel very alone most of the time. i wish she would clue into that. i am trying to be very patient but having done this for over a year now i am growing tired...sigh<P>------------------<BR>in loving service<BR>chaz

Thanks CB...<P>Do you have any specifics that you'd 'secretly' like your wife to do? Things that, if she did them, you would KNOW she loved you?<P>I know you are not my H, but your answers could push me in the right directions...<P>BTW...sex is really NOT an issue...I am open to his inventiveness...and have never turned him down....(this made problems between him and OW...).<P>But...how can she let you know she admires you? What are 'affectionate' things she can do for you?<P>This is my struggle...I am a great cook...I cook his favorites...I make sure his favorite drinks are in the fridge...I haven't LB'd about his CD addiction...(I've even contributed to it)...I have listened to his music, read Entertainment magazine, etc. so that I can talk with him about it...I'm just not sure what other things I could be doing...<P>Thanks, <P>Cali

cali, didnt you just go to bed?<P>anyway, the card is nice id like it, but its a card and i know there is a huge difference between how i take that kind of thing and my wife. she would save it an re read it and think of it, i would look at read it say thank and pitch it in the trash. not that i wouldnt like getting it but make sure you have the right idea about how it will be taken.<P>back to your question of me.<P>affection,<P>i like to be met, when you hear the car, meet me at the door no big production necessary, just be interested that i am home, same thing if you see me coming at the grocery or the mall, make the effort to meet me coming even just a little would do it, one thing that ow use to do and though it sounds sexual it really wasnt, it was really very nurturing and made me feel very secure, she would rest her hand right "THERE!" no rubbing or grabbing but resting, completely comfortable just having it there. it was really a powerful thing.<P>let him catch you looking at him, in that flirty kind of way, ask him for his opinion on what your doing, all the time what do you think of this skirt, and when he say looks good say great i was hoping you would like, when he say its ok say darn i was hoping you would like it, when he say's um well i dont know say "let me go change!" this is a backdoor to admiration, your giving him influence in your life which shows trust and admiration along with a desire to please him!!! big big admiration points!!<P>i hope that starts you thinking!<P>------------------<BR>in loving service<BR>chaz

Yes...I did just 'go' to bed...had a 'busy' night too ...<P>Thanks, your reply has got me thinkin'...as for card, he is a 'saver.' I know he likes them...he just doesn't give them...in fact, we both got tattoos on Father's Day...a Chinese character that means <I>crisis as opportunity</I>...it was from a card I gave him before we were married and he had kept it...<P>Thanks so much...<P>Cali

Ya know this en stuff is complicated. It is like having 3 wishes from the genie. The first big one was to stop critizing me. W is one who thinks she is just being helpful, she has struggled with this, but is making progress, I see her "biting" her tounge all the time. Finally I told her (just a few minutes ago actually), how absolutely wonderful it is to not be walking on egg shells anymore. She still has problems though with anything doing with A, or ow. LB like crazy, just can't seem to control herself. It just makes her crazy that I could love ow, and still not think ill of her now (she hates her guts, calls her lots of bad names etc.... I tell her if that is true, I am no better, so why do you love me?). It will be a long time before I emotionally trust my w, that she is not just in this for her benefit. When she critizes ow, she is just telling me she thinks I am an idiot, and too stupid to recognize the good qualities in another person. This does not make me feel too good.<P>Another need is conversation, I haven't talked more than 5 minutes with my wife in last 5 years, cause she turns it all personal. If your opinion differs from hers, she views it as an attack on her. Finally I just decided the hell with her and found someone else to talk with. She is trying to meet that need too, but it is not just doing it, you have to want to, and have an informed opinion etc. As you may have surmised I like to talk and reason stuff out, and discuss, and do it vigorously too sometimes [spirited ]. Those are a couple things. Not LB is really important, angry outbursts, selfish demands, disrespectful judgements etc.

just want to say thanks, chaz and snl. very valuable info!!!!